Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 7

<<To current talk page

Template for each row in standings

For a template such as Template:2007-08 NBA Southeast standings, I think it would be better to have another template that automatically computes the GP, W, L, and PCT columns after passing in the home wins/losses and road wins/losses. This should reduce the probability of error, and make updates easier and quicker. The beginning of the standings source code could look something like this:

{| class="wikitable"
! width="40%" | [[Southeast Division (NBA)|Southeast Division]]
! width="5%" | GP
! width="5%" | W
! width="5%" | L
! width="5%" | PCT
! width="7.5%" | Home
! width="7.5%" | Road
! width="7.5%" | GB
|- align=center {{#ifeq:{{{team}}}|ORL|bgcolor="#CCFFCC"}}
{{NBA team standings
 |team = [[Orlando Magic]]<sup>3</sup>
 |home_wins =    25
 |home_losses =  16
 |road_wins =    27
 |road_losses =  14
 |games_behind = --
}}
|- align=center {{#ifeq:{{{team}}}|WAS|bgcolor="#CCFFCC"}}
{{NBA team standings
 |team = [[Washington Wizards]]<sup>5</sup>
 |home_wins =    25
 |home_losses =  16
 |road_wins =    18
 |road_losses =  23
 |games_behind =  9
}}
...

Any comments or suggestions? —LOL (talk) 00:53, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Seems like a great idea. ● 8~Hype ^@ 04:05, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

This makes sense. Just be aware, however, that if this template format is going to be applied in other contexts (e.g. for division standings in prior seasons) that it was common in the NBA from the early 70s and prior for teams to play on neutral courts in addition to home and road games. For example, the 1964-65 Celtics went 27-3 (home), 27-11 (road), 8-4 (neutral) for a season record of 62-18. So, the template would need to be extended to handle games played on neutral courts for the early NBA seasons. — Myasuda (talk) 13:10, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up; I was not aware of neutral courts. The older teams can therefore have two extra parameters for the neutral wins and losses:

{{NBA team standings
 |team = [[Boston Celtics]]
 |home_wins =      27
 |home_losses =     3
 |road_wins =      27
 |road_losses =    11
 |neutral_wins =    8
 |neutral_losses =  4
 |games_behind =   --
}}

—LOL (talk) 20:39, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

On second thought, I only intend to use this template as a facilitator for updates throughout the regular season, so it should be subst'ed before the start of the next season and I don't have to worry about neutral courts. The template is slightly different from the original plan above, but editors are still only required to update five values (home_wins, home_losses, road_wins, road_losses, games_behind). The template can now be found at {{NBA team standings}}, and an example at {{User:LOL/Sandbox}} (derived from {{2007-08 NBA Southeast standings}}). Here's {{User:LOL/Sandbox|team=ORL}}

—LOL (talk) 21:45, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Good idea, but the columns should be modelled after Template:2008–09 NBA Southeast standings, i.e. "GP" should be at the end, as some would think "GP" is "W" and "W" is "L", and a "Div" column has to be added. ● 8~Hype ^@ 11:24, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Done. Only one parameter will be used for "Div" because the division W–L record will not be used in any calculations. —LOL (talk) 20:35, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Great work, as usual. ● 8~Hype ^@ 22:43, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

David Stern article

Hey, guys. I noticed that dang near half of the David Stern article is a section on controversies and criticisms. That seems to be a terrible POV and undue weight problem. That section should be truncated down to one small paragraph. And, now, I might be wrong, but it seems to me that the term "best commissioner in sports" is a phrase applied to Stern more than any other sports commissioner. So, it seems like the fact that half his article is an attack with absolutely no praise for his performance seems to be way out of line. If the article isn't improved in the next week or so, I'll tag it with a POV template and get around to working on it when I can. Chicken Wing (talk) 22:16, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

You might as well tag it now :) Chensiyuan (talk) 23:46, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Low numbers of FAs

Looking through our Statistics, I see 25 Good Articles and only 5 Featured Articles. Quite simply, I think a 5 to 1 ratio of GAs to FAs is not a good thing. Maybe some of the articles simply can't be FAs yet (maybe Yi Jianlian, for example). But I think a lot of them can be FAs with a little attention and cleanup.

