Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red/Archive 88

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Smithsonian women artists

I happened across this lovely list of Women artists in the Smithsonian American Art Museum's collection; posting it here in case anyone finds it to be useful. Possibly (talk) 00:36, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Not sure if Wikidata has all Smithsonian entries. Here's Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by collection/Smithsonian which I've added as a new section in the redlist index, lest anyone want to make more of these. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:52, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Terrific, Tagishsimon! Possibly (talk) 03:13, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Philanthropist and benefactors

One of our priorities for December is women philanthropist (including benefactors). I have noticed that people qualified on Wikidata as benefactors are not included in our current redlist of philosophers (e.g. Marie Peyrat). It would therefore be useful if the list could be extended to include benefactors (Q4887411). As far as I can see, on Wikidata philanthropist (Q12362622) is a subcategory of benefactor (Q4887411) — so perhaps it's simply a matter of substituting wd:Q4887411 for wd:Q12362622. I could do it myself but as I'm really no expert on Wikidata, I'd prefer someone else to take care of it.--Ipigott (talk) 10:53, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

SPARQL is sorted, but Listeria is not well ... didn't update the page, at least on the first run. Issue is at the Listeria end of things - nothing we can do. Magnus vaguely aware but :( --Tagishsimon (talk) 11:10, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Tagishsimon: Finally updated and working as it should.--Ipigott (talk) 15:30, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Up to a point. It's not adding a suffix to redlink anchors where another article's title matches the label of the item; so we're getting erroneous bluelinks. :( --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:59, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Women lighthouse keepers

Was doing a little bit of research looking for an image of Fannie Salter, and I found this blog post: http://clifford-archive.uslhs.org/2014/03/18/celebrating-womens-history-month/

I think we've got articles on most of the best-known women lighthouse keepers, but there may be some fodder for exploration here for those who find the field of interest. I haven't the time to do much more digging right now, but may return to it at some point later.

(And I did find the image, too...it's going up in her article shortly. :-) ) --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 18:30, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Martha G. Welch § Request Edits December 2020

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Martha G. Welch § Request Edits December 2020. KnollLane55901 (talk) 19:11, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Discussion regarding "What is a fully professional league" + football / soccer inclusion criteria

A discussion regarding "What is a fully professional league" based on WP:NFOOTY inclusion criteria (relevant to this project) is going on here:

• What is a fully professional league (December 2020)

Input and ideas are welcome. Hmlarson (talk) 20:55, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Can someone help me insert a infobox biography for this person?

Maria Angélica Ribeiro User:Tetizeraz. Send me a ✉️ ! 01:55, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Done. (The fastest place to get results for general editing questions is probably the Teahouse.) Possibly (talk) 02:02, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Possibly! User:Tetizeraz. Send me a ✉️ ! 02:25, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

List of Living Legends of the American Academy of Nursing

Was very surprised to see all the redlinks at List of Living Legends of the American Academy of Nursing, who I believe all pass our notability criteria. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 22:26, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

It's been linked to Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Nurses for well over a year but very few names have been added to List of nurses. We covered healthcare last May. Maybe we should return to it in May 2021 with an emphasis on nursing.--Ipigott (talk) 11:28, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

I took a quick tour through the redlinks early in the list--definitely a lot of impressive notable women to write up. Meridean Maas will have an article by sundown today. Penny Richards (talk) 15:40, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

I've matched 65 of the 126 names on the list to Wikidata items, and added the award and occupation to all of those items. Those who don't have Wikipedia articles should be appearing in the next update of the WIR nurses list. I'll work on creating items for the remaining 61 as time permits. Gamaliel (talk) 02:47, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for all the help! I'm currently working on Marilyn Rantz. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 06:33, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Added a new batch that should show up on the redlist soon. Down to 20 without items. Gamaliel (talk) 16:23, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Although as Listeria is a bit borked, soon might actually be later. It's certainly not inclined to update the Nurses list at the moment :( --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:12, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

The Listeria issue is still ongoing? What a shame. Gamaliel (talk) 17:42, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

https://github.com/magnusmanske/listeria_rs/issues --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:22, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

All done! Gamaliel (talk) 17:42, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks Gamaliel! Innisfree987 (talk) 17:53, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Input on notability

I wanted to check and see what others thought of the notability of this BLP, a state legislative candidate who was not elected. As far as I can tell, it does not meet NPOL and seems to be a case that exemplifies the problems that can crop up with entries on relatively low-profile individuals, because if the entry is kept, it should probably incorporate coverage like this, yet it feels not right to commit that to the encyclopedia about someone who is not really a public figure. Do others see it differently though? (Also, the two main authors of the page have since been blocked for sock puppetry, but maybe that’s neither here nor there.) Thanks for your thoughts. Innisfree987 (talk) 01:33, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

it does seem like there is widespread coverage for her being charged with revenge porn, and the subsequent plea deal. The RP coverage seems to always talk about her candidacy, so the RP coverage is related to the main reason for notability: the political activity. I'm not super knowledgeable on NPOL, but with the political candidacy coverage as well as this coverage, she is looking, sadly, notable to me under GNG. On the other hand, thee points could be argued against, making it a candidate for a good deletion discussion.Possibly (talk) 02:00, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

When there is so much discreditable material about a marginally notable person I think the most merciful course is deletion. Xxanthippe (talk) 02:20, 20 December 2020 (UTC).

(EC) fwiw she fails notability for me based on WP:BLP1E and the WP:NPOL fail. A claim in the article that she was the first Black woman to be appointed to the Virginia Board for Contractors doesn't seem enough. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:22, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Definitely agree that being on the contracting board is not a claim for wiki notability. Innisfree987 (talk) 02:28, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sheila Bynum-Coleman --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:43, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

I actually just ran across this the other day, and did edit it a bit...but I agree. She's borderline notable at best, and I'm not seeing anything that establishes long-term notability. I was on the fence about it earlier; now that someone else has found it wanting I feel more comfortable voting for its deletion. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 03:53, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Likewise, my thanks to all for sharing your perspectives, which helped clarify mine. Always appreciate the thoughtful input! Innisfree987 (talk) 04:25, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Potential WIR Christmas DYK

I just started an article that might be a fun WIR Christmastime DYK if anyone is interested... American singer-songwriter Maura Sullivan wrote the single "Christmas Eve in Washington" in 20 minutes while on WMZQ-FM and it raised $180,000 for charities at the Children's National Hospital and Susan G. Komen for the Cure. TJMSmith (talk) 21:04, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

TJMSmith, that’s a great one! If you nominate, I’m happy to review quickly so maybe we can have it up in time! Innisfree987 (talk) 16:20, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Drat I spoke too soon: the queue is already filled for the 24th and 25th! Those folks at DYK are really on top of things these days—I remember a time when the queue often didn’t even have one day’s hooks lined up in advance! Innisfree987 (talk) 16:23, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Folks, remember that the Christmas season, according to the Church calendar, doesn't end until January 10, so you probably have more time. Merry Christmas/happy holidays! Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:30, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Template:Archival records

Any template geniuses watching this page, by any chance? Katherine Garrison Chapin's papers are housed at the Library of Congress and Georgetown University Library, but I can only get {{Archival records}} to pull one of those from Wikidata; it seems to get confused if there's more than one instance of P485 to choose from. Not sure if pulling more than one from Wikidata would require changes to the template or if I'm just being dense. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 21:21, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

AleatoryPonderings, looks like someone has asked same at Template_talk:Archival_records, no answer... You could try filling it out manually twice, using location2, etc. the way we do for papers with multiple authors (maybe you did), but I’m afraid I won’t be surprised if the template just can’t cope. In that case, how to rewrite the template to accept more than one is a genius level I am afraid I may never achieve! Innisfree987 (talk) 21:52, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Help

