Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red

Woman of the day: a new one each day from our women's biographies

Anne Finucane's biography

Hello! I have submitted a request to update the article about American banker Anne Finucane, who has retired from the vice chair role at Bank of America and taken on other responsibilities. Here is a link to my first request. Are any WikiProject Women in Red editors able to take a look and update her page for me? I am also notifying User:Victuallers, who has reviewed the article previously. Thank you! KMBrightSide (talk) 20:35, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi KMBrightSide, when making requests like this could you please indicate at the top that you are a paid editor? Thank you. Innisfree987 (talk) 23:37, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you and a good point. I think all biogs that are updated by paid editors should record that imput. I have exchanged emails with one of the people who paid KMBrightSide and I don't think they realised what mesaage you send when you pay an editor to write about you. The article I saw by KMBrightSide was (IMO) sycophantic. None of it was actually 100% wrong but on the spectrum between marketing and biography it was not as close to biography as I would expect from an uninvolved editor. The article has since been substantially improved by having sections deleted. Victuallers (talk) 07:06, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

It would be useful if KMBS added a clear COI icon to their talk page. It's some consolation to hear that I am not the only member of Women in Red to be repeatedly invited by COI editors to incorporate suggestions for "improvement". While some of the requests I receive seem reasonable, most require extensive examination and seldom meet immediate approval. I must say I am not at all happy about spending so much valuable time reviewing requests from paid editors who are obviously primarily interested in supporting those who pay for their services. Perhaps we can take a more coordinated approach. Any suggestions?--Ipigott (talk) 18:22, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

@Innisfree987, Victuallers, and Ipigott: Thank you all for your responses here. I appreciate the time you've taken to engage with my request and for your guidance. I thought I had properly disclosed my COI when I listed it on my account page and the Talk page where I initially posted my request for an edit review, but I can see now that I should have called it out here too. I will make sure to note it at the top in any future edit review requests and I have added that COI icon to my talk page, as suggested. On Victuallers' reference to "the article I saw by KMBrightSide," I just wanted to clarify that I've never authored an article on Wikipedia, and this recent request we are discussing is the only intervention I have ever made on the platform. I respect and am fully committed to working within Wikipedia's rules. KMBrightSide (talk) 21:46, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

@Innisfree987, KMBrightSide, and Ipigott: I do apologise unreservedly KMBrightSide. I had been mistaken by edits I had recently seen by another paid author and I had negligently failed to check in enough detail. That was completely my fault. Thank you for your gentle reposte. Victuallers (talk) 08:12, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

@Victuallers: Please accept my belated thanks for your very kind reply! I hope you’re having a lovely week. KMBrightSide (talk) 00:48, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

CFD on Category:Women who experienced pregnancy loss

Hello everyone. There is an important discussion going on at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 June 6#Category:Women who experienced pregnancy loss. It's a complex topic with good arguments on both sides for having and not having such a category. Last year, the discussion (Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 6#Category:Women who experienced pregnancy loss) ended in no consensus. Your input may be appreciated, especially with reference to relevant policies and guidelines, or similar discussions in the past that have reached clear agreements. Hopefully, we can have a nuanced conversation about it, and find agreement. Good day. NLeeuw (talk) 13:04, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Customized training sessions?

Hello team: I'm interested in coordinating with experienced editors to have some custom training sessions for a group of mostly women, in a women-dominated skill/craft. This includes biographies of unheralded women in the field, but is not only bios.

I'm hoping to get grant money to support that. Is there a way to reach out to members who might be able to help create this? I'm thinking of zoom sessions, recorded, that our group can use. I'd welcome pointers to previous examples of this too. Thanks for any guidance. Mmangan333 (talk) 13:51, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi there, Mmangan333 and welcome to Women in Red. To answer your question, as a first step, you might find it useful to look through the essay Wikipedia:How to run an edit-a-thon. I would be happy to assist you but am no expert in zoom sessions.--Ipigott (talk) 09:50, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestions, I have looked at the edit-a-thon materials and someday want to do that. But what I really need is upstream of that. I have to convince people to want to edit, and want to show them that it isn't onerous. They need the very basics of "Why wikipedia matters" and an overview of philosophy of editing. Also: why women and womens's work is underrepresented. They aren't ready to touch anything yet.

Also: some of them might never edit themselves (many are not tech-savvy or confident), but they could help us manage the project in other ways: review exiting articles, identify absent things, and suggest/prioritize the needs, offer pointers to the references, etc. So I'd like to create contributor roles for them somehow too. Mmangan333 (talk) 12:22, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Trying to get more musical theater writing women on Wiki

Hey! By my count only 8 of 29 of the BMI alums on the BMI Lehman Engel Musical Theatre Workshop are women, and I think they are a few who are missing who could be notable enough to have pages. I've written a base-level draft for Draft:Sara Wordsworth for anyone who'd like to jump in and help. (I haven't submitted it to AfC yet, as I don't think it's ready/could use some sprucing up, but I hope there's enough to justify notability!)