So, what I'm proposing is that we start a Collaboration of the Month, which is what a lot of other WikiProjects already do. However, I'm proposing that this be an FA Collaboration of the Month. We would pick an existing GA, and focus specifically on getting all aspects of it up to FA-class. If all goes as planned, then we would have at least one candidate per month for FAC.

And on another side note, I think that it would be nice to also work on some lists. In that respect, it seems that WP:NFL has done a great job on that, while we are lagging behind. For example, for lists of teams' draft history, I see we only have 10 out of 30 articles created, and only five are complete. There is a lot of work to be done on those. Noble Story (talk) 06:20, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Quite often, people voting on FACs look out for books on the subject matter. It's quite baloney to me because, it's the age of the internet and besides, not every subject matter would have a *good* book written about it -- so what you really need are a good mix of reliable online sources. But to be on the safe side, we should just pick a subject matter that has some books on it (aside: I know somebody's (Nishkid64) working on Bob Cousy cos he's armed with a book on him, but I think he's splitting time with college). In addition, subject matter that have books written about them are likely more interesting and would engage more members of this project. When Michael Jordan was nominated for FA, quite a number of people here dug in. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking maybe someone like Magic Johnson, a current GA, might be of considerable interest. For the record though, I'm not a fan of Magic! Chensiyuan (talk) 07:24, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Any positive reinforcement for this idea (the collaboration)? I'd like to be bold and just start it right now. Noble Story (talk) 09:46, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Well I'm always around, just drop a message. Chensiyuan (talk) 12:21, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

OK, I've started the Collaboration. If we get just maybe three or four editors working steadily throughout the month on this article, then it could easily go the FAC. Noble Story (talk) 08:44, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

One thing I notice about the Magic article is that it could do with more refs. Specifically, series scores and player stats. The wikifying is also inconsistent in parts; I think to avoid double efforts if there's any willing to undertake a specific task that'd be good. Chensiyuan (talk) 12:20, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

It's since been removed, but given the amount of treatment in the body to the Johnson-Bird rivalry, the lead should mention that. Chensiyuan (talk) 01:43, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it should be. However,the part I removed was rather POV, especially the part about Bird and Johson reviving the NBA. Noble Story (talk) 02:26, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Well I think we can resolve this in due time when the body is sorted out. Nice to see a bunch of us getting involved in this article a little at a time. Does anyone think we should try to engage a good copyeditor to comb through the article eventually? Chensiyuan (talk) 08:55, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

NBA WikiProject May Newsletter

The NBA WikiProject Newsletter
Volume 1, Issue 2 • May 5, 2008 • Written by: Noble Story
News On May 5, the first round of the NBA Playoffs were completed. In the East, Boston, will face Cleveland, and Detroit will face Orlando. In the West, the Los Angeles (Lakers) will face Utah, and New Orleans will face San Antonio. For more up-to-date information, visit the 2008 NBA Playoffs. The end-of-the-year awards are now being handed out. So far, Byron Scott has been awarded the Coach of the Year award, Kevin Garnett has been named the Defensive Player of the Year, Hedo Turkoglu has won the Most Improved Player award, and Kevin Durant has been named the Rookie of the Year.	Improved Content On April 9, Dirk Nowitzki was given Good Article status. On April 19, Yi Jianlian was promoted to Good Article status. On April 29, Yao Ming was given to Featured Article status. On May 4, the List of Houston Rockets first and second round draft picks was promoted to Featured List status. Current Projects Update all the 2007-08 Playoff game logs that are located in Category:National Basketball Association game log templates As the playoffs continue, keep the 2008 NBA Playoffs article up-to-date.	Collaboration of the Month Magic Johnson has been chosen to be our very first Collaboration of the Month article. Although this is article is already a Good Article, it still can be improved. The goal is to improve this article by the end of May so that it can be nominated for Featured Article status. In particular, free-use images should be found for the article, all Manual of Style guidelines should be followed, and a neutral point of view should be maintained throughout the article. If there is anything you can do to improve the article, then please help out.
Archives • Newsroom

If you would not like to receive this newsletter, please remove your name from this list.