@Ipigott: Hello, I want to submit two articles for Women in Red. They are Draft:Mehak Ali & Draft:Jasmin Walia. However I am unsure about whether they are suitable for publishing. So I am asking you here. In my opinion, both articles meet the 8th criteria of Wikipedia:NSINGER. If you think the articles are OK, can you please publish them so I can submit. Imfarhad7 (talk) 17:55, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi Imfarhad7, I agree that these are notable so I've moved them directly into article space. In future, to submit an article through the Articles for Creation process you can add {{subst:submit/Imfarhad7}} to a draft or create the draft by the Wikipedia:Article wizard and then follow the default instructions to submit. Your account now has enough edits and age for you to move drafts directly to article space, or create pages in article space directly, if you are confident that the topics are notable. — Bilorv (talk) 19:58, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

@Bilorv: Hello. Thank you very much for the help. Yes, I was aware about the AfC process, but I thought It would take more time. The Women in Red for South Asia will end on 31 December, so I asked directly here. Some contents from the article Jasmin Walia has been removed by a user. I have no any objection with the removal. But please check this change. I had written only those facts which are recorded in the sources. Jasmin Walia didn't win anything. But the source clearly say that "2015 edition of the popular '50 Sexiest Asian Women' poll conducted by London-based weekly newspaper 'Eastern Eye... The highest placed British woman is once again TV actress Jasmin Walia (28) and Canadian actress Hannah Simone (35), a newcomer in the list, is the highest-placed North American." So clearly Jasmin was at the 28th rank among 50 persons. In the same edit, the user has removed another fact too: "In 2015, she appeared in British television show". As I am new here, I don't know whether this details should be kept in the article. If you think that this details are fine for the article, can you please restore it? Once again thank you.Imfarhad7 (talk) 21:20, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Imfarhad7 Glad to see you are now writing women's biographies. The edits on Walia have been explained by the editor involved and seem reasonable. As you'll see, I've added categories, sort, etc., on the two new articles. Keep up the good work. --Ipigott (talk) 21:36, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, the Daily Mail is not a good source because of its lack of fact-checking and I'm rather dubious that we should be documenting any description of "sexiest Asian women" but #28 is not "winning". I'm not sure about the removal of the TV sentence so I've re-added it—so long as she was credited then the TV credits themselves are an acceptable source for this. — Bilorv (talk) 21:54, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

@Ipigott: Hello thank you very much for answering. I understood. I will find more reliable sources for Jasmin Walia. Thanks for adding categories in Mehak Ali. I have planned to write some more women's biographies. 'll submit them soon.Imfarhad7 (talk) 21:56, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Esther Bubley

Just finished a restoration:

...and would appreciate a bit of help distributing it to articles. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.7% of all FPs} 23:38, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Sunday Times bestseller lists

Any Brits out there have access to an archive of The Sunday Times weekly bestseller lists throughout 2020? I've just created Women Don't Owe You Pretty (June 2020) and I have a source that says it was in the top five for ten consecutive weeks by August, but I'd guess that it later continued being part of the list so I want to know the (as of today) number of weeks. I'd also like to mention the specific date range, cite the Times directly and maybe mention peak/entry position. — Bilorv (talk) 17:39, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Turns out I had access to this information already, as do most extended confirmed users: on The Wikipedia Library, ProQuest had the Sunday Times archives I needed. — Bilorv (talk) 10:16, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Merry Christmas and thank you

I don't play a very active role in the discussions here, but wanted to say I am grateful for those that do & keep up WiR as a such a lively project. Dsp13 (talk) 10:59, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

And a Merry Christmas to you too, Dsp13. I see you've once again been very productive over the past year. It looks as if the vast majority of the 350 articles you have created since last January are about women or women's organizations, not to mention all your edits on Wikidata. Thanks also for your support for WiR and your interesting contributions to our talk pages.--Ipigott (talk) 12:05, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Edith Wilson memoir and historical value

Hi all, I’ve just run across First Lady Edith Wilson’s autobiography My Memoir at DYK and I’m a bit sorry to see how much the entry is focused on book’s lack of historical worth. It’s all sourced, just, it seems unlikely to be the view of women’s historians or cultural historians for that matter—most artifacts have some historical value, it’s just a matter of what they testify to. Of course as it stands this comment is OR on my part. Just thought I’d throw it out there in case someone immersed in the sources might have seen the book referenced. Long shot! Innisfree987 (talk) 20:44, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

We should be careful not to unduly glorify the past-- in this case, I found nothing to contradict the sources that I put into the article-- if I had, I would have put it in the article! However, if anyone finds other things to add, I would be most appreciative. Cheers, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 21:36, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Yup like I note, it’s all sourced and I don’t suggest glorifying anything. I did approve the DYK as is. But for further developing the entry, reading raised the question for me especially since Google scholar finds 85 references to the book, suggesting maybe some sources have found it useful for some purpose, which tracks with more recent historical methodologies that use texts very differently than would have been the case when the book was released 80 years ago. But unfortunately at the moment I don’t have access to most of the sources to see more of what it’s being referenced for, in addition to the more recent sources already in the entry. I’ll dig some more in what I do have. Innisfree987 (talk) 22:06, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Probably best continued at the article’s talk page so I will copy this over there but would continue to be grateful for all input... Innisfree987 (talk) 03:08, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Early 20th century Mount Wilson Observatory human computers

While performing a routine (boring and time consuming) reference search on ProQuest, I stumbled upon a small filler article in the 1929 edition of the Los Angeles Times that mentioned women working as scientists or human computers at the Mount Wilson Observatory (on the same page with forgettable articles about the number of marriage licenses filed in San Diego County and the arrest of a former czarist Russian general for drunk driving).

• "Women in Science: Many of Fairer Sex Engaged in Research Work at Mt. Wilson Observatory". Los Angeles Times. July 1, 1929. p. 10. ProQuest 162328259 – via Newspapers.com.

The following individuals were listed in the article:

• Louise Ware (Vassar graduate)
• Cora Burwell (Mt. Holyoke graduate)

started this one: Cora G. Burwell. Penny Richards (talk) 17:19, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

@Penny Richards: Great start!!! Once it is cleaned-up some more, it should be submitted to WP:DYK. I think that we are just scratching the surface of Burwell's contributions to astronomy and we might need to find an astronomer to take a quick look at the article to point out the true value of some of Burwell's contributions since some of us non-astronomers (which includes me) might be overlooking the importance of her contributions. Did anyone noticed that in the WP article, Burwell is listed as lead author for two of the listed publications (which were co-authored by women with PhDs, Dorrit Hoffleit and Henrietta Hill Swope) while listed as second author on the other two publications in which Walter Sydney Adams and Paul W. Merrill were listed as lead authors? Is this a pattern being constantly repeated in the sciences during this time period? -- 96.64.134.61 (talk) 02:25, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

While I was at it, I started one on another Mt. Wilson computer (not in the 1929 article, she had moved on by then): Jennie Lasby Tessmann. She and Burwell were hired a few months apart, both from Mount Holyoke College. And both attended the 4th meeting of the International Union for Cooperation in Solar Research in 1910. Penny Richards (talk) 02:47, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

@Penny Richards: another great article! Didn't know that a community college in California had named their planetarium after a early woman astronomer and educator. (see below for comment about the 4th meeting of the International Union for Cooperation in Solar Research in 1910, which was attended by the world's leading astronomers of their time, and for a list of additional names.) -- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 02:39, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

• Mary C. Joyner (Smith College graduate)
• Myrtle Richmond (Smith College graduate)

Myrtle L. Richmond has an article now too. Penny Richards (talk) 00:39, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

• Nanna Marsh (Hunter College graduate)
• Elizabeth Sternberg (University of California, Berkeley, graduate)
• Mrs. Katherine P. Kaster (University of California, Berkeley, graduate)

I think the information contained in the L.A. Times article could served as the starting point for the creation of several articles (as many as eight) about previously unknown women astronomers working in anonymity in early 20th century Southern California and would make a nice subject for a Women in Science write-a-thon or a Wikipedia in Education writing project. I believe the employment situation at Mount Wilson is similar to that of the Harvard Computers.

