Talk:Alexander James Adams/Archive 1

Alexander James Adams update

FYI, Alec's wife has told me he's done some interviews. IF they get published or he puts info on one of his websites, then we will have a verifiable source to rename this page to "Alexander James Adams" and include the transition. (For the biography of a living person, something Alec put on his own website would satisfy the criteria.) JenKilmer (talk) 02:13, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for keeping up on this, Jen. TechBear (talk) 14:30, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Not that it matters at this point, but A.J. Adams did a Q & A at Rainfurrest 2008 and I recorded it (with permission) and posted it on my internet show Pacific Fen Spotlight. In this recording, Alec states that Heather Alexander was transgender and that he and she are one and the same. Q & A with Alexander James Adams @ Pacific Fen Spotlight Tenor1411 (talk) 08:55, 16 January 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tenor1411 (talk • contribs) 08:50, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Alexander James Adams article deletion

The Alexander James Adams article has been deleted due to lack of notabilitity and/or verifiability requirements. Appropriate sources do not yet exist for Alec - there are blog entries and a few performer bios (Gig Harbor Renfaire, Eurofurence) and that's about it.

Unless there's something I've overlooked? Thoughts? JenKilmer 19:15, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Finngall directed a question to the WikiProject GLBT Studies group and got some good responses. Check here. TechBear 19:38, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks - that is helpful :) I have a saved copy of the deleted page for later. At the moment, it appears we are waiting for one of the following:

1. Alec becomes notable and verifiable in his own right, separate from Heather, or
2. Alec announces that he and Heather are one and the same, preferably via a verifiable source.

JenKilmer 04:55, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

If Heather Alexander is notable, then so is Alec. There are photos of Alec around, including http://www.eurofurence.org/EF13/gfx/goh/alec-2.jpg and http://www.flickr.com/photos/56928511@N00/2066625636/in/set-72157603300605688/

And in addition to the photo in Heather's Wiki article, a quick Google search will reveal others, such as http://www.orycon.org/orycon28/files/images/HA-RFs.jpg

I would suggest that anybody who has doubts about Alec and Heather being the same person look closely at the two photos. Ignore the hairstyle and clothing, look at the shape and arrangement of features. This is the same person, chin slightly enhanced by the side effects of hormone treatments. Also, anyone who has seen both Heather and Alec perform will have little or no doubts. The manic fiddling style is unmistakable. I can understand Wikipedia's reluctance to say potentially defamatory things about a living person, but leaving aside Alec's slight coyness about the connect between Heather and Alec, he has an awful lot of fans who pay good money to see him perform on the basis that they will get essentially the same quality and material from Alec as they have been accustomed to get from Heather. Bgoldnyxnet (talk) 04:24, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that looking at photos and drawing conclusions violates the No Original Research prohibition, as does asking the fan base directly. Until and unless there is a verifiable source of information that meets the Wikipedia standards for biographies of living people, Alec can not "inherit" Heather's notability. TechBear (talk) 05:41, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

is http://elfs.livejournal.com/608500.html enough? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.2.67.154 (talk) 01:06, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Just wanted to add that Alec could provide a verifiable source if he wanted. One of the verifiable sources that is acceptable for a biography of a living person is the living person's own statements on his own website. If Alec clarified the transition on his site, or in a review or interview, then we could update Wiki accordingly. Alec has not yet chosen to clarify the transition.... JenKilmer (talk) 06:51, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Changes?

Is there anything on [1] that should be added here yet, or should we wait for more information? Chip Unicorn 23:12, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

We will need to deal with it at some point. The real question is, do we do two articles (Heather Alexander and Alexander James Adams), or one with a redirect? Personally I can't help but think separate articles would make the pronouns easier to keep straight, not to mention the name :)

I haven't found a policy about gender changes in the Wikipedia Biography guidlines. I have found one article, Arn Saba, where an author published several works before changing sex - but hasn't published since. In this case, we know that Alec will be recording and touring. In time, there will be fans of Alec who didn't follow Heather...

