Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Quelccaya Ice Cap/archive1

SandyGeorgia

• A number of ice cores have been obtained from Quelccaya, including two from 1983 which were the first obtained outside of the polar regions. ... can we vary the wording to avoid obtained ... obtained ...

  I've put "recovered" instead. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 21:18, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

  Good, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:26, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

• merging with neighbouring glaciers during the Pleistocene. ... could we say Pleistocene Age ... or add another word to avoid the jargon problem ... by adding some word to explain that this is an age, we don't force the reader to click out to understand what it references.

  Put "epoch"; apparently that's the formal name for such things and quite intuitive for non-experts. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 21:18, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

  Good, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:26, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

• A secondary expansion occurred during either the Antarctic Cold Reversal or the Younger Dryas. ... could we say ... occurred after the last ice age, during either the ... again, to avoid jargon and make it clear that these are different Ages being referenced.

  Added "climate anomalies" as the least incorrect term that I can think of. ~~

  Good, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:29, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

• A number of moraines especially in the Huancané valley testify to past expansions ... does this need punctuation ? A number of moraines –especially in the Huancané valley – testify to past expansions

  Added hyphens. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 21:18, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

  Corrected to WP:ENDASHes :) :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:28, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

• After reaching a secondary highstand during the Little Ice Age, ... the "highstand" here needs some explanation for layreader ... even after clicking on it, I am unsure what a secondary highstand means.

  Added a parens. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 21:18, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

  Good, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:31, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

• It is also known as Quenamari and is sometimes also spelled Quelcaya. (Also is redundant). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:31, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

  Removed. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:57, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  Good, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:55, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

• They often display banded layers that are 0.5–1 metre (1 ft 8 in–3 ft 3 in) thick, flutes or grooves and icicles ... confused by the punctuation. Does this mean to say ... They often display flutes, grooves, icicles or banded layers that are 0.5–1 metre (1 ft 8 in–3 ft 3 in) thick ?? Or does it mean ... They often display banded layers that are 0.5–1 metre (1 ft 8 in–3 ft 3 in) thick, with flutes or grooves and icicles ??? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:47, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

  The latter. I've rewritten this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:57, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  Good, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:55, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

• The largest of these glaciers is the Qori Kalis Glacier, which extends from the northern sector of Quelccaya westwards ... should there be some measure of what makes this glacier the largest ? Length, area, something? In the sentence just before this one, there are short glaciers up to 2 kilometres long ... something for comparison? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:53, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

  As far as I can tell, the most data we have on that glacier are its retreat rate and I am sort of iffy about trying to infer its quantitative size from a map. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:57, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  OK, if sources don't provide it, neither can we. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:02, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

• most of these microparticles originate in the Altiplano ... --> most of these microparticles originate in the Altiplano area of the Andes ... context to avoid clicking out/jargon. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:57, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

  Added it. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:57, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  Good, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:59, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

• Most snowfall occurs during the passage of cold fronts and cold air inclusions and the net amount is a function of the duration of the wet season ... jargon alert --> Most snowfall occurs during the passage of cold fronts and cold air inclusions; the net amount of snowfall depends on the duration of the wet season. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:07, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

  Added this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:57, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  Good, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:01, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

• For the margin of Quelccaya, mean temperatures have been inferred under the assumption that the lapse rate is constant ... a footnote explaining lapse rate might help here for jargon. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:08, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

  Added one. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:57, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  Good, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:01, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

• The ice cores contain annually resolved oxygen isotope ratio variations which for the past millennium, the oxygen isotope ratios recorded at Quelccaya resemble these found in other tropical South American and also Tibetan ice cores ... I can't sort this sentence, something wrong with the punctuation or grammar ?? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:20, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

  Rewrote this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:57, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  Fixed, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:01, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

• An early wet phase occurred between 1500–1720 and a late dry phase between 1720–1880; and that at the ice cap it ended relatively suddenly around 1880. ... ditto, something wrong with the punctuation. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:21, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

  Rewrote this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:57, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  Fixed, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:01, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

• Over interfluves, the border of the ice cap is embayed. We struggled with this sentence when I went through to do MOS corrections and copyediting. Consider the current attention on jargon, something has to happen here, as I am still unsure what this sentence says. Need help with interfluve and embayed. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:49, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

  I don't know. "Curved" isn't precise enough to stand in for "embayed". The sentence is supposed to mean "The borders of the ice cap retreat above the areas between outlet valleys or glaciers" Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:57, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  This one is very hard to understand, and I struggled with it before, so we gotta do something. How about just adding what you just said, like ... Over interfluves, the border of the ice cap is embayed; that is, the borders of the ice cap retreat above the areas between outlet valleys or glaciers. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:16, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  Added it, but I am concerned that folks will want a source for such an interpretation and I wouldn't know where to find one if my life depended on it. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:26, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  Cross that bridge if we come to it ... it can be deleted later if someone complains, but the alternate is that someone will complain about jargon :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:08, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

• From the icefalls, short glaciers up to 2 kilometres (1.2 mi) long descend to elevations of 4,900–5,100 metres (16,100–16,700 ft), with lower elevations reached on the eastern side ... maybe ... ?? ... From the icefalls, short glaciers up to 2 kilometres (1.2 mi) long descend to elevations of 4,900–5,100 metres (16,100–16,700 ft), and even lower on the eastern side.

