Wikipedia talk:Automated taxobox system/Archive 6

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Series

I just came across Template:Taxonomy/Saturniiformes which has rank set to "series" and is just below superfamily in rank. There are a few taxonomy templates for plant series (as a rank below subgenus/sectio), e.g. Template:Taxonomy/Banksia ser. Ochraceae. I know manual taxoboxes have |zoodivisio= and |zoosectio= to account for different placement of plant/animal division/section ranks in the taxonomic hierarchy. And there is a numeric value associated with the rank parameters recognized by manual taxoboxes that ensures they display the hierarchy in the right order. I guess the numeric value isn't used by automatic taxoboxes? The order in which ranks are displayed is determined solely by successive parent parameters?

Should there be a "zooseries" rank? Everything seems to be working OK with the plant/animal series templates I've linked above. I guess series isn't checked by Category:Taxonomy templates showing anomalous ranks since it seems like putting series below both superfamily and sectio would be anomalous one way or the other. Plantdrew (talk) 20:40, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Oops, realized everything is NOT quite working OK. Saturniiformes is italicized by the taxonomy template (which would be correct for the plant rank). Plantdrew (talk) 20:42, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Series is used inconsistently and isn't checked by Module:Autotaxobox (it's commented out on line 821). It is italicised because of Template:Is italic taxon which italicises series, subseries, and section ranks.

A zooseries rank would make sense if there was a need and it was used consistently. Template:Taxonomy/Saturniiformes is used for families Saturniidae and Lemoniidae in Bombycoidea. However, no other series are used in Bombycoidea and the template was created in 2010 with no source. The parent source doesn't use series and Lemoniidae is no longer recognised. I think it can be deleted after changing Template:Taxonomy/Saturniidae. —  Jts1882 | talk  08:40, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

I've changed the parent on Saturniidae, so Template:Taxonomy/Saturniiformes will be unnecessary when the change propagates. —  Jts1882 | talk  08:48, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

I've reviewed the taxonomy of Lepidoptera and cleared out all the old suprafamiliar taxa (except for a few with articles). The taxonomy template heirarchy follows van Nieukerken et al (2011) at family and above, except for a few new families (which are sourced) and a couple I'm still thinking about whether to move or find an alternative source.—  Jts1882 | talk  18:05, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

References

Forma specialis taxa

I recently created a manual taxobox, which is more-or-less ok, at Puccinia coronata f. sp. avenae. There are more articles at this rank: see Category:Forma specialis taxa. The articles I've looked at use two main approaches to a taxobox:

• Alternaria alternata f.sp. cucurbitae uses a manual taxobox, but wrongly since "Alternaria alternata f.sp. cucurbitae" is a trinomial name, not a binomial name.
• Fusarium oxysporum f.sp. asparagi uses {{Subspeciesbox}}, which (a) is meant for ICZN names – {{Infraspeciesbox}} is used for ICNafp names (b) has "Subspecies: F. o. f.sp. pisi" which is clearly wrong.

My recollection is that we discussed adding the rank of form/forma to {{Infraspeciesbox}} and decided not to do so on the grounds that there would be few articles needing it and it would make the template yet more complicated. My preference, I think, is to accept that a forma specialis taxon should use a manual taxobox and revise {{Taxobox}} to accept "forma_specialis" in addition to form/forma so that it can display e.g. "Forma specialis: P. coronata f.sp. avenae".

What do others think? Peter coxhead (talk) 16:34, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

There are a handful of articles on bacteria with different infraspecific ranks. Some are in Category:Pathovars. Bacterial blight of cotton is a pathovar using {{Paraphyletic group}} with custom parameters for the rank. El Tor is a strain, and Escherichia coli NC101 is a serotype, both also using the paraphyletic group template. I think custom rank parameters may be the way to go, perhaps in {{Automatic taxobox}}, since that already has support for custom genus/species/binomials. May also be worth considering whether Wikipedia should even have articles for some of these "taxa". Plantdrew (talk) 19:15, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Custom rank parameters are implemented in {{Paraphyletic group}} via Jts1882's Module:Biota infobox. It can be driven from a differently named template for clarity, but on reflection, this is the best way forward, since Jts1882 has already done almost all the work needed.

@Jts1882: the custom connecting terms appear in smaller font, which isn't the format we use.