This newsletter was delivered by Noble Story (talk)

2008-09 season

All the team articles for the 2008-09 NBA season have to be created. Please create the pages accurately and take 2008-09 Charlotte Bobcats season or 2008-09 Boston Celtics season as examples. Also, after creating an article, please update the seasons template of the respective team. ● 8~Hype ^@ 11:13, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

GAN: 2007-08 Boston Celtics season

I've added 2007-08 Boston Celtics season to the good articles nominee list. Please feel free to review the article. ● 8~Hype ^@ 11:38, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Even though I'm sure you're keeping a constant eye on the article, but because Boston's season is still ongoing, some GA reviewers might take issue with that (stability criterion). Just a heads up. Chensiyuan (talk) 11:41, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

"Mm, after having some experience with the GA process, I think you'll get a few problems from the reviewer. In particular, the length of the article and the long lists it contains. And, take a look at this. GA Quick-fail criteria: "Issues that may warrant a "quick fail" of the nomination include...The article specifically addresses a currently unfolding event with a definite endpoint." I think this article might qualify for a quick-fail. Noble Story (talk) 11:45, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

But if it fails, would it qualify for GA status after the end of this season? ● 8~Hype ^@ 11:51, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Personally I would just wait till the end of the playoffs. It could be a long wait I know, but at least in the meantime you might receive some useful feedback from this project's members. From a quick look, the article's main strengths are referencing and images. I would agree that the length could do with some work. Chensiyuan (talk) 13:14, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Re: Newsletter delivery

User:Noble Story just asked me if I can deliver the newsletters with my bot, and I just wanted to say that I can. Just let me know when they're ready. Thanks! - DiligentTerrier (and friends) 12:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

2008-09 game logs

All game logs for the 2008-09 NBA season have to be created, according to Template:2008-09 Boston Celtics season game log, and the team's colors (which have to be taken from the team's roster template, e.g. Template:Boston Celtics roster). ● 8~Hype ^@ 19:42, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Let's just wait until the 2008-09 schedule comes out, OK?--Crzycheetah 20:09, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

We might as well do that. ;) ● 8~Hype ^@ 21:37, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

The award section of the NBA player infobox

I looked at a few NBA players articles and noticed that people put the award in the infobox using different styles. (For example, take a look at Kevin Garnett, Shaquille O'Neal or Steve Nash and compare) So it makes me wonder if standardizing the way we put awards in infobox is a good idea. Sort of like the Manual of Style of NBA articles. Any thoughts? —Chris! _ct 04:44, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I concur. Kevin Garnett should be taken as an example. ● 8~Hype ^@ 10:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

"While we're at it, why don't we create an article guideline, maybe similar to to the guideline that Wikiproject University has? I'd like to go ahead with this, if I get some OKs on this. Noble Story (talk) 11:03, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I can help out, too. Just let me know. —Chris! _ct 16:43, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea. The lists and tables in NBA articles are especially inconsistent, so a standard should be set.
Regarding the awards section of infoboxes, I find Shaq's layout to be the best out of the three examples because it has a moderate length and the numerals are easy to read in a list. The listing of years in KG's awards section stretches the infobox a lot, reducing readability, so I'd like to get rid of it because the Achievements section already has all of it covered. As for what should be included in the awards section, I think only actual awards belong. Making an All-NBA team or defensive team, and being an All-Star or NBA champion are not actually awards. —LOL (talk) 23:51, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Then "Awards" should be renamed to "Accomplishments", although this word is too long for the infobox. And if it stretches the infobox, it indicates that a player has been succesful. ● 8~Hype ^@ 00:02, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

"Honors"? But not perfect either. Chensiyuan (talk) 05:06, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Not only a standard need to be set, but I think it is necessary to create an NBA article guideline, so that editors can refer back to it later. As for the awards, I like the KG example more. I don't see how the award section reduces readability. —Chris! _ct 00:57, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, it does affect readability a little now that I look at it again. —Chris! _ct 01:08, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

A player's success can easily be represented by cardinal numbers, as Shaq's and Nash's already are. When counting the awards that the player has received, it's easier to add up numbers that are conveniently aligned on the left side than to count all the years in a lengthy, skinny list. In addition, success should not be measured by the length of the awards section. Following KG's current format, the list of a player who's won just one of every award would be just as long as the list of a player who's won four of every award, but the latter player is obviously the better one by far. —LOL (talk) 02:09, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Team seasons

First of all, I think all teams should have the seasons template according to Template:Boston Celtics seasons. Secondly, I would like to modify Template:Boston Celtics seasons, but don't know exactly what to do.