Buf if anyone has an interest in musical theater and would be interested in jumping in there, I'd greatly appreciate it! Additionally, the next person I have my eye on, is making a page for Kate Leonard https://www.yourfriendkate.com/about I'm not 100% sure if she's done enough to warrant a page, but she was a cowriter of some reasonably popular musicals, including Ratatouille the musical which raised $2 million dollars for the Actors Fund during the pandemic - which I think was the most they ever made from a fundraiser.

So, those are just some ideas for anyone with a love of musicals who's looking for pages to work on! Wikipedian339 (talk) 21:44, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedian339: It seems close to meeting notability requirements, There may be some useful material in this. While the links to the awards are useful, it would be good to find more independent biographical coverage. If you cannot put together a full biography, you could always expand on her involvement in In Transit.--Ipigott (talk) 09:59, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks so much for the guidance @Ipigott! I did a deeper dive and found more things in the personal life section in addition to some more projects for the career section. If you get a chance, can you let me know what you think now Draft:Sara Wordsworth? Thanks a million! Wikipedian339 (talk) 15:42, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Following improvements, now in mainspace.--Ipigott (talk) 10:51, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Help with new page creation for queer disabled woman artist/author

Hello, I hope this is the right place to post this. I am having trouble getting a new page approved for Draft: Maria Sweeney a living graphic novelist. My page has gotten rejected three times for not having reliable sources, however all sources are notable publications. I am fairly new to page creation and not sure what I’m missing. Can anyone assist and offer guidance? Kapyidu (talk) 14:01, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

The problem may be Wikipedia notability, which is normally based on reliable sources with significant coverage which are independent of the subject. The sources for Maria Sweeney don't appear to be independent: The Comics Journal, The Philadelphia Inquirer and Publisher's Weekly appear to be interviews and Street Noise Books is a publisher's listing. Ashbury Park Press is not used as a reference, but appears to be independent, albeit in a local publication. TSventon (talk) 14:38, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your reply. That makes sense for why this would be disqualified, but I'm confused about the reasoning -- why would an interview be considered not reliable or independent? Interviews are a very common form of conveying information about a subject in journalism, and would be fact-checked by the publisher, all of which are independent publishers in my draft. Is there any way to use interviews for this draft? I appreciate your clarification, and I'll re-work to prioritize the Ashbury Park article. Kapyidu (talk) 17:15, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Kapyidu interviews can be used to add details, but they can not be used to establish notability. It's like just accepting that she believes she is important, if that makes it clearer. Independent, means an organization she is not affiliated with or which contains information she has provided. SusunW (talk) 17:23, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, SusunW. I know you did not make this rule, but I think this rule is misguided -- the subject doesn't commission interviews. The fact of being interviewed by the Philadelphia Inquirer is evidence of notability. And, given that interviewing is a common and low-cost means of creating content for journals and journalists, I worry this rule further marginalizes marginalized persons. Kapyidu (talk) 17:34, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

The good news is that for novelists (and graphic novelists), the bar is actually pretty low. We can fill in the details of her life from the interviews, but she can be deemed notable through WP:AUTHOR as long as we can find enough in-depth reviews of her works (independent, not pay-to-play reviews, in publications such as magazines that have some level of editorial control rather than taking all reader-submitted content). "Enough", to me, would mean at least four reviews of at least two different works, but others' thresholds may differ. If she only has one novel so far (as your draft suggests) that won't work, and instead it would be better to focus on the novel rather than the novelist, but the standard is the same: multiple in-depth reliably-published reviews. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:17, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

@Kapyidu, I think there is some confusion about how ‘notability’ is being used. On Wikipedia, it is not used to mean how important someone is. Instead, notability is just whether one qualifies for a page in the encyclopedia, and the standard for that, in a nutshell, is whether there’s enough secondary source content describing the subject that we are able to write a page about them without resorting to original research. Interviews are primary sources (and I don’t think there is general consensus that they are fact-checked?) so they don’t help us with this purpose. I know this is somewhat different from what most folks expect when they first start editing. Reading WP:WHYN may be helpful on this. Even if this page doesn’t work out, I know you’ll get the swing of things in no time! Welcome! Innisfree987 (talk) 22:39, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

One more thought. It is true that because of bias in media coverage, this policy means there will be bias against marginalized people in who gets a Wikipedia page, but after many years of editing and hundreds of biographies of living people authored (overwhelmingly from marginalized groups), my experience is that it often doesn’t do a living person any favors to have a sparsely sourced WP page, because it frequently ends up happening that they get a flurry of negative media attention on a single episode (say, if they tweet something that draws opprobrium), and that episode ends up dominating their WP biography even if it’s really not a fair account of their life, just because there aren’t sufficient sources to describe the rest of their life and provide balance. Better to wait for solid sourcing that can develop a substantial entry that won’t later risk being so dramatically skewed by a minor incident.