Peter coxhead (talk) 21:48, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I have now modified Module:Biota infobox so that it doesn't put connecting terms, like "var." or "f.sp." in smaller font. Peter coxhead (talk) 06:36, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

I've created {{Infraspeciesbox special}} as a more obviously titled front-end to Module:Biota infobox for special infraspecific ranks. So far I've not found any problems. Peter coxhead (talk) 08:20, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

I've now converted a few articles to use {{Infraspeciesbox special}}, which can be checked:

• Bacterial blight of cotton
• El Tor (should, I think, be at "Vibrio cholerae str. El Tor" or at least "Vibrio cholerae El Tor")
• Escherichia coli NC101
• Fusarium oxysporum f.sp. asparagi
• Puccinia coronata f. sp. avenae ("f.sp." without a space seems more common)

I see two issues, which are illustrated by the last example, Puccinia coronata f. sp. avenae:

• The extra/special rank line in the taxobox just has the epithet, but should be preceded by the abbreviated species name plus connecting term: compare the Variety and Forma specialis rows.
• The trinomial box should contain only the last (lowest) infraspecific rank – using all four makes it a "quadrinomial" (and is wrong under the ICNafp).

I won't attempt to alter the code for these issues; it needs input from Jts1882. Peter coxhead (talk) 08:48, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Replies and comments:

• I'm trying to remember why the |infraspecies_rank1= was left bare in the taxobox rather than including the abbreviate species name. For the strain in El Tor it seems reasonable. Should this be V. cholerae str. El Tor (i.e. the abbreviated trinomial name) or does it need different treatment?
• The trinomia/quadrinomial point is noted. I was unaware of the ICNafp convention.
• On using the small text for the connecting terms, I saw this somewhere and thought it a nice convention. It's similar to using small for authorities, in that is makes the different parts of the name clearer, even though its not a convention used much (or at all?) outside Wikipedia. I've no problem with the change, though.

I'll have a look at making the changes when I have time to properly check the results. That bit of code is tricky, not helped by my choice of parameter names, which in retrospect are a bit confusing. —  Jts1882 | talk  09:25, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

I think the trinomial is now correct (no quadrinomial terms). —  Jts1882 | talk  15:25, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

I've made some changes to add abbreviated species names (i.e. G. s.) in infraspecies rows of the taxon hierarchy. Is this as wanted? —  Jts1882 | talk  16:16, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Looks good to me. I noticed a couple parameters that aren't supported, |species_link= and |type_strain=, although I'm not certain they should be supported.

In the absence of |species_link=, bacterial blight of cotton links to a redirect in the species line (Xanthomonas axonopodis redirects to Citrus canker). In that case the solution is probably to create an article for Xanthomonas axonopodis; citrus canker is pv. citri, so there should be an article for the species that has pathovars infecting citrus, cotton and cassava. And I suspect in most cases where we have an article at the common name (of a disease), the title will refer a particular host, in which case there should probably be an article at the species title with subarticles for f.sp./pv. taxa that infect particular hosts. So |species_link= may not be needed at all.

Xanthomonas campestris pv. campestris had a type strain in the manual taxobox which I've retained, but it doesn't display. Infraspecific ranks aren't governed by the rules of the prokaryote code, although it does have recommendations on how to use them. Given that they aren't subject to the rules of the code, I'm not sure that a designation of a type strain really applies, so |type_strain= may not be needed either. Plantdrew (talk) 16:40, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Jts1882: looks good to me too – thanks for the changes.

@Plantdrew: I agree that we should always have a species article for things like f.sp./pv. taxa – and in many cases I suspect that it's better to deal with the subtaxa in that article, rather than creating separate ones. It's not something I interested in working on though – I only got involved because Puccinia coronata f. sp. avenae had been showing up for quite a while in the missing taxobox subcategory of Category:Taxobox cleanup which I monitor regularly, and it finally irritated me enough to try to fix it.

Peter coxhead (talk) 17:10, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

{{Infraspeciesbox special}} has "Trinomial name" linking to Infraspecific name (botany), which is a redirect to Infraspecific name; the redirect should be bypassed (although I don't see much value in having that as a link at all (especially since it's inconsistent; manual taxoboxes for ranks above species and {{Automatic taxobox}} don't have a link like this, it's only for species (as "binomial name") and infraspecies)).

Manual taxoboxes for plant infraspecies also link to Infraspecific name (botany); see e.g. Ulmus × hollandica var. insularum. Manual taxoboxes for animal infraspecies link to trinomen (which redirects to Trinomial nomenclature); see e.g. Onithochiton neglectus neglectus. I'm not sure how related that is to the link in {{Infraspeciesbox special}}; presumably the different links in plants vs. animals with manual taxoboxes is related to the logic that governs the taxobox color, but I just tested {{Infraspeciesbox special}} in an animal article and it linked to Infraspecific name (botany). {{Subspeciesbox}} and {{Infraspeciesbox}} both produce links to "trinomial nomenclature" (see e.g. Kamchatka brown bear and Paeonia daurica subsp. wittmanniana). Plantdrew (talk) 19:42, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

The manual taxoboxes set the link based on the kingdom (see {{taxobox/core}}, line 148), which links to trinomen for animals or to Infraspecific name (botany) for plants and fungi. As I didn't have access to the kingdom, I used the zoological link when using |auto=subspeciesbox and the botanical link when using |auto=infraspeciesbox. The new template {{infraspeciesbox special}} uses the latter. However, I now see that both {{subspeciesbox}} and {{infraspeciesbox}} link to Trinomial nomenclature, the deafult of the switch statement. Perhaps it would be best for all taxoboxes to use that link and remove the kingdom=specific links.

