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Archive 50

Archive 51

Mass change from ballpark to home field

There was a recent change to several ballpark articles changing the word "ballpark" to "home field" by Fred Zepelin. This editor unilaterally moved Ballpark to Baseball Stadium a couple of years ago, but it was never discussed further.[1]. This is being discussed at Truist Park| since I noticed the change there, but generally speaking isn't home ballpark/stadium preferable to "home field" when describing ballparks? There was discussion about baseball stadiums vs. ballparks a while back the loose consensus lead to most ballpark articles opening with "baseball stadium" and then using ballpark later on in the lead article as another word for baseball stadium. Nemov (talk) 02:48, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Home field is a common enough idiomatic phrase when describing which team is hosting the visiting team. However in the context of a stadium article, I agree it's more precise to use the term ballpark to describe the function of the stadium. Thus I feel "ballpark of (team X)" is a better summation of the role of the stadium. isaacl (talk) 17:05, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

"Home ballpark" is likely the best phrasing for what Fred was trying to accomplish. The real problem is once more removing the link to the specific ballpark article in favor of the more general stadium article. Yes, ballparks are a type of stadium, but why would one link only the broader article when the more-specific and specialized article exists? oknazevad (talk) 00:51, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I really think we don't need "home" before ballpark... "ballpark of team x" is pretty self explanatory... it would clearly be the home stadium without needing to specifically say that. Spanneraol (talk) 00:58, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

@Fred Zepelin just made more mass changes after they've been reverted. Nemov (talk) 01:00, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I saw that... He mass reverted an IP that seemingly was making correct revisions based on current consensus. Spanneraol (talk) 01:21, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

And the IP got blocked for it. Drmies, I see that IP has been warned for disruptive behaviors, but FZ is the source of the disruptions on this and is ignoring discussion. I warned against edit warring yesterday and they reverted it and today they're right back at it. Nemov (talk) 01:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

It's self-explanatory but it's not idiomatic. Like seriously unidiomatic to the point it sounds awkward. At least to my ear. oknazevad (talk) 22:11, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

How is it not idiomatic? The ballpark of the atlanta braves sounds perfectly fine. .. adding home before ballpark doesnt make it sound any better. Spanneraol (talk) 22:13, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

One might say "the team's ballpark",indicating ownership, but not "the ballpark of the team". The latter is awkward, because it doesn't indicate the specific relationship with regard to the team. A spring training ballpark could be said to be "the ballpark of the team" as well, but it's not their full-time home ballpark. It's much more common to include the word "home" than not in writing. See also the various other sports' stadia articles across Wikipedia. It's not just a baseball thing. But also look at he sources and how they phrase it. The "the ballpark of the [team]" construction is absent. oknazevad (talk) 22:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

You took the words out of my mouth. "Home ballpark" or "home field" is the way I would expect any article on a baseball venue to read. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 00:13, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Ballpark or home ballpark I understand, but making a mass change to "home field" to several parks under the claim "no one has ever said that" is weird. Nemov (talk) 02:24, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

"Home field" is sometimes used, but usually in terms of home field advantage instead of describing a team's home ballpark. oknazevad (talk) 03:06, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Of course, but that's not really being discussed in this context. Nemov (talk) 03:25, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. It's not wrong, per we, but it's not a specific term. And again, removing the ballpark link is unacceptable. oknazevad (talk) 23:55, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

My first inclination was to suggest that the phrase be written as "the home ballpark for (team X)", as I think that avoids implying an ownership relationship (though that would appropriate for some venues such as Dodger Stadium). But in deference to the possibility of regional variation, I think "ballpark of (team X)" is clear enough for all readers. isaacl (talk) 04:14, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

I thought the differences were regional, à la "soda" v. "pop," but an internet search turned up nothing. "Ballpark" is described by most dictionaries and wiktionary as baseball specific whereas home field is generic. I'd lean to using ballpark in the above context, with "home" being used sparingly dependent on the sentence structure. Rgrds. --BX (talk) 04:41, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