• 1946-47 should be right above 1956-57, not 1949-50, etc.
• All of the seasons of a decade should take the whole width of the template, i.e. it should be sorted in columns, without "•" between each season.

I have already tried to make those changes, but I applied a different format. Here's what I got:

However, there is still one issue to be fixed: The "v • d • e" in the title should be all white (team color) instead of the generic blue. Is there any way to fix it? And generally, is there any way of doing the changes without altering the format of the navbox? Thank you in advance. ● 8~Hype ^@ 14:06, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

You can modify the colour of "v • d • e" by adding |fontcolor=white within {{Tnavbar-collapsible}}. —LOL (talk) 18:02, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much. You always help when it is needed. But is this format a good idea? Should all the season templates be modified like this? ● 8~Hype ^@ 18:38, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't have any strong feelings about the new format, but I do like the fact that the right side is no longer blank. —LOL (talk) 18:57, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I definitely think that the template you've displayed above is better than the one that is currently used. I'd go ahead and change it. Noble Story (talk) 09:06, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Championship roster templates up for deletion

User:Djsasso has marked all the championship roster templates for deletion. I'm for keeping them myself, but I thought this wikiproject should help reach a consensus. The discussion is here. Dknights411 (talk) 17:22, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

This issue is currently under deletion review here. If you haven't already and are interested in this topic, please provide your input. If the deletion holds, the NBA championship navboxes will be deleted. - Masonpatriot (talk) 16:33, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Magic Johnson FAC

Feel free to comment here. Chensiyuan (talk) 07:53, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Just a note: "drive-by" supports are not the way to go. If anything, they will hurt the candidacy, not help it. In-depth, helpful comments are much more useful. Noble Story (talk) 01:31, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

That is a curious observation -- I don't think they "hurt", they just don't do anything. Chensiyuan (talk) 04:45, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

That's actually incorrect, Chensiyuan. For every unsubstantiated "support" comment, other reviewers who find significant problems have to struggle harder to demonstrate that the article should not be promoted. If there are 3-4 "support" comments and one "oppose" with a list of issues, the FA director also has a harder time determining consensus. --Laser brain (talk) 17:49, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

At almost every FAC I've witnessed it's just a couple of people holding the fort, with the rest casting ostensibly perfunctory support votes. But that doesn't mean the latter is counter-productive or demonstrative of a lack of understanding. It's just how the cookie crumbles; too many cooks spoil the broth. My point really is that one just has to AGF, and if a "vote" seems suspiciously drive-by, a quick check on the user's background should resolve credibility issues. How much more can a person say when he or she supports a candidature? He or she would have plenty to say if it is "oppose", but the converse -- I find it hard that people can really say anymore (apart from the one or two holding the fort). On the other side of the coin, users who pummel the process with a whole litany of self-perceived helpful comments also exist. But I think one just has to accept both classes of users; neither are by default destructive. At the end of the day the FAC director just has to make that judgment call. So there, I've explained my viewpoint and won't be posting further on this, thanks. Chensiyuan (talk) 23:31, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Seattle SuperSonics proposed relocation to Oklahoma City

This was a page I created because I thought that the topic deserved its own article. In a period of just over a month, there have been 238 edits (7.4 a day, which is a lot), and lots and lots of edit-warring. I'm not going to take a stand for either side, but I think the article could use a little help from some neutral third-parties who know at least something about the procedures. Anyone who could help regulate would be more than welcome to do so. Noble Story (talk) 09:59, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