The following resources might also be useful:

• Vuong, Zen (October 6, 2015). "These women were 'human computers' before they were allowed to be astronomers". Pasadena Star-News.
• Wehrey, Catherine (September 8, 2015). "Women Computing the Stars". Huntington Library.
• Joskow, Melissa (August 2018). "More Than a Century Ago, Astronomer Phoebe Waterman Defied Her Doubters". Air & Space Magazine.

Who were these persons that time has apparemtly forgotten? How many of these persons are the Rosalind Franklins of their generation? -- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 00:35, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Nice find! That article is also available in Newspapers.com (via a clipping) without a subscription so I've added that URL to your markup above. --Krelnik (talk) 14:44, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

@Krelnik:, thanks for adding the clipping so everyone can read the actual article.

As inspired by Penny Richards, the following is a list of Mt. Wilson women participants at the 4th meeting of the International Union for Cooperation in Solar Research in 1910 that included the following:

• Cora G. Burwell
• Clementina D. Griffin
• Jennie B. Lasby
• Ruth E. Smith
• Louise Ware
• Phoebe Waterman

Plus Williamina Fleming from Harvard Observatory. Names were taken from the following journal articles:

• Wilson, H. C. (October 1910). "The fourth conference of the International Union for Co-operation in Solar Research". Publications of the Astronomical Society of the Pacific. 22 (133): 169–170. JSTOR 40691725.

• Frost, Edwin B. "MINOR CONTRIBUTIONS AND NOTES: The International Union for Co-operation in Solar Research". Astrophysical Journal. 32: 261–262. Bibcode:1910ApJ....32..258F. doi:10.1086/141803.

-- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 02:39, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Clementina D. Griffin has an article now. She wasn't a computer, but a school principal in Los Angeles who took a strong interest in aeronautics and aviation. She completed a course in aircraft mechanics, learned to fly a plane at age 50, and was president of the LA chapter of the Women's International Association of Aeronautics. Penny Richards (talk) 23:22, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

@Penny Richards: Another interesting person!!! Although Griffin may not have wanted to spent the rest of her professional life as a computer, is it possible that Griffin may have worked as a computer for just a year or two immediately following her graduation from Vassar since it might have been the only job available to her at that time would could use a highly educated recent college graduate? Several pieces of evidence may suggest this. (1) In the journal articles that mentions the attendees of the fourth conference of the International Union for Cooperation in Solar Research, she is mentioned as associated with the Mount Wilson Observatory. (2) In Frederick Hanley Seares Papers, Griffin (among ~50 other names) has an application on file for a position as a computer at the observatory. (3) In a 2018 IAU symposium about George Ellery Hale, historian David DeVorkin mentions Griffin along with Phoebe Waterman, Cora Burwell, and Ruth E. Smith as being Mt. Wilson computers. -- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 03:08, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes, certainly possible! She seems to have been a very busy and curious person at every age. I'll see if I can use those sources to add that detail to her article. Penny Richards (talk) 03:59, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

The more I read about her, the more questions I have about her life. Did you know that held TWO master degrees? (why get a second master's and not a PhD?) DYK that one of her great-grandfathers (her father's maternal grandfather) might have been a 19th century pirate in what became Argentina during its war of independence from Spain? If we can fill in more of her gaps in her bio, we might be able to find enough information to write a GA article or a small book. DYK that her great niece wrote a small blurb about her on the EarlyAviators.com website in 2006. Why was she pick to be the first principal for a brand new high school (Narbonne)? (DYK, that her 4 immediate successors at Narbonne were all men?) What was her previous position? Did she ever served as a vice principal? Why was she demoted in 1941 after 16 years as a principal? An August 26, 1941, L.A. Times article claims that "school authorities said they consider her lacking self-control, judgement and professional leadership". Sound political. -- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 02:04, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

@Penny Richards: the Clementina D. Griffin seems to generate more questions (in a good way) each time I read it. (1) Were you able to find a copy of her first Master's thesis (1920)? I was only able to download her second Master's thesis (1938). It appears that she received two master's degrees from the same department in the university (Sociology Dept. of U.S.C.). Isn't that practice not allowed at most universities in the 20th and/or 21st century? Did she have the same thesis advisor. (2) I looked at the 3 citation that you had given for her work as a settlement worker at the Brownson House Settlement in Los Angeles during the 1910s. Two of the 3 citations appear to WP:FAILEDVERIFICATION. The 1998 journal article "Female, Catholic, and Progressive: The Women of the Brownson Settlement House of Los Angeles, 1901-1920" appears to mainly talk about the work of Mary Julia Workman (another interesting WiR person) and I was unable to find a mention about Griffin. Not sure how the 1944 L.A. Times article can be used to support Griffin's time at the settlement house decades earlier. Unfortunately, I'm unable to find anything about Griffin during this time period that I can add to your work. -- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 03:59, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

BTW, if anyone is interested in writing an article about the Women's International Association of Aeronautics, which Griffin was a member and a chapter president, or just interested in reading about women in aviation in general, please take a look at Linda McCann's 2012 master in history thesis Feminine wings: The Women's International Association of Aeronautics that is available to those of you who have access to ProQuest. -- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 03:08, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I hope someone does! Penny Richards (talk) 04:18, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Found a second history book (free ebook) about women in aviation that briefly mentions Griffin, United States Women in Aviation 1930-1939 by Claudia M. Oakes (1985). -- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 02:04, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Losing track of the indents on this one, let me see if I can go back and check some of your questions.

• It's not particularly unusual for people in public education to have a different academic track than university-based folks; I remember even in the early 1990s being warned that a PhD would make employment as a teacher difficult in some districts (it was apparently a common unofficial policy not to hire teachers with higher degrees than their principals). The current kerfuffle about Jill Biden's credentials in education may spring from the same cultural discomfort. So Griffin's two master's degrees don't much surprise me.
• I probably wouldn't have included general links to the Brownson Settlement House but it doesn't have its own article (yet). So those just establish its existence and its nature (it was run primarily by Roman Catholic volunteers, unlike many settlement houses, and Griffin's Spanish-language skills may have been useful there). You're right that Mary Julia Workman would be another good article subject.
• Perhaps related though: In 1920, she wrote about Catholic welfare work with immigrants in Los Angeles, including medical and psychological examinations, for the National Catholic War Council Bulletin. I added a ref for that.
• The 1944 Poetry Club citation should be relocated, I'll do that now. (DONE.)Penny Richards (talk) 18:37, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

• @Penny Richards: The PhD/ED argument makes a lot of sense. Even in the mid/late 20th century I don't remember seeing any women with an PhD/Ed in public high school administration while there were several men with EDs. Was getting two Masters from the same department common for women during that time period? Mose universities that I know of in the 21s century would refuse have the issuing 2 masters from the same department, but would encourage having masters from two different departments in the same university or if in the same field from two different institution (something about academic incest ???).