I think "home field" is fine, especially because some stadiums are used for more than one sport, like Yankee Stadium, which is how I just stumbled into this. Really I don't see the problem with "home field". I've always thought of ballparks as smaller venues. Yankee Stadium isn't a "ballpark". JimKaatFan (talk) 23:04, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Except baseball stadiums are rarely described as fields... while ballpark is the pretty much uniform designation for them. Yankee Stadium is absolutely a ballpark. Spanneraol (talk) 00:00, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

I mean... it's a stadium. But anyway, why not just say "It is the home of the (whatever team)" and have "home" link to Home (sports), avoiding this kind of silly argument? JimKaatFan (talk) 00:24, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

They don't actually live there.... and they are ballparks. Spanneraol (talk) 03:51, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Home (sports), in this context, is a rather meaningless and unhelpful article. A better descriptive article would be ballpark. Just sayin'. Rgrds. --BX (talk) 03:54, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

I am fine with saying "the home of". Disagree that Home (sports) is unhelpful - it's a perfect definition. But I need to clear up two falsehoods about me that have been repeated multiple times:

• 1. It has been said that I made unilateral mass changes to these articles, and that was pushed by an IP editor that claimed, while rapidly making mass reversions, that I was "the first person to rapidly edit every Major League Baseball stadium article to home field without reaching a consensus in talk." Not true. I was undoing the actual first mass reversion: these edits, done over a span of 2 days, changing the leads of every single MLB stadium to their preferred wording, unilaterally, without a discussion. I undid those and now this IP is pushing a false claim about me. The stable version, for years, of those articles was the one BEFORE those edits I just pointed out. So please stop saying that I was making some mass change on my own, when the actual mass changes were someone else.
• 2. It has been said that I claimed no one uses the word "ballpark". That is absolutely not true, and I've pointed this out more that once. What I said was, no one uses the phrase "it is the ballpark of". Take a look at two Google searches:

"it is the ballpark of" MLB
"it is the home of" MLB
The first result is literally just these Wikipedia articles and mirrors/copy-pastes of these Wikipedia article (check the surrounding verbiage, it's exact). The second result is millions of hits, from all kinds of different sources. It's very clear that "it is the ballpark of" is not a common phrase, and "it is the home of" is. So please, stop using those two fake claims about me in this discussion. It's very misleading. Fred Zepelin (talk) 15:59, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Claiming that your undoing a mass change a year later is a bit much especially when those changes weren't all the same. You installed your preferred version again and again even when they had been challenged. Please stop changing these articles until there's consensus. Nemov (talk) 20:09, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Yea, you should wait and seek a consensus, sometimes can be tyiring wait to get a consensus but is the best for everyone, since it stopps edit wars.

That said, i think you people should try use "Home Ballpark of *The Team* " , field is more used for Gridion football, and as far i know, different sports use different terminollogies.
For exemple: a field in Soccer/Association football is called a Pitch - Meganinja202 (talk) 03:23, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

I support ballpark. It is what virtually every piece of baseball media I have seen refers to these stadiums as. There is even a "MLB Ballpark" app. Seems as though Fred Zepelin has been changing a few articles back to his preferred wording without consensus again. 76.167.122.195 (talk) 04:37, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

I also agree with Nemov that it is disingenuous for Fred Zepelin to claim that changing year old edits that went unchallenged until their own is fair. Please wait until we finish our discussion and reach consensus, before reverting "back". 76.167.122.195 (talk) 05:01, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

• I'm not sure there's a consensus here for any term, but there's significant enough support to justify using "ballpark." I'm noting this in case someone attempts to make a mass change again. This can be handled locally on each baseball park article. Nemov (talk) 20:03, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

It is very weird that Wikipedia pages for MLB players are the only pages without a table of season-by-season stats

I'm not sure why the MLB pages are the only major sport on Wikipedia to not include season-by-season statistics for the players. If we can do it for football, soccer, hockey, and basketball, there's no good reason why MLB should be special and excluded. All the data for those sports are pulled from other sources, so "baseballreference.com" has it isn't an explanation. People don't come to an encyclopedia because they want to be directed to other sources. That's what a search engine is for, not an encyclopedia. Angryapathy (talk) 19:01, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Personally, I find it weird that anyone would spend so much time and effort creating and maintaining stats tables on Wikipedia when sites like the aforementioned baseballreference.com do that already and the strength of Wikipedia is narrative prose. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:02, 13 June 2024 (UTC)