• Once the move of the franchise takes place, it will all be moot as most likely it will be summarized into a line or two and merged into the team article (to avoid undue weight) per precedent involving moved professional sports teams. B.Wind (talk) 15:46, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
  • In my opinion, I think it's a bit too big to just be summarized. I think it will stay as its own article. And whatever happens, right now, it still needs oversight. Noble Story (talk) 15:52, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Bill Russell FAR

Bill Russell has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Zagalejo^^^ 06:47, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Template:NBA seasons

It has an error. If the season is e.g. 2007-08, the link to the NBA Draft should be 2007 NBA Draft, not 2008 NBA Draft. Please inform me as soon as it is fixed. ● 8~Hype ^@ 14:01, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Fixed now, hopefully. —LOL (talk) 23:12, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Great work, as always. ● 8~Hype ^@ 04:05, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Pau Gasol=Mid Importance

Pau Gasol is currently a GA, but it is not shown as such in article importance. Gamloverks (talk) 02:26, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Importance is related to how important the article is to the particular WikiProject. The class is where its rated Stub, Start, B, etc. I hope that answers your question. Noble Story (talk) 02:46, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

No, I know that, it shows it now, but I mean Gasol wasn't listed as a GA in the Chart for GA/Mid-Importance, it is now. Gamloverks (talk) 03:55, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Too much biased things on pages.

I was reading many NBA team pages, and I noticed that a lot of pages were very biased. For example, on the Miami Heat page, I edited it because someone had that it was fortunate that two players were sitting out. You aren't supposed to give your opinion at ALL, correct? You're supposed to state the facts. Just thought I'd bring that up! Y5nthon5a (talk) 02:49, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

You are correct in that we are definitely supposed to be neutral. I really think that the team pages our this project's weakness. Toronto Raptors is the only page really well-done. The rest are just long and un-sourced. That's a problem which has to be addressed at some point. Noble Story (talk) 02:51, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I think I may start working on it tomorrow, it's too late to start tonight, and with a game on, haha. I will begin on researching for each page and adding sources, changing text to be more unbiased, etc, tomorrow. Y5nthon5a (talk) 02:57, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Sounds great. More power to ya. Noble Story (talk) 03:05, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Long and unsorced? How about the Boston Celtics season? ● 8~Hype ^@ 04:29, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I was talking about the main team pages (i.e. Boston Celtics). Noble Story (talk) 04:34, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I see. ● 8~Hype ^@ 04:42, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

San Antonio Spurs

Wow, this page doesn't have any new news from this season. I have only recently started watching basketball(around the end of the season) so could anyone please update this page? Thanks.Y5nthon5a (talk) 04:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Yet another example of the weaknesses of almost all the team pages. I'll try to work on adding at least some basic info. Noble Story (talk) 04:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Should we pick a team page as a collaboration for the month of June? Most of them are in a pitiful condition, I noticed it when I assessed them all several months ago, the results are here. The question is what team to select. Any suggestions?--Crzycheetah 05:31, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't know, maybe we should stick with improving current GAs to FAs right now. Tackling those team pages would be a very large task. Noble Story (talk) 06:12, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Great images of the NBA

I've seen that a lot of NBA player articles are rather bare of images. So, if any editor is looking for images, I would suggest looking here. The Flickr user who took all the photos is a professional sports photographer, so all his images are very high quality (unlike most of the blurry ones you see on a lot of articles). I've requested his images before for Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady, and he's agreed both times. So I would recommend taking a look at the collection to see if any articles could use some of his photos (I know there are a lot that can). Noble Story (talk • contributions) 03:44, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

New Template

Hey there, WP:NBA. I've put together a template for stadiums that have moved out of the "purposed" phase and have had physical construction started.