• @Penny Richards: I found an interesting article from May 6, 1934 in the L.A. Times in which salaries of all school administrators in the Los Angeles School system was published. High school principals appeared to have been place in 3 different pay levels. Griffin was at the lowest pay level (~$4k per academic year). There where men listed at the same pay level. There were at least two women listed in the higher two pay level. Less than 20% of the high school principals appears to be women. Should this L.A. Times article be included in the article? I would guess there might have been a semi-merit based pay system during that time period, but I would have thought there would have been more gender-bias then. -- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 03:30, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

On a somewhat related note, I thought I'd mention astronomy researcher Antoinette de Vaucouleurs who worked at Harvard Observatory 1958-1960. For now I just redirected to her husband's page as the two were frequent collaborators. She probably deserves her own page, but their work is closely interlinked.[1] Praemonitus (talk) 16:04, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

@Praemonitus: I started a new section at Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Space science#Human computers that might b of interest to you. You might want to add as much information about Antoinette de Vaucouleurs (or any other person) you can find on this page since many WikiEdu students use these pages to get ideas for their WikiEdu courses. -- 68.50.32.85 (talk) 03:04, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Amy Povah

I just made an article for criminal justice reform activist Amy Povah. She is very deserving of an article. It is a work in progress at the moment. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you! Thriley (talk) 02:49, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

I did a little cleanup on that article. I have to say it is a likely candidate to be merged into the CAN-DO Foundation. Perhaps others will have an opinion. Possibly (talk) 03:37, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Female coder

Hi all, can anyone find information about the coder Sheila Elizabeth Whitton? Her article is currently tagged for notability, would be nice to get it resolved one way or another. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 02:33, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Eddie891, Not notable, I'm afraid. Nothing at the Internet Archive; ProQuest only has ProQuest 2459948660, which looks like a paid obit identical to the one already cited in the article. Unless there's something at Newspapers.com, I don't think this passes WP:BASIC or WP:SOLDIER. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 02:43, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

A New Year With Women in Red!

Women in Red | January 2021, Volume 7, Issue 1, Numbers 182, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188 Online events: New: Climate and environment | Public domain Contest (Jan-Feb-Mar): Africa contest Year-long initiative: Women's rights Continuing: #1day1woman | Women who died in 2020 Other ways to participate: Join the conversations on our talkpage | Help us plan future events Become a member | Opt-out of notifications Follow us on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 03:01, 29 December 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Freshta Kohistani

I recently made an article for the Afghan women's rights activist Freshta Kohistani. She was assasinated on December 24th. Please feel free to help build it out. Thank you. Thriley (talk) 05:08, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Help with screenshot from YouTube video

I just started an article on Kathleen Hicks, the first female nominee for the United States Deputy Secretary of Defense. There are many creative commons YouTube videos [2] that may be a good source for an image of Hicks....at least until an official portrait is produced. It would be great if someone could help do this as I fear my screenshot methods may lose resolution. TJMSmith (talk) 19:55, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

I spoke too soon, there is already a portrait here: Kathleen Hicks.jpg. Although perhaps a screenshot of her speaking would be good for the career section. TJMSmith (talk) 20:01, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

TJMSmith, File:Deputy Secretary Blinken Participates in a Q^A at CSIS in Washington - Flickr - U.S. Department of State.jpg would be a good candidate if she and Antony Blinken were actually looking at the camera … AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 20:08, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

TJMSmith, this is my new favorite thing to do. Let me see if I can get one of acceptable quality. Innisfree987 (talk) 20:10, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Hm you may have stumped me. We could eek out a headshot if there were none, but yes compared to the official photo, the screenshot quality is not great. Maybe let’s circle back if the article gets to be longer—I have a few okayish ones of her at a podium that could serviceable illustrate a professional section but just not right next to the professional portrait! Shortly I’ll upload a few examples but want to make them as good as they can be... Innisfree987 (talk) 20:53, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Three demos of what I could get between the omnipresent name chryons.

• File:Kathleen Hicks CSIS 2015 A 01.jpg
• File:Kathleen Hicks CSIS 2015 B.jpg
• File:Kathleen Hicks 2014.jpg

(Sorry the file naming isn’t remotely orderly!) So yeah, not on par with the pro’s still, alas. But in case any may be of later use. Unfortunately the wide shots, which might be of more interest as they show her with other notables, tended to be even fuzzier on video. Need to go back in time and get more stills! Innisfree987 (talk) 23:12, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you Innisfree987 and AleatoryPonderings! I agree, once the article is eventually expanded, it is likely another image can be added to the career section. TJMSmith (talk) 01:20, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

question - how do I link to wikidata?

I am compiling a list of artists, some of whom are in wikidata, but have not had an article written yet. I have seen, but can't find again, examples of the name being linked to wikidata. An example is the Dutch painter Theo Beerendonk. Does anyone here know the "correct" way to do this? Thanks in advance for any assistance. Best, WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 23:31, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

WomenArtistUpdates, If you mean linking to a Wikidata item inline on Wikipedia, you can do it like this: Theo Beerendonk. That's [[:wikidata:Q21545325|Theo Beerendonk]]. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 23:37, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

I was about to say the above, but was beat to it! See also: Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Artists - Aza24 (talk) 23:41, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Perfect! Thank you AleatoryPonderings and Aza24. Best, WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 00:12, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

WomenArtistUpdates: Thanks for all you recent articles on Dutch artists and for adding them to our List of Dutch women artists. Jane023 should be interested n these developments.--Ipigott (talk) 08:52, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Ooh very nice to see women sculptors of any nationality being added! Thanks for those and keep them coming indeed! Jane (talk) 10:19, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Agitu Ideo Gudeta

Wanted to share this bio here: Agitu Ideo Gudeta. She was an impressive Ethiopian refugee who was murdered a few days ago :( Gudeta overcame racist threats and established a successful goat farm using a rare indigenous goat, later becoming a national symbol of environmentalism in Italy. Glad she is no longer red linked, although I wish the circumstances were different. Let's hope for a better 2021. TJMSmith (talk) 17:32, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Confederate spy

Hi all, I've come upon Elizabeth Carraway Howland, a confederate spy. Any coverage that establishes notability? I'm not seeing it, but hope someone else can find something I'm missing. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 21:18, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Eddie891, There's this, for at least historical interest, but it's clearly by a Confederate partisan. Has some additional coverage, in any event. Also "elizabeth+howland" this (searching just for "Elizabeth Howland"). And here as "Elizabeth Carraway Harland". So we have Howland, Harland, and Holland; presumably they all refer to the same person? AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 21:26, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Eddie891 This is a tricky one: she seems like she ought to pass the standard. (Cursory inspection via Google Books suggests to me that she might, just barely - at least to me, as an inclusionist.) She's mentioned in a footnote here (misnamed as "Elizabeth Carraway Holland") which suggests that she's one of only four female doctors known to have been active for the Confederacy. I wonder if she'll prove to be someone whose story is locked away in paper sources that are hard to reach. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 21:53, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Eddie891 Her obit mentions nothing about spying, but has lots of biographical information that could help. SusunW (talk) 15:04, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks all, I think that all this coverage there's enough to squeak by GNG and as you suggest its very likely there's more that isn't digitized. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 17:59, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Halijah Ibrahim

Hello, I recently made an article for the Malaysian botanist Halijah Ibrahim. I need some help sourcing her. Any assistance with the article would be appreciated. Thank you! Thriley (talk) 23:49, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

I have found some of her publications through Google Scholar which gives an idea of her research area, and added to your article.--MerielGJones (talk) 01:01, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Thriley (talk) 20:22, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Margaret G. Kibben - in case you missed it

Retied Rear Admiral Margaret G. Kibben has been appointed by Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi to be the first woman in history to be the Chaplain for the United States House of Representatives. "Margaret Kibben to become first woman to serve as House chaplain". Roll Call. — Maile (talk) 22:28, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Zhang Zhan

Hi all

I just published an article about Zhang Zhan, a journalist who has been tortured and sentenced to four years in prison for her work covering the pandemic in Wuhan. I'd really appreciate some help in adding more detail and references.

