Talk:Al Ries

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COI edits

The new sources added [1] by the marketing representative for Ries look to be all pr material. This article needs independent, reliable sources instead. --Ronz (talk) 22:40, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Hello Ronz -- I am not sure about the previous editors on this page but I personally have been paid by Al Ries' company., Ries & Ries, to work to improve this page to meet Wikipedia's policies. As Mr. Ries is getting advanced in age, it is the family's hope to improve the quality and remove the tag placed at the top of the page. Working towards that goal, I have carefully written the following draft with what I believed that Wikipedia would consider reliable sources. I hope it is satisfactory. I have focused my efforts in removing material that may be seen as promotional and adding reliable references to the material already there. I hope that you will take some of your valuable time to review this draft, modify it as you see fit, and publish it. If there is anything I can do to help in this process, please don't hesitate to ask. I will check this page regularly and hope for your assistance. Thank you so much for your consideration! JasmineBrock (talk) 04:00, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know.

Just looking over the author/publisher/title of the refs, I'm cringing at what I see. This will take some work, and it would help to get others involved. --Ronz (talk) 05:00, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

The two obituaries appear to have been written by staff writers. That's a relief. --Ronz (talk) 05:04, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

I was very careful in crafting this draft. I think you will find the most grand statements are supported by very reliable newspapers and magazines. I hope you will scratch a little deeper. I am still hopeful you will find everything is as it should be. JasmineBrock (talk) 05:32, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

I'm sure you and Ries would like to get the resolved promptly. I suggest you use the information I left in the welcome message on your talk page to get some assistance. --Ronz (talk) 17:22, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the reliability of Georgia Trend, a local business magazine, for verifying "an industry standard". It's also eight years old, so presenting it in current tense is very questionable. I'm not sure if Wikipedia's voice should be used. If it is indeed such a standard, better sources should be able to be found. Without a better source, I'm not sure it belongs in the lede. --Ronz (talk) 17:55, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

I removed "an industry standard". Is it necessary? JasmineBrock (talk) 15:59, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

I cannot access the ref from The Atlanta Constitution. --Ronz (talk) 03:28, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I clipped the references from Newspapers.com. It should work for you now. Thank you so much for taking a deeper look. JasmineBrock (talk) 15:59, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. The content on coining the term "positioning" doesn't appear to agree with the content at Positioning_(marketing)#Origins. --Ronz (talk) 17:20, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

@Ronz: I have removed the portions claiming that they coined the term and replaced it with "resurrected" to match more closely to how the page on positioning describes the history. I have also included the statement that "some scholars credit David Ogilvy with developing the positioning concept". Is this better? JasmineBrock (talk) 09:28, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm not sure how to do it, but we should get some help with this.

Since I keep forgetting about it: While obituaries tend to be poor sources, the one Trout is written by a staff writer from The Washington Post. --Ronz (talk) 15:50, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean by "how to do it". What kind of help do we need? JasmineBrock (talk) 07:49, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Additional editors to review the proposed changes. --Ronz (talk) 18:42, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Extended content

Al Ries Education DePauw University (BA, 1950) Years active 1950–present Honours Marketing Hall of Fame Website www.ries.com Al Ries is an American marketing professional and author. He is also the co-founder and chairman of the Atlanta-based consulting firm Ries & Ries with his partner and daughter, Laura Ries. Along with Jack Trout, Ries is credited with resurrecting the idea of "positioning" in the field of marketing, and authored Positioning: The Battle For Your Mind in 1981. References Early life and education Ries graduated from DePauw University in 1950. He accepted a position with the advertising department of General Electric before founding his own advertising agency in New York City, Ries Cappiello Colwell. Jack Trout joined the agency in 1967 beginning a business and writing partnership with Ries that lasted several decades. References Career Ries and Trout are often credited with developing the concept of product or brand positioning in the late-1960s with the publication of a series of articles, followed by a book. Ries and Trout, both former advertising executives, published articles about positioning in Industrial Marketing in 1969 and Advertising Age in 1972. However some scholars credit David Ogilvy with developing the positioning concept in the mid-1950s. By the early 1970s, positioning had become a popular word with marketers, especially those in advertising and promotion. In 1981, Ries and Trout published Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind. According to historian Stephen A. Fox, although Ries and Trout may not have invented it, they "resurrected the concept and made it their trademark." In 1970s, Ries was chairman of the advertising agency Ries Cappiello Colwell, Inc. He was also part of the affiliated public relations firm Ries and Geltzer. Ries and Trout later formed a marketing strategy firm, Trout & Ries. In 1994, Ries founded Ries & Ries with his daughter Laura, a recent graduate of Northwestern University and formerly of TBWA. The American Marketing Association, NY Chapter announced Al Ries as one of the 2016 inductees to the Marketing Hall of Fame. References Bibliography Focus: The Future of Your Company Depends on it. Harper Collins. 1996. ISBN 9780887307645. With Jack Trout Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind. Warner Books. 1981. ISBN 9780446308007. Marketing Warfare. McGraw Hill Professional. 1997. ISBN 9780071371124. Bottom-up Marketing. McGraw-Hill. 1989. ISBN 9780070527331. Horse Sense. McGraw-Hill. 1991. ISBN 9780452267640. The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing. Profile Books Limited. 1994. ISBN 9781861976109. With Laura Ries 11 Immutable Laws of Internet Branding. Profile Books Limited. 2001. ISBN 9781861976000. The 22 Immutable Laws of Branding. HarperBusiness. 1998. ISBN 9780887309373. The Fall of Advertising and the Rise of PR. Harper Collins. 2002. ISBN 9780060081980. The Origin of Brands. Harper Collins. 2004. ISBN 9780060570149. War in the Boardroom. Harper Collins. 2009. ISBN 9780061973130. References External links Official website, Ries & Ries Category:Advertising theorists Category:Branding theorists Category:DePauw University alumni Category:Living people Category:Marketing people Category:Marketing theorists Category:Year of birth missing (living people)