On the parameter comments above, |type_strain= should have been supported, but I hadn't allowed the parameter for the |auto=infraspeciesbox option. It now accepts the parameter with or without the underscore. I've added |species_link= and |species_extinct= and will add |subspecies_link= and |subspecies_extinct= when I find an example to test. As an aside, is parameter |species_link= needed, as there should be redirects for scientific names to common name page titles. —  Jts1882 | talk  07:45, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for these updates/fixes. I guess the only justification for |species_link= is that some of us that have different display colours set for redirects, tend to see a redirect in taxobox as a possible error, so it's tidier to have all the links blue. I accept it's a marginal case. Peter coxhead (talk) 10:17, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Proposal to change parameter names.

Currently the parameters are:

• |infraspecies_rank1= – name of the taxon
• |infraspecies_rank1_name= – name of the rank
• |infraspecies_rank1_abbrev= – abbreviation for separator

I find that confusing as {{para|infraspecies_rank1} can be read as the name of the rank rather than the name of the taxon. So I propose a change to:

• |infraspecies1_name= – name of the taxon
• |infraspecies1_rank= – name of the rank
• |infraspecies1_abbrev= – abbreviation for separator

I can make the code changes leaving the older names, which can be removed later. Or can someone suggest better names? —  Jts1882 | talk  10:01, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

I do agree that the existing parameter names aren't the best, and I prefer the proposed alternatives. It's also more consistent with other parameters to put the number on the first part of the parameter name as in |image_caption= and |image2_caption= or |status_system= and |status2_system= – although these examples suggest that the "1" parameters should have aliases without the "1" for full consistency. Peter coxhead (talk) 10:17, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

I Support the alternative parameter names. Plantdrew (talk) 02:24, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Hovering over the "edit" link

When I hover over the scientific classification edit link in an automatic taxobox (the pencil icon), the mouseover text merely reads "e" instead of "edit". I don't know if this is intended (if so, it is somewhat confusing). If it isn't intended, could it please be fixed? The problem doesn't occur on {{speciesbox}} (where the mouseover text reads "edit"), but it is also present on {{oobox}}, as far as I can tell. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 16:47, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

{{Automatic taxobox}} and {{speciesbox}} both set the mouseover text as a parameter, while {{subspeciesbox}} uses the default in {{Edit taxonomy}}, i.e. "Edit this classification". When discussing the change in the pencil icon, it was suggested we standardise and remove the custom options for the different taxobox templates. I think this is a good idea, using the default "Edit this classification", unless someone has a text suggestion. —  Jts1882 | talk  17:32, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

I've never understood why the mouseover text was a parameter; it goes way back to the creation of the automated taxobox system, so I've just left it when converting to Lua. I strongly agree that it should be removed and a standard text used: "Edit this classification" seems fine to me. Peter coxhead (talk) 08:23, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

I've edit {{Edit taxonomy}} to remove the option for mouseover text and always show "Edit this classification".

However, the |edit link= is still required as it acts as a flag to display the icon in {{taxobox/core}}. An alternative would be to use |parent= as the flag as that is the parameter used to flag the classification hierarchy table. Then the parameter can be removed from the taxobox templates (and the function in the module for automatic taxoboxes). —  Jts1882 | talk  09:13, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

@Peter coxhead: What do you think about eliminateing the |edit link= parameter? —  Jts1882 | talk  15:38, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

@Jts1882: I'm always reluctant to touch {{taxobox/core}} if it can be avoided, but it's odd to have this parameter when it no longer has a real use, so I agree – eliminate it. Peter coxhead (talk) 06:20, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Infobox class use in preloads

I'm working on a project to remove uses of the infobox class and came across the following pages.

1. {{Automatic taxobox/editintro/preload}}
2. {{Automatic taxobox/editintro/preload/?}}
3. {{Automatic taxobox/editintro/preload/??}}
4. {{Automatic taxobox/editintro/preload/incertae sedis}}
5. {{Automatic taxobox/editintro/sameas}}
6. {{Automatic taxobox/floating intro}}

Can someone give me some insight into what the tables at right are being used for (in each, if necessary)? Izno (talk) 04:12, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

@Izno: when an editor creates a taxonomy template, the first five provide a 'skeleton' to be filled in, appropriate to the kind of taxonomy template. E.g. if you created "Template:Taxonomy/FAMILY/?" (where FAMILY is replaced by the name of a family) the second would be used. The last provides the general introduction you get when creating a taxonomy template. Try clicking on Template:Taxonomy/Nonsense.