Thanks

John Cummings (talk) 00:56, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

John Cummings, such an important article to begin! Lajmmoore (talk) 12:16, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Wikispore bios

Would there be any interest in a complementary effort to add bios of close relatives of "notables" (as WP defines notability) to the "Bio Spore" section of Wikispore? This could include for example, children and parents, and perhaps most significantly, spouses. Since a great number of people in "structurally notable" positions (such as elected officials at various levels) have historically been men, that would be an opportunity to focus on their wives. These women may not have been notable in their own standing (again, per my understanding of WP's definition) but may have done interesting things that bear mentioning outside the context of a sentence or two (if that) in their husbands' WP articles. Wikispore's bio section seems to be ideally suited for such articles. (One could also see Wikispore bios on husbands of notable women, of course.) I'd just add that in my understanding, the "Bio Spore" is not a "minor league" or "below A-list" platform, but rather a place to explore other dimensions of notability, and recognizing that people we deem "notable" achieve such status in a nexus of family support from individuals who are worth knowing about in their own right.--A12n (talk) 17:58, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

More 1day1woman

Just finished my last 1day1woman 2020 page a bit ahead of schedule — 299 brand new pages and 67 stub expansions/page overhauls, nearly all of them WiR pages. If you'll excuse a moment of cheesiness, I wanted to say a general thanks to everyone here for all of the infrastructure that so effectively draws in and supports contributors who care about making Wikipedia's coverage fair. The encyclopedia is so much better because this WikiProject is around and active. :) - Astrophobe (talk) 06:43, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Great stuff, Astrophobe. As far as I can see, apart from your other new articles and expansions, you have contributed over 260 new biographies of women over the past 12 months, nearly all of them Start, C or B class. Quite an achievement. Enjoy a good rest over the holidays and get ready to contribute with just as much enthusiasm in 2021.--Ipigott (talk) 11:58, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, Astrophobe, and happy holidays! --Rosiestep (talk) 14:04, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you both very much! And thanks for the accurate count, Ipigott, that's great to know! In 2021 I might take some of that women in red work and use it as the basis for some women in green work :) - Astrophobe (talk) 17:10, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Astrophobe, Amazing work! Happy editing :) Lajmmoore (talk) 12:06, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks very much, Lajmmoore! - Astrophobe (talk) 02:52, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Image revdel?

I accidentally uploaded two too-large versions of File:Joan Micklin Silver.png for Joan Micklin Silver. Any admins watching who can revdel the first two versions of this file as non-fair use because too big? I'm not sure how to request it otherwise. Thanks! AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 07:06, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

AleatoryPonderings, placing the template {{Non-free reduce}} in the file will trigger a bot to reduce the resolution automatically. TJMSmith (talk) 07:25, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

AleatoryPonderings, Seems that you figured out the template, but I'd be happy to revdel the two revisions unless there's a reason to wait seven days. Cheers, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:34, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Eddie891, No reason to wait. Problem is, the file is no longer on Joan Micklin Silver, because I may (unbeknownst to me) not have not waited long enough after her death to post it. See User_talk:Stephen#Non-free_images_and_RDs for details. So it might be speedied in 7 days anyway. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 14:36, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

AleatoryPonderings, that's actually what I was going to comment here, but that's actually outdated logic (see Wikipedia:Files_for_discussion/2020_May_29#File:George_Floyd.png, where the consensus was an interpretation of the policy WP:NFCC#1 that presumes that free images of recently deceased people are normally available is mistaken, and that the guideline WP:NFCI #10 should be read with the presumption that obtaining a free image of recently deceased people is normally not likely.) Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:42, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Eddie. I've restored the image for now per your last. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 14:54, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Women samurai

Towards the end of significantly expanding an article about the Japanese weapon kusarigama, I was happy to come across a magazine article which stated that women samurai also used the weapon. I thought that the members of this group would be interested in that fact and reading the women samurai article (pages 45 to 48). SL93 (talk) 02:56, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

SL93, This is very interesting! Thanks for the heads up. Would you be interested in creating a redlist for WIR based off that article? Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:25, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Megalibrarygirl I can try to search for women samurai to add to a red list for Women In Red, but I don't know how to make one. SL93 (talk) 16:27, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

SL93, I can make an empty list, or if you think they'd be a better fit in a more inclusive list, like "Warriors" which could include other types of fighters, I can make that for you to add to. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:32, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Final results Women in Asia contest | Oct-Nov-Dec 2020

Women in Asia contest

The Women in Red Continental Challenge is on. The Women in Red Women in Asia contest ran from October 2020 through December 2020. It had 37 active participants.
Winners:

• Winner: Penny Richards with 55 new articles
• Second place:Naushervan with 43 new articles
• Third place:SWP13 with 42 new articles

Other statistics
A grand total of 351 articles were created!

• 111 articles were created in October 2020
• 165 articles were created in November 2020
• 75 articles were created in December 2020

The Women in Africa contest | Jan-Feb-Mar 2021 starts now!

-- WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 02:41, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

WomenArtistUpdates, WOW!!! Congratulations all! Lajmmoore (talk) 12:19, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Amazing results! Congratulations to the winners! --Rosiestep (talk) 16:37, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Help Requested: Draft:Tiffany Reisz

Hi, everybody. I'm somewhat new to the group and look forward to creating posts about notable women together. I created my first post on female author Tiffany Reisz in November. But today a user marked it for deletion, claiming there weren't enough independent news sources. I had included 13, which is more than twice the number her male husband, Andrew Shaffer, has in his never-disputed entry. I've since added two more. These sources are NPR, Los Angeles Times, Marie Claire, USA Today - definitely reputable, well-known news outlets here in the US. Yet this entry keeps getting disputed; this is the third challenge it's had. Would one of you mind to take a look, please, and help me figure out what's going on or possibly just approve the entry so it can move out of draftspace hell?

For those interested in lifting up the LGBT community, Reisz is queer, writes about gay characters, and has won a LAMBDA, so there's an added bonus there as well, thanks. Kentuckian in NY (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 22:41, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi Kentuckian in NY -- For an author the relevant notability guideline is WP:AUTHOR, which in practice at AfD is usually interpreted as three or four full-length reviews from different, independent sources on at least two different books. Generally I find it's quite easy to meet. The problem with Articles for creation is that the reviewers are overwhelmed with paid contributors, which tends to make them very wary, especially with living people where every bit of the article is supposed to be sourced properly -- in practice of course, 95% of bios in the encyclopedia don't meet that standard, but AfC reviewers have been threatend with sanctions in the past for putting BLP-violating content into mainspace, so they are naturally rather careful.

Unfortunately, once an article has been rejected by the WP:Articles for creation reviewers, it's a bit of a nightmare getting it out of the system, without making sure it complies with all possible policies and then appealing for a second opinion on their talk page. You could just delete all the material you can't find good sources for and try again. Best of luck! Espresso Addict (talk) 00:21, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, there's like 50 sources on the page maybe now? There were 13. Looking at this particular user's talk page, my opinion is she makes deleting entries on female artists her personal hobby, using the same excuse every time. Espresso Addict, are you maybe able to help me get the page approved? I'll be honest. Fighting this has taken HOURS of my time. If they want to run women off Wikipedia, this is how the d-mn well do it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kentuckian in NY (talk • contribs) 00:32, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi Kentuckian, I object to your assumption about my motivations in the above comment. I take pride in applying the Wikipedia policies on reviewing draft articles accurately, fairly and consistently. I note that two other editors have also declined your draft or moved it from mainspace to draftpsace as they considered it wasn't ready for publishing (MrsSnoozyTurtle and Praxidicae), so I am not alone in my judgement of the draft. Also, as I have advised you several times on talk pages and on the draft itself, and Espresso Addict mentions above, it's not a matter of "how many sources" are provided, but "how in-depth" the sources are. MurielMary (talk) 01:19, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi Kentuckian in NY -- I doubt any of these people are trying to eliminate bios of women on the 'pedia; not that editors' gender matters but almost everyone who has interacted with this article presents as a woman and several are active members of this project. There has tended to be more scrutiny of women's bios than men's because of a perception in some quarters that enthusiastic WiR contributors have sometimes been a little too indiscriminate in their sweeps. In the end the only answer is strong reliable sources and a good dose of patience, persistence & assuming good faith. I'm no expert on professionally published erotic lit, I fear. Perhaps someone at one of the projects listed on Talk:Fifty Shades of Grey could assist? Cheers, Espresso Addict (talk) 01:39, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Kentuckian in NY, unless you have a WP:COI with this subject, AfC is an optional process. I suggest you move your draft to mainspace yourself. As it stands (see Espresso Addict's summary), an article is much less likely to be approved at AfC than it is to be deleted. ~Kvng (talk) 00:54, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