Use it as necessary! Thanks! -- Me^Holla! 22:43, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

User:8-Hype's editing

I noticed that User:8-Hype has already created a championship template (Template:Boston Celtics 2007-08 NBA champions) before the finals is even officially over. The creation itself is a serious violation of WP:Crystal and possibly WP:OR. I have considered nominating the template for deletion, but did not because the final result of the 2008 NBA championship might already be decided before the tfd process is even finished. Perhaps a warning should be given? Any thoughts?—Chris! _ct 01:40, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Just an over-zealous (I don't mean it in the condescending tone) Boston fan I suppose. Maybe he could have sandboxed it instead. Chensiyuan (talk) 02:08, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

While I personally don't see any harm in the template as long as it stays out of the mainspace, it is a violation of an official policy that User:8-Hype was told about yesterday. I'd suggest speedy-deleting the template with {{db-reason}}. If the Celtics win (and probably will), it can be easily re-created by copypasting the material from User:8-Hype/Sandbox#CC Template or User:Chrishomingtang/sandbox. —LOL (talk) 02:18, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is in my sandbox since I planned to create it once the final is over. This is also the why I noticed he created the template. Anyway, I will speedy-delete it now.—Chris! _ct 02:32, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I think people should hold off on all templates until this discussion is closed. Zagalejo^^^ 05:06, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

As of now, I think we should maintain the status quo for consistency. If the discussion results in the need for changes in the future, then we we will make the changes at once to avoid inconsistency. The addition of just one extra template to 62 wouldn't make much of a difference to the workload. —LOL (talk) 05:59, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Agree with User:LOL —Chris! _ct 06:34, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

NBA Draft history article question

Why are some called "(team name) draft history" and some called "List of (team name) first and second round draft picks"? Buc (talk) 19:33, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

In "(team name) draft history" articles all picks are listed while in "List of (team name) first and second round draft picks" only first and second round picks.--Crzycheetah 19:46, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Are there more than two rounds? Buc (talk) 07:59, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

There are two now. There were 10 or more rounds back in 1960s and 1970s, though, so old franchises such as the Lakers (current FLC nominee) have tons of draft picks to list.--Crzycheetah 08:13, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Massive page moves for dashes

I just want to make sure with everybody that it's okay to start placing all the dashes in the article page names where applicable. This would finish off what User:Djsasso started after moving all the NBA season pages (e.g. 2007-08 NBA season → 2007–08 NBA season). —LOL (talk) 04:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Go nuts. Zagalejo^^^ 05:17, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Can we remove the flags from the current roster templates?

They just become a battleground for nationalists. Look at Template:Chicago_Bulls_roster. Ben Gordon has dual citizenship, but we can only show one flag at a time, so people keep switching his nationality between US and UK. Zagalejo^^^ 15:20, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

No. This information is needed, and when a player has dual citizenship, you just take his first (or the National team he has played for). ● 8~Hype ^@ 15:29, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Could we at least modify the template to allow for multiple flags per player? Ben Gordon only lived in England for about a year, [1] and has not yet played for England internationally, so it's silly to suggest that he's "more" British than American. Zagalejo^^^ 15:34, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Ben Gordon would be classified as American according to WP:MOSFLAG#Use of flags for sports people. —LOL (talk) 15:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

What exactly does "sporting nationality" mean? I'm not familiar with that phrase. Zagalejo^^^ 15:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

According to my interpretation, it refers to the country that the player is associated with when they play at the highest level. The highest level at which Gordon has played so far is in the NBA, which is American. —LOL (talk) 16:15, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

That means that Nowitzki is also American. That doesn't make sense. Gordon has played for the British National team, thus he must have the British flag. ● 8~Hype ^@ 19:24, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Nowitzki has played for Germany since 1999. As for Gordon, I'm seeing sources that say he will play for the British basketball team but hasn't in the past. —LOL (talk) 19:34, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Even if Gordon does play for Britain, it seems strange to only show a British flag. Gordon has represented the US at the Pan-American Games [2] and said that he would probably join the US 2012 Olympic team if they asked [3]. Sometimes, you just can't pigeonhole someone into a specific nationality. We either have to allow for multiple flags per player, or do away with the flags altogther. Zagalejo^^^ 22:45, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I see your point. Since that section of MOSFLAG appears to be a recent addition, perhaps it's worth discussing these issues on the talk page? —LOL (talk) 23:53, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I'll probably do that. Zagalejo^^^ 00:01, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

NBA first overall draft pick

Hey, I need some advices on how to nominate this article for featured list status. For the past days, I have revamped the entire list and add references. However, I don't know if the list is ready and how to begin the FL process.—Chris! _ct 22:03, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