There's also the fact that the change hasn't been announced as such officially. So short of blog posts or fan sites we don't have a specific source at this time. JenKilmer 18:53, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I made the edit this morning which you changed... I like your wording better, and yes, it does better match the official statement at this time. My only concern was that it sounded too morbid as it was. (And I "edited" this page, in so far as you can edit something while forgetting to save the edits. Sorry...) 66.92.130.55 03:15, 11 April 2007 (UTC) (aeto, who doesn't have an account on here.)

That's cool, aeto - I agree that the version previous to you sounded morbid. :) The reason I changed it was to match the sources we currently have (Alec and his manager on the Heatherlands site). Wikipedia wants to avoid original research or being a primary source of material, as is appropriate for an encyclopedia...and since this is the biography of a living person, we want to be extra-careful to stick to the known, published info. I hope this makes sense :) JenKilmer 04:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

There is a precedent in handling gender transitions: Wendy Carlos. Therefore, the redirection of "Heather Alexander" to "Alexander James Adams" as you're doing is correct. Bravo Jen! ==Figmo (talk) 17:50, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Redirect

Would it be appropriate to redirect from Adams here? That way, any links to Adams would wind up pretty much in the intended place.--uɐɔlnʌɟoʞǝɹɐs 19:35, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Until such time as there are reliable sources linking Alec and Heather, it would not be appropriate. And until Alec becomes notable in his own right (or notable through his link with Heather,) there is really no way that an article about Alec would pass another challenge; the last one was deleted. TechBear (talk) 20:02, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I understand the lack of sources, and Adams' desire not to make a big deal out of it. I'm just saying that since the lede here states that Adams is carrying on Heather's music, having the redirect might be appropriate.--uɐɔlnʌɟoʞǝɹɐs 20:15, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I understand what you are saying. That might be acceptable. TechBear (talk) 20:23, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

(Random note: still annoyed at having lived near Seattle for 7 years and not seen Heather perform once...)--uɐɔlnʌɟoʞǝɹɐs 20:48, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

If you are still in the Seattle area, stop by Norwescon on Easter weekend. The convention's website lists Alec as one of the performers; he usually does one formal concert and sometimes drops by informally at the filk events. Otherwise, he usually hangs out in the Vendor's area if you want to buy albums or get an autograph, both his own and Heather's. TechBear (talk) 21:55, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Nope, Maine now. Best I can do is hope for Arisia or a lottery win. :-)--uɐɔlnʌɟoʞǝɹɐs 21:58, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Since nobody seems to have a major problem with it, I've created the redirect. If anyone does think it was a bad idea, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion.--uɐɔlnʌɟoʞǝɹɐs 15:34, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Hey there, No problems with a redirect here, but for me personally as a transperson, my gut reaction is that [Heather Alexander] Should redirect to [Alexander James Adams]. Seeing the old name redirect from the new one is just something I find a little disturbing. ;) I may talk to AJA and see if he would like to create reliable sources for this to happen. I'm 99% certain that he'd much prefer either Heather Alexander as a sub-entry of his wiki page, or as a seperate page entirely from his, and I'd like to see what could be done to have the wiki entry not actually make him uncomfortable. Anyone else have any input on this?Ardyn (talk) 08:53, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Alec has been asked before about creating a reliable source that could be used in Wikipedia, as at least one of this article's editors is a titled member of the Heatherlands (ie organizers of his fan club.) His response has been that he would rather keep his transition as low profile as possible, and the official story remains that Heather has gone through the mists into the Land of Faerie. I can certainly understand that position, as he wants to be known as a great singer, songwriter and entertainer; publicity like this could easily overshadow his accomplishments. On the other hand, his first formal concert as A. J. Adams at Norwescon 2007 was very well received by fans, so maybe now he would be willing to put some stuff on the record. TechBear (talk) 14:40, 30 January 2008 (UTC)