I see that WP:DRAFTIFY landed this at AfC. This is also an optional process. Moving it back to mainspace should not be considered WP:DISRUPTIVE. If the patroller objects, their recourse is to nominate the article for deletion. I've watchlisted the draft and am happy to help move this through the processes. ~Kvng (talk) 01:02, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

I agree it’s very unlikely to be deleted. Reading your comments on the draft Kentuckian in NY, I think you might find the path forward with least friction is to take the opportunity of time in draft space to expand the body of the entry (the prose) based on the sources you cite. You can also go through and clean up refs as I just started doing (removing duplicates and adding details to the ones that remain). None of these things is technically a requirement, only the existence of good sources are, but it makes it much easier for reviewers to evaluate the sources if you label them neatly and make good use of them to show they are enough to write a solid entry, that’s more than a list of her works (I left a tag to indicate where I think expansion would help). I genuinely hope that’s helpful—I know this process can be totally bewildering at the start. (And also sometimes years in!) Innisfree987 (talk) 01:39, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Stub created for Zetta Elliott

Zetta Elliott was one of the women writers mentioned in What If Our Textbooks Were Black? who did not previously have a Wikipedia page. I have created one for her as part of the Science Fiction Wikiproject. There are many interviews with her listed on her website that have not been referenced, and so far there is little-to-no-material on her community work, her diversity in literature activism, nor on her plays. More respectable new coverage sources would also be good. Netmouse (talk) 01:41, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Rosemary Margaret Smith

Hello, I recently made an article for the botanist Rosemary Margaret Smith. I need some help sourcing her. Any assistance with the article would be appreciated. Thank you! Thriley (talk) 08:22, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Thriley, Might I suggest waiting a bit longer to add sources and content before adding articles to mainspace? You might avoid being tagged with {{notability}} if you have more sources and evidence of notability. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 14:02, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Hello Thriley. I'm afraid I agree with the tagger that notability as a botanist (per WP:PROF) isn't yet demonstrated. Her publications are hard to find on Google Scholar as she seems to publish as "R. M. Smith"; I tried a few searches but only came up with the one that turns out to be already in. Are there any obituaries that could be added? Even brief ones from a university, society or local newspaper would be helpful in trying to meet the general notability guidelines. ETA: Google finds a Scottish Rosemary Smith, active as a mycologist with the Grampian branch of the British Mycological Society, but she appears to be still active as of 2016. Espresso Addict (talk) 01:30, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Have I helped at all in regards to that, @Thriley:, @AleatoryPonderings:, @Espresso Addict:? Silverseren^C 22:27, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Wow, you have certainly improved the article, Silver seren! I don't know whether the article would survive AfD -- the group of editors who scrutinise academics mainly go by citation counts and can be rather harsh, imo -- but I certainly think it's fair to remove the tag and see if anyone replaces it or decides to test the notability at AfD. Thanks, Espresso Addict (talk) 01:20, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

There's definitely multiple published studies that talk about Smith's work at length due to her being involved in creating and re-naming most of the genera in the ginger family. I could honestly extend the career section more than I have. Silverseren^C 01:26, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Women in Red membership

Thanks to MarioGom, we now have a list of active WiR members sorted by the date when they joined. (It resulted from problems with our main membership list which changes the "member since" date whenever members edit their "card".) From the total of 1,195, 53 joined in 2015, 101 in 2016, 147 in 2017, 314 in 2018, 304 in 2019 and 276 in 2020. As the list of inactive members had stopped functioning, MarioGom has revived it. Although I have not counted the names, I believe it is similar in length to the active members list. Inactive members are added to the list if they have not been active on Wikipedia for three months. Most of the redlinked inactive members made only one edit on Wikipedia, namely their WiR registration, apparently as a result of suggestions at editathons.--Ipigott (talk) 08:52, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, @MarioGom and Ipigott:! --Rosiestep (talk) 22:05, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

A Woman's Work: The NFL's Cheerleader Problem

I recently made a page for the 2019 film A Woman's Work: The NFL's Cheerleader Problem and started on a page for the film's director Yu Gu. Any help would be appreciated! Thank you, Thriley (talk) 03:38, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Marilyn Leask at AfD

Can I interest anyone in improving Marilyn Leask, currently at AfD? She is a researcher in education in the UK, possibly born in Australia. Author/editor of educational textbooks with Routledge. The article was (probably rightly) stubbed during the AfD but does little to demonstrate her significance. There are substantial COI problems in the history. Regards, Espresso Addict (talk) 04:10, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Women in Green - end of year summary

Hi all -- I thought I'd provide a quick update of what WikiProject Women in Green got up to in 2020. This past year brought the following:

• We became a full WikiProject, rather than a sub-project of WikiProject Women.
• Our list of members increased from 33 to 61.
• We submitted 54 GA nominations about women/women's works, with a women-in-sports focus and a separate wildcard category (50 passed, 4 still waiting review).
• We reviewed 22 GAN articles about women/women's works (20 passed, 2 failed).
• We submitted 5 FA nominations about women/women's works (4 passed, 1 still under review).

We have a new set of goals for 2021, including a goal for GA nominations around women's rights (following WiR's lead again!), and we welcome anyone who's interested in contributing to the project. Alanna the Brave (talk) 19:16, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

50 GAs and 4 FAs is a tremendous tally and a huge improvement over 2019. Sincere thanks to all involved.--Ipigott (talk) 20:28, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

I second Ipigott! Glad to see Women in Green and WIR working in conjunction to increase coverage on women's rights and BIPOC individuals. TJMSmith (talk) 22:15, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

A post about it on the WIR Instagram account. Great work! Lajmmoore (talk) 19:32, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Twitter's reliance on Wikipedia for its "blue checkmark"

In his article "Twitter Wants to Use Wikipedia to Help Determine Who Gets a Blue Checkmark", Stephen Harrison examines the implications of Twitter's use of Wikipedia biographies for establishing notability. Monika Sengul-Jones (linked in the aticle to user:Shameran81) suggests that this could widen the gender gap.--Ipigott (talk) 13:05, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

I read the article and found it interesting. Having a Wikipedia article is one of a list of criteria and meeting X number of these criteria will prompt Twitter to give a checkmark. The move was prompted after it gave a checkmark to a white supremacist, apparently, who does have a Wikipedia article; none of the criteria Twitter have implemented would stop that, but I think they're aiming for transparency of their checkmark process so that when controversial figures get the checkmark people know it's just because Twitter has confirmed they're a notable public figure, not a sign of endorsement. Since the other criteria Twitter has on that list are basically in line with our notability criteria (and they won't be relying on Wikipedia, that's just a nice headline), I don't think there will be any effect on the Twitter-checkmark gender gap at all: it will be just as big as it was before. Kingsif (talk) 13:26, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Meh, Twitter is all about ratings and members and willing to push off any responsibility on whomever they can anyway. So a flawed Twitter is going to rely on a flawed Wikipedia which relies on perceived and flawed sources itself to determine who get the blue check of notability. Kinda sounds like the criteria for getting a gold star in kindergarten. Ooh, the smiley faces though. They were awesome. I got those because my teacher was my mum (home schooled). --ARoseWolf (Talk) 14:53, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Tsistunagiska: She certainly seems to have been a great teacher.--Ipigott (talk) 11:36, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Ipigott: A great teacher she was, even though she didn't have to be. She loved me unconditionally and I miss her as well as my Papa. They provided me a wonderful home and loving parents when I was most vulnerable and had none. Sometimes I wonder if the student should have paid more attention to the lessons. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 19:50, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Advancing Women Artists Foundation