You have done a good job! There are many minor issues that should be fixed, though. For instance, the names should be sorted alphabetically by last name (use {{sortname}}). Also, you have dark gray and light gray in every other row, one should be removed,(click on a sort arrow and you'll see why) preferably the dark gray. Lastly, your notes are too small to read. As for the nom. instructions, read here under "Nomination procedure". Good luck!--Crzycheetah 23:03, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks.—Chris! _ct 23:27, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

You should make it clear somewhere that the first three drafts in the list were technically BAA drafts. The league didn't become the NBA until merging with the NBL in fall 1949. (BTW, both Howie Shannon and Andy Tonkovich spent their entire careers in the BAA). I'll look through the list to see if there's anything else I should say. Zagalejo^^^ 00:19, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I did some digging to find out what happened to Clifton McNeeley. It seems like he decided to coach high school basketball in Texas: [4], [5], [6]. Basketball-reference gets a few things wrong: his name was spelled McNeely, and he attended Texas Wesleyan (not Texas Western; Texas Western was the Texas College of Mines and Metallurgy in 1947.) Zagalejo^^^ 01:09, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks —Chris! _ct 01:39, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Note that the actual nomination is here.—Chris! _ct 01:46, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

NBA season statistics leaders

The NBA season articles have a section on the season's statistics leaders, such as the one at 1955–56 NBA season. Although generally accurate, they do not reflect the statistics titles as recognized by the NBA for the seasons before 1969-70. Prior to 1969-70, the statistics titles for scoring, rebounding, and assists were given to the person with the highest totals and not the highest average. So, in the link for 1955-56 above, Maurice Stokes is listed as the leader in rebounding average although the rebounding title went to Bob Pettit, who grabbed 70 more rebounds (and played in five more games) than Stokes in 1955-56. In the interests of historical accuracy, I would like to change the tables before 1969-70 to contain the leaders in totals for these statistics. Let me know if there are any objections. — Myasuda (talk) 01:23, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Career player statistics

I'm planning on generating wikitables for all the active NBA players' statistics. I can put the tables somewhere and we can collaboratively copypaste the code into the articles that should have them. Anybody up for/against it?
But regardless of my plan, can we decide on a standard format for the tables? There's always some variation between the first five featured/good articles I've checked: Duncan, Yao, Abdur-Rahim, Bosh, Nash. Any suggestions? —LOL ^T/_C 00:56, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes there are indeed a variety of tables. It happens too in other projects such as soccer. But I think standardisation is good. I think any table that is modelled closely on NBA.com's is good, although we can dispense with things like efficiency. MVP ranking and number of double-doubles are fun stats to have, but not always easily verifiable. Then there's the question of whether we want just the averages or the totals as well. Chensiyuan (talk) 01:56, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I was thinking the NBA.com model too, but with the following tweaks: right-justified number cells, no leading zeroes, linked years in YYYY–YY format (in spite of WP:MOSDATE#Longer periods, third bullet of Years), and unabbreviated city names that link to the corresponding team. I never considered adding the efficiency, MVP ranking, or double-doubles because any statistic that is absent from NBA.com's multi-column tables seems too trivial to me. Regarding the averages/totals question, I'm quite certain that I want the averages of each season, the career and the All-Star games. However, I'm not sure if I want "Career total" because I'm not sure how important it is. —LOL ^T/_C 02:56, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Here is what I have so far. (An NBA.com bug caused Josh Smith's "Team" column to be empty.) I added a couple of perks: the sortable table and the bold season-highs. I removed the OFF, DEF, TO, and PF columns because I don't find them to be common on Wikipedia. I plan to make a legend template similar to {{NBA roster statistics legend}}, as well as a table heading template to maintain the standard. —LOL ^T/_C 02:48, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

No real gripes. As for totals, I suppose they're more significant when the player is done for the day. But since the retired players' infoboxes reflect total points/rebounds/assists, good enough for me. Chensiyuan (talk) 07:40, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

I've created the templates and generated tables for the Celtics and Bobcats, which can be found at User:LOL/NBA player statistics. Anything before I start shelling them out? If there are any gripes at all, I might be able to resolve them. —LOL ^T/_C 22:43, 28 June 2008 (UTC)