  That's better; I've put it in. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:57, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  Jo-Jo, it looks like you missed this one? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:05, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  Sorry, it's now in. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:26, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  Done, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:09, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

• The ice cap contains temperate ice ... jargon check, there is no context with this sentence to help me understand what it means or why it matters ... so I was forced to click on temperate ice ... something needed here so the reader is not forced to click out. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:55, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

  Added an explainer. Not sure if a note or a parens is better here. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:57, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  I rephrased to avoid the parens within parens and the i.e. ... please check ? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:55, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  That looks like it's two independent statements. I've turned it into a note. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:26, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  Done, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:11, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Done. Please check all my edits and revert anything stupid. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:35, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Hmm. I am a little iffy on the equilibrium line altitude explainer; formally it divides two parts of a glacier, it isn't the actual snowline, and I don't think we can put the proper definition into a non-jargon form...too many technical terms involved. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:57, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

OK, I removed that one, but this jargon still needs to be resolved somehow. Ideas? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:49, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Good, done,[1] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:22, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

I've put in a note.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:26, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Jo-Jo Eumerus I have moved all of those remaining to the bottom of the list for your re-review. Bst, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:19, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Remaining

• During winter, the albedo of the ice is about 80% ... jargon, albedo, forced to click out to understand the sentence. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:58, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

  Added "reflectivity". Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:57, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  Would "amount of solar radiation reflected as opposed to absorbed" explain it better, or is that an oversimplification? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:59, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  I don't think that oversimplifies, but it's not better. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:26, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  During winter, most solar radiation is reflected off the ice, with an albedo (reflectivity) of 80% ? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:20, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  That seems OK to me. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:28, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  OK, installed that one, [2] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:59, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

• The plateau is surrounded by an escarpment ... --> The plateau is surrounded by an escarpment (steep slope) ... jargon. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:02, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

  Eh, I don't agree that escarpment is too unclear. And escarpment is not always a steep slope. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:57, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  OK, looking at escarpment, it appears that this term covers too many different ideas to easily summarize, but we still have to give the layperson some context. How about something like ... The plateau is surrounded by land forms at different elevations (escarpment) and a number of valleys emanate from the plateau. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:10, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  Sorry, but that sounds like we are talking of hills or slopes. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:26, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  Ok, what if we shortened it to ... The plateau is surrounded by land forms known as escarpments and a number of valleys emanate from the plateau. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:18, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

  @SandyGeorgia: That works as an interim solution. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:54, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

  Done, [3] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:12, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

MONGO are you able to lend a hand on the two issues above? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:15, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Well, as someone who is pretty well versed in geology I have no issue with what an "escarpment" is and not sure we need a qualifier that calls them "landforms known as escarpments" An escarpment is merely an abrupt cliff that lies between two relatively level geographical points. I think a blue link on escarpment is all that is needed in case anyone is unfamiliar with this term. Also not sure why we are discussing albedo? Does this vary greatly from one ice field to another? Perhaps some are more dust covered so they have a lower albedo? I'm not clear on this.--MONGO (talk) 17:38, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

@Jo-Jo Eumerus and MONGO: Since I am not the expert :) I will leave it to you and Jo-Jo to figure that one out ... I also had a problem with embayed. All we need here is something so that the layperson gets a general idea and isn't forced to click on the link to understand the context of the sentence. We have some kerfuffle at FAC about jargon, so we should avoid forcing the reader to click out to understand the context of the sentence, even as they don't need to understand the specifics of the volcanology/geology. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:52, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Wow. I mean, just ... wow. How in the hell did I not notice that this source which supports the Albedo sentence is a preprint that was not accepted for publication. Imma need to fix that. I don't think the albedo sentence is strictly necessary. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:21, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Chipmunkdavis

• • "two, three or four;[30][36][37]" Do these sources all describe two three or four, or are they each a source for a different number? If so it might be better to distribute the sources after the number.
    • Folks above were complaining that having the sources dispersed through the sentence made it hard to read. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:23, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
  • "descend to elevations of 4,900–5,100 metres (16,100–16,700 ft), and even lower on the eastern side" I don't see how Mercer et al. 1974, p. 20. supports this sentence. Thompson & McKenzie 1979, p. 16. gives 4,900 as the lowest point on the east. I don't have access to Mark et al. 2002, p. 289., but would be surprised if glaciers grew between 1979 and 2002.
    • Corrected the statement. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:23, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
  • "It currently forms a separate watershed from Quelccaya." Assuming this is based on "The bedrock of the headwall surrounding Yanacocha prevented inflows of QIC meltwater from entering the lake during the Holocene" from Beal et al. 2014, p. 439. Perhaps the sentence in the article could be adjusted to clarify the meaning for readers less familiar with the implications of something being a separate watershed? Perhaps just adding "...from Quelccaya, filled by rain rather than meltwater" at the end?
    • Yeah, that's the source; added an explanation. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:23, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
  • The "Among animals..." sentence is long and unwieldy, suggest it is broken up.
    • Rewrote this as otherwise it becomes too stubby. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:23, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
  • "Two birds, the white-winged diuca finch and the white-fronted ground tyrant are known to nest on the Quelccaya ice cap", together with "other bird species might also nest on the Quelccaya ice", contradict "Other than this finch, only emperor penguins are known to nest on ice".
    • Corrected. The source for that statement doesn't know that it's two species. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:23, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
  • "Volcanic ash...has been used to date the ice core". Which is "the" ice core?
    • Both, apparently; corrected this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:23, 2 February 2021 (UTC)