Request 1

It may be helpful to read the section before for some context. The short version is that I have conflict of interest and I would like to suggest the following changes. I will break them up into small digestible chunks for ease of reviewing.

1. Al Ries is a marketing professional and author."
   • Add "American": "Al Ries is an American marketing professional and author.
2. Along with Jack Trout, Ries is crediting with coining the term "positioning", as related to the field of marketing,
   • Replace with: "Along with Jack Trout, Ries is credited with resurrecting the idea of "positioning" in the field of marketing,"
3. and authored Positioning: The Battle For Your Mind, an industry standard on the subject.
   • Delete last clause and add: "in 1981."
4. Ries graduated from DePauw University in 1950 with a degree in liberal arts and accepted a position with the advertising department of General Electric before founding his own advertising agency in New York City, Ries Cappiello Colwell, in 1963
   • Replace with: "Ries graduated from DePauw University in 1950. He accepted a position with the advertising department of General Electric before founding his own advertising agency in New York City, Ries Cappiello Colwell."
   • Add: "Jack Trout joined the agency in 1967 beginning a business and writing partnership with Ries that lasted several decades."

References

Thank you any help you can provide. JasmineBrock (talk) 07:20, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Reply 9-MAR-2019

Below you will see where proposals from your request have been quoted with reviewer decisions and feedback inserted underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please read the enclosed notes within the proposal review section below for information on each request. Also note additional changes which were made to the article, including:

1. The removal of unsourced information.
2. The removal of the bibliography section, which was unsourced.

 Spintendo  10:15, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Proposal review 9-MAR-2019

Al Ries is an American marketing professional and author.  Approved. Along with Jack Trout, Ries is credited with resurrecting the idea of "positioning" in the field of marketing  Approved. and authored Positioning: The Battle For Your Mind in 1981.  Approved. Ries graduated from DePauw University in 1950.  Partly approved. He accepted a position with the advertising department of General Electric before founding his own advertising agency in New York City, Ries Cappiello Colwell.  Approved. Jack Trout joined the agency in 1967  Approved. beginning a business and writing partnership with Ries that lasted several decades  Declined. ___________

@Spintendo: Thank you very much. JasmineBrock (talk) 12:08, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Request 2

It may be helpful to read the sections before this for some context. The short version is that I have a conflict of interest and I would like to suggest the following changes.

1. Add Infobox
Al Ries Education DePauw University (BA, 1950) Years active 1950–present Website www.ries.com

2. Add Early life and education section:

Early life and education Ries graduated from high school in Harvey, Illinois. He then joined the Merchant Marines and later served in the Korean War with the United States Army. Ries graduated from DePauw University as a mathematics major in 1950. He accepted a position with the advertising department of General Electric before founding his own advertising agency in New York City, Ries Cappiello Colwell. in 1961. Jack Trout joined the agency in 1967. References

3. Add Career section:

Career Ries and Trout are sometimes credited with developing and promoting the concept of product or brand "positioning" with the publication of a series of magazine articles in the late-1960s and early 1970s, followed by a book a decade later. However, some scholars instead credit David Ogilvy with developing the positioning concept in the mid-1950s. Ries and Trout published articles about positioning in Industrial Marketing in 1969 and Advertising Age in 1972. In 1981, they published Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind. According to historian Stephen A. Fox, although Ries and Trout may not have invented positioning, they "resurrected the concept and made it their trademark." The American Marketing Association, NY Chapter announced Al Ries as one of the 2016 inductees to the Marketing Hall of Fame. References