Plautilla Nelli - The Last Supper (in 2019)

FYI - There was an interesting article on NPR this morning, Where Are The Women?': Uncovering The Lost Works Of Female Renaissance Artists. It focuses on the organization Advancing Women Artists Foundation. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 17:51, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes indeed, really interesting. SusunW might be interested in the snippet: During the Renaissance, Falcone says, "Women didn't have citizenship. They couldn't produce art as a profession. They couldn't issue invoices. They couldn't study anatomy."--Ipigott (talk) 09:35, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Ooh, I am. Thank you. Making slow progress on it, but plugging away. There's a fascinating connection between art and women's studies. One of the first courses to teach about women used famous artworks. The logic was that if someone was notable enough to have a painting painted of her, then we should know about her life. So they took photographs of paintings of women, made them into slides, researched the women and taught classes on them. I have always been thankful for their foresight. SusunW (talk) 14:31, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

SusunW, well I learned something new today! How bout that. Thank you. Wonderful. It makes me think of the terrific Molly Crabapple line, “Muses don’t keep copyright.” But maybe a bit can be restored to them by history! Innisfree987 (talk) 14:52, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Innisfree987, I love that quote. Susan Groag Bell was that academic. Her story is really interesting. SusunW (talk) 15:02, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

I thought it was interesting that they mentioned that as the only (known) female Renaissance painter of the "Last Supper", Nelli put some actual food on the table. Which begs the question - what is that animal on the platter in front of Christ? It looks like a large ferret taking a nap. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 01:16, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

It's a whole lamb, which was considered usual for the Passover meal, probably reflecting contemporary Jewish practice. An actual baby lamb, not the hulking teenager sheep now eaten in most Anglophone countries. Johnbod (talk) 00:22, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Golly, I guess I just put my ignorance of fauna and religion on display. Thanks for the answer Johnbod :) WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 02:40, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Just for fun...Do you remember?

Do you remember the first article you wrote and if it was rejected?

• I remember mine, Edna Meade Colson. It was rejected as the subject was not proven to be notable and I used "Find-A-Grave" as a source :) WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 18:40, 12 December 2020 (UTC) I went back today to look at Edna's article and I see that it was declined "A nice article on a notable subject but too closely synthesised from here. Please reword in your own words". I was embarrassed. But I took a breath, read the guidelines, and worked on it until it was accepted. It got the non-notable tag a few months after it had been accepted. I found out about WiR during the 2017 World Contest. I got a barnstar. That was exciting. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 19:35, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
• Mary Robinson (Maid of Buttermere), which I created in May 2007 as I was doing an OU course in literature and someone had confused her with Mary Robinson (poet). I'm so glad I've kept a list of all the pages I've created (usually as solid little stubs) and what led me to each one - see my user page - as I'd have no idea otherwise! PamD 08:42, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
• My first woman seems to have been Janet Darbyshire, back in June 2006. Still up. I don't think any of my early articles were rejected; I'd probably not still be here if they had been. Espresso Addict (talk) 10:33, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
• My first article on a woman was in January 2007. Seems like yesterday! It's about Luxembourg's Yolanda of Vianden, an interesting historical figure. I seem to have been lucky enough to have avoided deletions and edit wars over the years, probably thanks to the supportive mentors I encountered from the start.--Ipigott (talk) 12:42, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
• My first article in October 2017 was deleted for not meeting WP:N! Thankfully I stumbled upon WIR who helped me start Toby Orenstein, an American theatre director. TJMSmith (talk) 13:13, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
• My first new article, as far as I remember and can tell from various logs and lists, was California suffragist, labor activist Maud Younger, stared November 5, 2011. It's still there, so it wasn't rejected. ;) I started my account about nine months earlier, though, to work on WikiProject Women's History. Penny Richards (talk) 20:34, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
• My first article was Tillie Hardwick 14 December 2014, but it wasn't my first accepted article. When Montanabw discovered Gina Gray (24 December 2014) and approved it, she asked me if I had submitted other articles. I told her Hardwick and Kansas Act of 1940 (18 December 2014). She moved all 3 to mainspace and mentored me through various rough patches teaching me the ropes. SusunW (talk) 20:41, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
• Jane Stephens, and still would love to know why she completely gave up on science after she married - or did she?! It was rejected the first time around in AfC but did make it through in the end. Smirkybec (talk) 20:44, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
• Biographies haven't really been my thing most of the time, so I don't have too many. But the first article for me seems to be Japanese voice actor Chie Satō in March 2011. Not the greatest of articles. It could definitely use more in terms of body and referencing. Silverseren^C 20:50, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
• My first article, in May 2017, was for an athlete named Ellen Cobb (a martial artist, I think?), but it got deleted due to not meeting notability guidelines. I went through "articles for creation" with my next article, and it passed -- which boosted my confidence enough for me to keep creating articles. I definitely found WiR a helpful environment for picking up new skills and finding assistance. Alanna the Brave (talk) 23:28, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Not an expert in notability for sportspeople, but competing internationally and winning medals at European competitions appears to me to meet the sports guidelines. Could someone more knowledgeable take a look? Espresso Addict (talk) 23:33, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

@Alanna the Brave:, @Espresso Addict:, the notability requirement needed for a martial artist can be found at WP:MANOTE. From that options there, I believe she would meet the 4th requirement for being a repeat medalist at both national and international tournaments. And she was an 8th dan black belt, so definitely high enough rank. Her medal wins can be found here. Now the only final requirement is the one all articles have: there needs to be enough reliable source coverage to be allowed to have a stand-alone article. Otherwise, she'd just be a listing in the medal winners for those tournament pages. Silverseren^C 02:04, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

@Alanna the Brave and Silver seren: Thanks, Silver seren. I've restored it and moved it to draft (Draft:Ellen Cobb) to facilitate adding sources. There seemed to be several local newspaper articles in the 1970s but I don't have that subscription. Espresso Addict (talk) 02:54, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Just for the record, paging through the edit history, the editor placing the prod tag was a newbie, who was cautioned for over-enthusiastic deletion tagging. Always worth contesting these taggings, if they seem odd -- it's surprising how many editors start patrolling as almost their first edit. Espresso Addict (talk) 03:07, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

@Espresso Addict and Silver seren: Thanks for looking into it! It would be great to see this article rise from the grave. ;-) At the time of its deletion, I was too new to know how to argue for notability, and I had fewer avenues for locating sources. I'll see if I can add anything to the draft. Alanna the Brave (talk) 03:47, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