Also, there are at least thousands of marginalized people who do meet the current standard and just haven’t had anyone write up a page about them yet, so I personally think the best thing to do is to start by writing those pages. We won’t run out any time soon! Innisfree987 (talk) 01:28, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

I added a few refs and links. If it turns out that she doesn't quite meet notability right now, it sounds very possible she will in the future (she is quite young), so... maybe keep the draft in a file someplace, anyway, so it's handy when the moment arrives. Penny Richards (talk) 21:37, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your work on this draft! These are wonderful additions! Kapyidu (talk) 13:00, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Here's another source that can help from an issue of The Comics Journal. Silverseren^C 00:09, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! This was one of the interview sources that seemed to cause an issue before, but I hadn't used the Google Books link. I'll add this to the external links. Kapyidu (talk) 13:02, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Low-hanging fruit? Lady Layard

LADY LAYARD, christened Mary Enid Evelyn Guest, was born on 1 July 1843 ... from short bio, as intro to her 8,000 pages of journals, much of which are online. Currently only seems to be a para in her husband's bio Austen Henry Layard. Johnbod (talk) 14:27, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

help - Good articles project?

Hi! I thought I signed up for something happening in June trying to increase the number of Good-rated articles about women; where I could ask for an article to be read through quickly by experienced reviewers to tell me if/how it might be quick-failed within the Good review process. But now I can't find that page. Does anyone know what I'm talking about and/or have a link? jengod (talk) 14:19, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Was it Women in Green’s editathon? ForsythiaJo (talk) 14:58, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Yesssss! Thank you @ForsythiaJo!! jengod (talk) 15:31, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Re: Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by birth month/Women born in February

There is a person named Silvia Reyes in this list, but I am afraid that your bot will remove this entry from the list, thinking that there is now an article about the Peruvian referee. There isn't!!! That new article is about the Spanish transgender activist of the same name. I am currently going through articles linking the referee and amending the text [[Silvia Reyes]] to read [[Silvia Reyes (referee)|Silvia Reyes]], tedious though this is. I know, though, that I cannot edit the page named in my heading. Could somebody please arrange to keep the referee Reyes's name on the list? There is still no article about her, after all, and the transgender activist is far from being one and the same. Thanks.Kelisi (talk) 19:54, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

This problen occurs not only on the page Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by birth month/Women born in February but also on the pages Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by time period/1980-1989 and Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Redlinks/S1. Kelisi (talk) 20:08, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Wikidata has two separate entries, and the referee has articles in German, French, and hu.wiki (Hungarian?). The Spanish activist has 4 articles in other wikis. PamD 20:19, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Women's firsts

Category:Women's firsts (and its various sub-categories, associated lists, etc.) may be of interest to participants of this wikiproject. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 06:13, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Wikiesfera and other Wikimedia gender gap projects on Guardian

Hi and sorry if I put this in the wrong place, the projects changed the structure and is hard for me to understand where to highlight this. Recently The Guardian and EuroWeekly News dedicated two articles (1 & 2) to Wikiesfera (a Spanish gender gap project and affiliate). There also nominated Whose Knowledge?, WikiDonne and Les sans pagEs for enwiki, itwiki and frwiki. Kudos to all. Camelia (talk) 09:46, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the infos! Mujinga (talk) 11:12, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

I don't know anything much about Spanish WP, but "Just under a fifth of Wikipedia’s content, including biographies, is focused on women,..." (Guardian article) sounds suspiciously like a typically mangled Guardian distortion of the en:wp stats, where - crudely - 25% of articles are biographies, of which 20% are of women, so only 5% of all articles are biographies of women. In the unlikely event that the Guardian's numbers relate to any reality, then the Spanish Wikipedia has done a fantastically good job! Or they don't have many articles on places, species and the other non-gendered subjects that make up the majority of en:wp articles. Johnbod (talk) 16:57, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

The Guardian article links to this WMF page, so the confusion is at least partly due to the WMF. TSventon (talk) 17:38, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Or totally. That page says "As of March 2023, only 18.5% of the content in all Wikimedia projects, including biographies on Wikipedia ..", which seems oddly high to me. What's the male figure? Johnbod (talk) 18:18, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Ok, from the Humanwiki page they link to that is "All Humans with at least one Wikipedia article", so very far from all "the content in all Wikimedia projects"! Pah. Johnbod (talk) 18:22, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Redlists

Hi! Sorry if it has been asked before, but could I add articles to the redlist at the LGBTQ+ women meetup? Many thanks! NoonIcarus (talk) 23:57, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

NoonIcarus The redlist section says "Add other red links here, if possible with a source", so you could add more. TSventon (talk) 11:58, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

@TSventon: Ah, silly me, roger. Thanks! --NoonIcarus (talk) 11:59, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Public domain photo for Janice Underwood?