4. Add Bibliography section:

Bibliography Focus: The Future of Your Company Depends on it. Harper Collins. 1996. ISBN 9780887307645. With Jack Trout Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind. Warner Books. 1981. ISBN 9780446308007. Marketing Warfare. McGraw Hill Professional. 1997. ISBN 9780071371124. Bottom-up Marketing. McGraw-Hill. 1989. ISBN 9780070527331. Horse Sense. McGraw-Hill. 1991. ISBN 9780452267640. The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing. Profile Books Limited. 1994. ISBN 9781861976109. With Laura Ries 11 Immutable Laws of Internet Branding. Profile Books Limited. 2001. ISBN 9781861976000. The 22 Immutable Laws of Branding. HarperBusiness. 1998. ISBN 9780887309373. The Fall of Advertising and the Rise of PR. Harper Collins. 2002. ISBN 9780060081980. The Origin of Brands. Harper Collins. 2004. ISBN 9780060570149. War in the Boardroom. Harper Collins. 2009. ISBN 9780061973130.

• Also, please remove the tag at the top of the page. If not the problem is resolved, please tell me what information I can provide to fix the underlying issue. Thank you! --JasmineBrock (talk) 12:08, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Reply 14-MAR-2019

Below you will see where proposals from your request have been quoted with reviewer decisions and feedback inserted underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please read the enclosed notes within the proposal review section below for information on each request.  Spintendo  14:15, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Proposal review 14-MAR-2019

Ries graduated from high school in Harvey, Illinois. Clarification needed. He then joined the Merchant Marines and later served in the Korean War with the United States Army. Clarification needed. Ries graduated from DePauw University as a mathematics major in 1950.  Already done. He accepted a position with the advertising department of General Electric before founding his own advertising agency in New York City, Ries Cappiello Colwell in 1961.  Approved. Jack Trout joined the agency in 1967.  Already done. Ries and Trout are sometimes credited with developing and promoting the concept of product or brand "positioning" with the publication of a series of magazine articles in the late-1960s and early 1970s, followed by a book a decade later.  Already done. However, some scholars instead credit David Ogilvy with developing the positioning concept in the mid-1950s. Ries and Trout published articles about positioning in Industrial Marketing in 1969 and Advertising Age in 1972. In 1981, they published Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind. According to historian Stephen A. Fox, although Ries and Trout may not have invented positioning, they "resurrected the concept and made it their trademark.  Declined. ___________

Thank you! JasmineBrock (talk) 07:59, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Request 3

Please add the three sentences in green in the collapsed section below. Please remove the last sentence in the first paragraph so that Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind is not mentioned twice. Also please remove the "Al" in the last sentence.

Extended content

Al Ries is an American marketing professional and author. He is the cofounder and chairman of the Atlanta-based consulting firm Ries & Ries with his partner and daughter, Laura Ries. Along with Jack Trout, Ries is credited with resurrecting the idea of "positioning" in the field of marketing. Ries is the author of Positioning: The Battle For Your Mind, published in 1981. Ries graduated from DePauw University as a mathematics major in 1950. He accepted a position with the advertising department of General Electric before founding his own advertising agency in New York City, Ries Cappiello Colwell, in 1961. Jack Trout joined the agency in 1967. Ries and Trout wrote a three-part series of articles for Advertising Age in 1972. In 1981, they published Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind. This was followed by Marketing Warfare (1986), Bottom-up Marketing (1989), and The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing (1993). The American Marketing Association, NY Chapter announced Al Ries as one of the 2016 inductees to the Marketing Hall of Fame. References Ries and Trout wrote a three-part series of articles for ''[[Advertising Age]]'' in 1972.<ref>{{Cite book|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=ydvg4EKbsx8C&pg=PT204|title=Conversations with Marketing Masters|last=Mazur|first=Laura|last2=Miles|first2=Louella|date=2007-03-12|publisher=John Wiley & Sons|isbn=9780470025918|pages=204|language=en|quote=A year later, Al and I [Trout] co-authored a series in ''Advertising Age'', a threeparter.|ref=harv}}</ref><ref>{{Cite book|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=XbK-AAAAQBAJ&pg=PA80|title=Rock Brands: Selling Sound in a Media Saturated Culture|last=Christian|first=Elizabeth Barfoot|date=2010-12-22|publisher=Lexington Books|isbn=9780739146361|pages=80|language=en}}</ref> In 1981, they published ''Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind''.<ref name=":1">{{Cite news|url=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/07/business/jack-trout-dead-marketing-strategist-product-positioning.html|title=Jack Trout, Who Fought for Consumers’ Minds and Money, Dies at 82|last=Sandomir|first=Richard|date=June 7, 2017|work=The New York Times|access-date=January 17, 2019|language=en-US}}</ref> This was followed by ''Marketing Warfare'' (1986), ''Bottom-up Marketing'' (1989), and ''The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing'' (1993).{{sfn|Mazur||Miles|2007|p=203}}<ref>{{Cite book|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=9Xxv-xkV7AcC&pg=PA29|title=Brand Resilience: Managing Risk and Recovery in a High-Speed World|last=Copulsky|first=Jonathan R.|date=2011-05-10|publisher=St. Martin's Press|isbn=9780230120341|pages=29–30|language=en}}</ref>

