Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Signpost/2014-05-14/News and notes

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Wow, the librarian connection arrangement seems very cool! It will be interesting to see how well it functions. Candleabracadabra (talk) 21:29, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

I should point out that the "Ask a librarian" links are not limited to the National Library only. Depending on the content of the article, they also refer users to the relevant state libraries, which can often be better placed to assist than the NLA for local enquiries. See Talk:Welsby, Queensland, for an example. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 02:43, 18 May 2014 (UTC).

It's worth noting that in the "terms and conditions", the State Library of Queensland explicitly excludes foreigners and even non-Queenslanders from this service:

State Library staff are unable to:

• carry out research for interstate enquirers unless the material is only available in Queensland - please refer to your State Library or equivalent.

Yet the link is advertised to Wikipedia editors worldwide on this and thousands of other talk pages without mentioning this restriction.

Regards, HaeB (talk) 03:31, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Indeed they do, but why would someone from outside of Queensland contact a Queensland library for advice on non-Queensland related topics anyway? Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 05:51, 18 May 2014 (UTC).

Sure, but read the above quote again - the terms and conditions don't make such a distinction between Queensland-related topic and non-Queensland related topics. One has to conclude that all requests from editors not residing in the state will be rejected, even if they are about the subject of the article on whose talk page the service is advertised. (Except for the rare case when the request is specifically about a document where it is known in advance that the only existing copies are located within the state's boundaries, which would seem to exclude most reliable, published sources.) Regards, HaeB (talk) 07:04, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi HaeB, I've notified the State Library of Queensland about your concern and they have passed me this response:

Thanks for drawing our attention to these comments. We're sorry the message on our website could be interpreted to mean that non-Queenslanders are barred from our Ask Us service – that certainly is not the case. The service is actually provided for:

• All Queensland residents
• Anyone wishing to access information relating to the jurisdiction of the Library
• Anyone wishing to access information which is unique to our collections
  

These service guidelines are common across all the state and territory libraries. The intention is to direct people to their own state institution, unless the information they seek is unavailable there, in which case we are more than happy to take enquiries from anywhere in the world. We’ll amend the wording on our webpage urgently.

I'll post here again when the text is changed. Sincerely, Wittylama 06:45, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for looking into this, Liam! That sounds great, hope it will be fixed soon.

It seems indeed that the State Library of Queensland is correct in pointing out that other state libraries have similarly problematic clauses (of course, I mean problematic in the context of mass-linking them on a global website; not telling the library what do to in general).

For example, the service of the State Library of New South Wales (advertised on e.g. Talk:Sydney) likewise excludes patrons from outside the state[1]:

"If you are from interstate or overseas

Direct your enquiries to your own library, unless the information or resources can only be found in our Library, such as original letters, diaries and paintings." (which, again, would seem to exclude most reliable, published sources)

Regards, HaeB (talk) 08:25, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Just to add to what Liam has said, I just want to point out that the SLQ link only appears on the talkpages of Queensland-related articles, so you're not going to see the irrelevant link all over the place. I would also point out that, for Queensland topics (ie: the ones that the link appears on), SLQ's status as a legal deposit library and collector of rare materials pertaining to the state through the John Oxley Library means that they are a rich source of reliable sources on Queensland history. When it comes to older sources, which are handy for topics like 19th century biographies and ghost towns, I've found their collections to be quite useful indeed. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 13:55, 20 May 2014 (UTC).

I know that the SLQ link isn't shown on all 127,000 or so Australia-related talk pages like the NLA link, only on Queensland-related ones. But that's still more than 8,000 links, if I'm not mistaken.

And of course nobody questions that it's a fine library. Rather it's about avoiding "making the library and the editors unhappy (waste time on making an enquiry that is not responded to)", in the words of an editor (Queensland-based, no less) who already raised this concern when the project was proposed on the Australian Wikipedians' notice board in February.

Regards, HaeB (talk) 14:32, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Since I am the Queensland-based editor in question, my comments were about process, about proceeding with this addition to the talk page without first consulting the libraries involved. In the case of the State Library of Queensland, we have subsequently discussed this with them and they were comfortable with it (they are a very Wikimedia-friendly library and have donated over 50,000 historical out-of-copyright images of Queensland subject matter to Commons). I never thought they would be opposed to the idea in principle, but thought they might want some input into the wording possibly wrt to their terms of service. Kerry (talk) 21:33, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

HaeB I've just been advised by the SLQ staff that they have now updated their terms and conditions page which now provides more detail, and hopefully clarifies who they are able to do research for. Sincerely, Wittylama 05:07, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Excellent work, Liam! Hope the State Library of New South Wales will follow suit. FWIW, the (also linked) State Library of South Australia already states similarly that their service is open to "anyone wishing to access information relating to the jurisdiction of this Library", although they exclude "extended research assistance to people interstate or overseas asking for information that is readily available in their own state, territory or country" [2]. Regards, HaeB (talk) 16:03, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi HaeB, I'm from the State Library of New South Wales Glamwiki project (our project page). We are adopting the National & State Libraries Australasia service guidelines for information requests (otherwise known as the Ask a Librarian service; see the guidelines in full) which includes answering research queries relating to our jurisdiction. You'll see changes to the information our website after our internal processes have been finalised. Rubicon49bce (talk) 00:53, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

• Interesting week. Thank you for reporting about those news items! --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:02, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

• Liam's looking quite natty in that photo; keep up the good work Liam! --Roisterer (talk) 05:32, 21 May 2014 (UTC)