I just started Janice Underwood as part of the education and LGBTQ+ editathons. I thought for sure there would be a PD photo of Underwood because she was the first chief diversity officer of the U.S. Fed Government. I can't seem to find any. Maybe someone else may have better luck. TJMSmith (talk) 21:31, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Janice Underwood, United States governmentwide chief diversity officer, in 2023

Hello! --GRuban (talk) 22:34, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you!!! TJMSmith (talk) 21:28, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Sandra Hemme, longest serving wrongfully convicted woman in US history

I just created a draft for Draft:Sandra Hemme. Her conviction for a murder over 40 years ago has recently been overturned. It is believed the murder actually was committed by a police officer. Thriley (talk) 16:47, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

I just realized there is already an article about the case: Murder of Patricia Jeschke. Not sure if Hemme warrants a separate article. Thriley (talk) 16:51, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Keily Blair draft

Hi editors, I wrote a draft for OnlyFans CEO Keily Blair that may be of interest to the folks here. I have a COI so I cannot create the article directly, but would love it if someone here could take a look and offer their feedback, even move it to being a full article if you think it merits that. I appreciate any insight you have. You can find the draft here. Cheers AG at OnlyFans (talk) 00:57, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

It looks pretty balanced to me, and I made a few edits. It might be good to get one more editor's opinion on moving it to mainspace. Nick Number (talk) 22:22, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

@Nick Number: Thanks for taking a look and making those changes. I'll let this sit here for a few more days. If no one else responds, mind if I ping you to see if there is anywhere else we might attract another reviewer? AG at OnlyFans (talk) 18:13, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

@AG at OnlyFans Ok. Also, if you want to upload a better photo than the one I found on Flickr, there are some guidelines here. The Wikimedia Commons method is easiest if you have an image you can license appropriately. Nick Number (talk) 18:32, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Hurdlers in red

I am planning to soon start a good article nomination for the article 2024 European Athletics Championships – Women's 400 metres hurdles. At the moment, it still contains ten women in red who may of interest to this project (i.e. the ten red links in the table in the Round 1 subsection). – Editør (talk) 17:04, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Unable to verify knighthood

I am working on an article about Sister Anita Smisek in my sandbox. I am trying to verify "In 1995, the Czech community honored Anita with that nation's highest award. The Order of Knights of Comenius" from this source. I have been unable to find proof that the Order of Knights of Comenius is an actual thing. SL93 (talk) 23:54, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

According to page 4 of this Smisek received The Order of Knights of Comenius from the Czech Cultural Center Houston in 2004. According to page 2, 1995 was the year the Czech Cultural Center started. TSventon (talk) 00:27, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. That page also includes information that I previously couldn't find. SL93 (talk) 00:33, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Multiple sources contradict each other on things so I scrapped the article. SL93 (talk) 01:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Transgender pioneers in Spain

Given that LGBT Pride month is coming to an end, and therefore also the activity of the Women in Red Wikiproject related to it, I have thought of highlighting 4 Spanish trans women whose translation could be of special interest to the members of the wikiproject.

• Juani Bermejo Vega Quantum computing researcher
• Yani Forner First trans woman to star in a Spanish film
• Judith Juanhuix Researcher and doctor in physics
• María Pachón Monge First trans woman in the Spanish armed forces

--Peridotito (talk) 12:46, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Corinne Peek-Asa draft at Articles for Creation

On behalf of the University of California, San Diego, I have submitted a draft article about American epidemiologist Corinne Peek-Asa (red-linked in this list and at WikiProject Women in Red/Fellowships) as part of my work at Beutler Ink. Sharing a notice here in case any WikiProject Women in Red participants are interested in taking a look. Thanks! Inkian Jason (talk) 16:28, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Patricia R. Zimmermann

Zimmerman, a film scholar, is notable but the draft needs some work if anyone is inclined. Digging around she is mentioned at Orphan film, Asian Film Archive. Robin Curtis (scholar), Finger Lakes Environmental Film Festival, Karen L. Ishizuka, EBS International Documentary Festival and Transnational cinema along with being cited in a few. S0091 (talk) 15:56, 27 June 2024 (UTC)