Thank you in advance.--JasmineBrock (talk) 07:59, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Reply 17-MAR-2019

  Edit request partially implemented  

• Y The first name was removed from the AMA inductee claim.
• N With regards to mentioning the Advertising Age series of pieces, the Christian source states "The authors packaged a number of perceptive fundamentals into a brief introduction on the themes that would eventually inspire their landmark text, Positioning." The Washington Post also cites Positioning as the "landmark" text here, rather than the pieces which preceeded it. If the claims within Ries and Trout's publications in Advertising Age are to be mentioned singularly, that mention ought to include what it was which was significant about that publication as a concept separate from the ones brought up in Positioning. Otherwise these are the same claims already covered by the mentioning of Positioning. If they are to be included, these claims should be cited by the Advertising Age publication itself, which has not been included in the list of references of the present edit request.
• N The mentionings of Marketing Warfare, Bottom-up Marketing and The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing (and Branding) are already covered by the embedded Bibliography list.

Regards,  Spintendo  20:44, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Notes

References

Request 4

Please add the two sentences in green in the collapsed section below. I have add a citation for the article in Advertising Age per your advise: "these claims should be cited by the Advertising Age publication itself, which has not been included in the list of references of the present edit request". Please remove the last sentence in the first paragraph if you would like Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind not to be mentioned twice.

Extended content

Al Ries is an American marketing professional and author. He is the cofounder and chairman of the Atlanta-based consulting firm Ries & Ries with his partner and daughter, Laura Ries. Along with Jack Trout, Ries is credited with resurrecting the idea of "positioning" in the field of marketing. Ries is the author of Positioning: The Battle For Your Mind, published in 1981. Ries graduated from DePauw University as a mathematics major in 1950. He accepted a position with the advertising department of General Electric before founding his own advertising agency in New York City, Ries Cappiello Colwell, in 1961. Jack Trout joined the agency in 1967. Ries and Trout wrote a three-part series of articles for Advertising Age in 1972. The themes discussed in that series of articles inspired their later book, Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind, published in 1981. The American Marketing Association, NY Chapter announced Ries as one of the 2016 inductees to the Marketing Hall of Fame. References Ries and Trout wrote a three-part series of articles for ''[[Advertising Age]]'' in 1972.<ref>{{Cite news|url=http://www.ries.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Positioning-Articles002.pdf|title=The Position Era Cometh|last=Trout|first=Jack|date=|work=Advertising Age|access-date=2019-03-20|last2=Ries|first2=Al|format=PDF|postscript=. Published in a series on April 24, May 1, and May 8, 1972.}}</ref><ref>{{Cite book|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=ydvg4EKbsx8C&pg=PT204|title=Conversations with Marketing Masters|last=Mazur|first=Laura|last2=Miles|first2=Louella|date=2007-03-12|publisher=John Wiley & Sons|isbn=9780470025918|pages=204|language=en|quote=A year later, Al and I [Trout] co-authored a series in ''Advertising Age'', a threeparter.|ref=harv}}</ref><ref name="Christian">{{Cite book|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=XbK-AAAAQBAJ&pg=PA80|title=Rock Brands: Selling Sound in a Media Saturated Culture|last=Christian|first=Elizabeth Barfoot|date=2010-12-22|publisher=Lexington Books|isbn=9780739146361|pages=80|language=en}}</ref> The themes discussed in that series of articles inspired their later book, ''Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind'',<ref name="Christian" /> published in 1981.<ref name=":1">{{Cite news|url=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/07/business/jack-trout-dead-marketing-strategist-product-positioning.html|title=Jack Trout, Who Fought for Consumers’ Minds and Money, Dies at 82|last=Sandomir|first=Richard|date=June 7, 2017|work=The New York Times|access-date=January 17, 2019|language=en-US}}</ref>

Thank you in advance. JasmineBrock (talk) 20:40, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Reply to request #4 20-MAR-2019

  Edit request implemented    Spintendo  02:07, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Request 5

Please add this photo to the infobox. JasmineBrock (talk) 19:44, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

 Done --ColinFine (talk) 20:10, 3 April 2019 (UTC)