• Annie Jenness Miller was my first Woman in red article, I think (Plank Road Boom being my first article). I've been lucky enough to not have any articles nominated for deletion, though many of my early works are stubby and need work. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 23:37, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
• Book League of America: first edit; first article. --Rosiestep (talk) 01:42, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
• What a nice idea! My first article was for Leeds Discovery Centre which was a real pain, partly because I didn't fully understand COI, but also partly because I did experience some intimidation from other editors as a newbie. However, I persevered and my first WIR article was Zodwa Nyoni which got rescued by Victuallers from speedy deletion! I'm very grateful for the helpful community here - the support here definitely has kept me editing, after what was a bumpy start! Lajmmoore (talk) 09:27, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
• My first article, lo these many years ago (back when IPs could create articles without registering accounts) was about Peter Francisco, an ancestor of mine who I still feel is notable, nepotism or no. :-) My first article about a woman, years before WiR? Rosalind Ellicott (created as "Rosalind Frances Ellicott") - one of my favorite English composers, based largely on the strength of her second piano trio, which you must hear if you've never had the chance. Gorgeous work. Looking back over the history of this account, I appear to have created it within a day of registering the account. (My previous account, whose password I forgot long ago, was mainly used for writing articles about defunct automotive marques.) I'm glad, I have to say - Ellicott is very special to me, and I'm glad to see she plays such an outsized role in my editing history. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 15:23, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
• My first article, in 2006, which I started with my account's 5th edit, is Old master print, which I gradually expanded to 57k raw bytes, and nowadays gets an average 75 views a day. Little of what I added has changed - it's a subject WP's readers are more interested in than its editors. Then as now, I don't do biography much, but I was interested to see I was also editing on ceramics around that time. Johnbod (talk) 15:50, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
• It'll be some play by W.S. Gilbert. I'd imagine Creatures of Impulse (created in 2008) will be somewhat near my first (under my old Shoemaker's Holiday account). Unless I managed to get one of the actual Gilbert and Sullivan plays, which is just about possible from when I joined. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.7% of all FPs} 00:54, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Checking, it's really hard to tell from 2006 archiving. Maybe the old Talk:The Contrabandista/The Chieftain/Archive page - a rather odd attempt to combine an opera and its revision into one article, now broken up into two articles and weirdly archived. I think Ages Ago (Sept 2006) - and that from the account I had before I left Wikipedia (I came back) - might well be my first.

• My first article was Transport in Jakarta, even though it is a spinoff from Jakarta, so it is not actually new content. The first article that I made that was draftified is Draft:1996 in Indonesia, because of insufficient sourcing. I have added sources and moved it to the mainspace again. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:45, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
• My first was Marcella Pattyn - rather niche. Newystats (talk) 21:21, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
• Mine was Fáry's theorem, in 2006. An illustration I created for it at the same time was deleted, but only because it was replaced by the same image in a better format. The original version that I created included a violation of WP:NOR in its "proof" section (the proof that is still there today) which bothered me for years, but I later was able to source the same proof to a book published four years after the article creation. By the time of my first WIR-related creation in 2008 I had learned not to do that, but instead had a bit of a COI (declared in the initial edit), as the article Evelyn Stokes is about my aunt. She was notable, though, so despite the COI the article is still here. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:30, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
• Mine was Ibn al-Samh, in June 2017. I noticed redlinks to it and figured I might as well fill them in. The second article I created was about a woman's contribution to mathematical physics, Solèr's theorem. I never found enough biographical information about Maria Pia Solèr to write an article about her, which is too bad. XOR'easter (talk) 23:44, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Jess Wade on NPR

Interviewed on 6 January by Emily Wong on NPR, Jess Wade reveals three favourites she would include in her pandemic bubble: Sarah Gilbert, Kizzmekia Corbett and Gladys West. Listen or read at One Page At A Time, Jess Wade Is Changing Wikipedia.--Ipigott (talk) 16:21, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Cool! Working on Wikipedia is like time travel.WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 18:05, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Such a cool interview! Jessamyn (talk) 02:48, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Queer disabilities studies scholar?

May I interest anyone in Wesleyan professor Christina Crosby’s entry? One of her publishers has informally announced her passing, though it has not been confirmed; with the kind assistance of Espresso Addict, we have been working on improving it regardless and any interested hands would be very welcome. She has a book on Victorian conceptions of history and women that could do with expert eyes, among other aspects for improvement. Thanks all! Innisfree987 (talk) 05:50, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Halina Buyno-Łoza is up for deletion

You can check out the AfD here

If anyone wants to take the time to find sources for her. None are provided for the article and though several are found when doing a search I can't really tell if they would be considered reliable so I'm not sure what could be added or not. There is an image of her grave in Wikimedia:Commons if you search for File:Grób Haliny Buyno-Łozy.jpg. Seems such a shame for her article to be deleted even if it must remain a stub. There are no WIR Project templates on her talk page. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 21:15, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

I really can't see any reason why this should be deleted. It's not a BLP.--Ipigott (talk) 13:59, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Adding new article to the WikiProject

Hello! I joined this WikiProject today, and just created my first article for it (Josephine Dobbs Clement). I've added {{WIR-00}} to the article's talk page, and wanted to check if there's anything else I should be adding to ensure it's captured by the WikiProject? Just want to be sure that it'll show up on Report bot's metrics, etc. Thank you! —DanCherek (talk) 00:51, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

DanCherek: there isn't anything else that needs to be done. The statistics gathered by Report bot are based on the gender in Wikidata, and the article you linked already has that set properly. Vahurzpu (talk) 01:07, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

DanCherek, welcome and thank you for this interesting contribution! Innisfree987 (talk) 01:09, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Awesome. Thank you both! —DanCherek (talk) 01:10, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

DanCherek, just popping by to say hello and agree - great bio! Lajmmoore (talk) 10:43, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

DanCherek, also saying hi, welcome, and thank you! I was a public school teacher in Durham while Mrs. Clement was still active, so I'm very happy to see her represented (and now thinking Elna Spaulding could also need an article...). Penny Richards (talk) 15:39, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you both, I'm happy to be here. And that's amazing to hear—it's a small world! —DanCherek (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Women in...

Hi, I'm working on the Women in Guyana article and I'm hoping for feedback. It seems like WiR is far more active than other women's interest projects, and it's unfortunate that there's no FA articles for any "Women in _" country, which makes it difficult to build up an article on such a vast subject without any sort of guide. I don't have access to the paywalled journals, so I know as it is it's quite weighted in its current form, but I'd like to be confident that I'm addressing the topic appropriately. Thanks, Estheim (talk) 12:05, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Estheim: You seem to be making good progress on the article. You might get some good ideas for further coverage from Women in Chile and Women in Mexico. I'll look at the article a bit more closely tomorrow.--Ipigott (talk) 16:59, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll be examining those. Cheers, Estheim (talk) 09:00, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Estheim paywalled journal articles can be requested from the Resource Exchange. And if you run across articles while working on these that deal with women's nationality, or if you are interested in helping with the topic, please advise me on my talk page. SusunW (talk) 14:44, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

I've found that topics on health, and more specifically disability, tend to have limited access. I will definitely try the exchange. Thank you, SusunW. Cheers, Estheim (talk) 20:36, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Roberta Avery

Hi. I've created a bio for Roberta Avery. She is the captain of the Brazil women's cricket team and is described as a pioneer of the game in South America. If anyone has access to other sources, esp. those in Portuguese, they would be most welcome. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 20:41, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

As many reliable sources as can be found and added the better. The more protection you have against the storm of AfD the more likely it is to survive it. --ARoseWolf (Talk) 21:17, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Deborah Rhode: PD?

Innisfree987 has been doing a great job updating Deborah Rhode for WP:ITNRD. I came across an excellent photo which might be in the PD: it's linked from this archived post on an Obama administration site (full-size photo here). I don't immediately see any EXIF info that would indicate who made the photo, but a very high-res image on a US federal website that doesn't (to my knowledge) appear elsewhere certainly seems like it's the work of a federal employee? AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 06:28, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks to further sleuthing by Innisfree, I'm convinced this is in the PD (now at Commons at File:Deborah Rhode - Champions of Change - 23 October 2011.jpg). AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 06:56, 12 January 2021 (UTC)