Do the tables with explanatory examples need class="infobox biota"? Not that I can see; it's just the format chosen by Smith609 in 2011. Peter coxhead (talk) 06:35, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

They are all ancillary templates for the taxobox system and most illustrate part of the taxobox output so use the same classes as the taxobox tables. The use of the infobox class was introduced in 2006 with this edit and the important use is now in {{taxobox/core}}. If the goal is to remove the CSS to templatestyles, is there (or will there be) a generic {{infobox/styles.css}} or should we create a {{taxobox/styles.css}} that can be used in all the taxobox templates? —  Jts1882 | talk  06:45, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

There is already a Module:Infobox/styles.css, yes. It currently lacks the styles found in MediaWiki:Common.css. The objective however is not to call that directly, as doing so will be more work later down the road when I (or maybe some ambitious successor) attempt to change infoboxes to use HTML div rather than table (see also MediaWiki talk:Common.css/to do#Remnants of things). You can start thinking about that now if you want, but this template isn't the only one that would make that difficult right now, and I've been focusing on the easier cases (like the 4k uses in mainspace of the class directly and the non-infobox uses in the template/module spaces). Izno (talk) 18:10, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

most illustrate part of the taxobox output so use the same classes as the taxobox tables This is what I was trying to make sure I understood. Which of the 6 actually do that and which of the 6 are just "consistency with the others"/"pretty styling"? Izno (talk) 18:13, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

30 June 2023 use stats update

30 June 2023 update

Project	Auto	Manual	Total taxa	Percentage auto	# auto added since 30 December 2022	# manual subtracted
Algae	2105	278	2383	88.3	28	5
Amphibians and Reptiles	22170	219	22389	99.0	1189	12
Animals	10084	2058	12142	83.1	396	186
Arthropods	9908	3424	13332	74.3	859	189
Beetles	22341	15703	38044	58.7	1792	1799
Birds	14291	81	14372	99.4	96	3
Bivalves	1660	34	1694	98.0	16	-1
Cephalopods	1999	568	2567	77.9	30	2
Dinosaurs	1632	1	1633	99.9	14	3
Diptera	13385	2642	16027	83.5	712	185
Fishes	23998	1862	25860	92.8	1880	806
Fungi	9643	5684	15327	62.9	690	113
Gastropods	24442	9750	34192	71.5	1766	1603
Insects	52855	25318	78173	67.6	3428	2676
Lepidoptera	69755	28593	98348	70.9	3427	3459
Mammals	8206	153	8359	98.2	155	31
Marine life	7944	1320	9264	85.8	360	148
Microbiology	6244	6693	12937	48.3	484	434
Palaeontology	14090	3736	17826	79.0	387	60
Plants	78452	964	79416	98.8	2561	1006
Primates	980	0	980	100	-1	0
Protista	170	25	195	87.2	67	-4
Rodents	3120	29	3149	99.1	58	1
Sharks	818	49	867	94.3	14	1
Spiders	9698	0	9698	100	223	0
Tree of Life	82	11	93	88.2	3	0
Turtles	754	1	755	99.9	7	1
Viruses	1714	56	1770	96.8	6	2
Total	364568	93154	457722	79.6	18579	11535

Mammal subprojects with articles tagged for both mammals and subproject:

Project	Auto	Manual	Total taxa	Percentage auto
Bats	1597	0	1597	100
Cats	180	0	180	100
Cetaceans	433	0	433	100
Dogs	243	0	243	100
Equine	107	0	107	100

Methods and caveats (copy-pasted from previous update)

Method: For the most part I use Petscan to search for articles with a talk page banner for a particular Wikiproject and either {{Taxobox}}, or any of {{Automatic taxobox}}+{{Speciesbox}}+({{Infraspeciesbox}} and/or {{Subspeciesbox}} (depending on whether botanical/zoological code is relevant)), and record the results. Example search for algae with automatic taxoboxes (search terms are in the Templates&Links tab in Petscan). For viruses, I search for {{Virusbox}} rather than the other automatic taxobox templates. For plants, I sum the results for the Plants, Banksia, Carnivorous plants and Hypericaceae projects. "Total" is derived from the Template Transclusion Count tool (https://templatecount.toolforge.org/index.php?lang=en&namespace=10&name=Speciesbox#bottom e.g. results for Speciesbox), and is not actually sum of the results for individual projects (some articles have talk page banners for multiple Wikiprojects, and would be counted twice if rows were summed). I started compiling these stats in April 2017, and have been updating roughly every six months since December 2017. I've kept my method consistent; perhaps I should have included all of the automatic taxobox templates (Hybridbox, Ichnobox, etc.), but I didn't do so at the beginning, and the other templates aren't used in very many articles. Caveat: The remaining manual taxoboxes in projects with a high percentage of automatic taxoboxes mostly have some kind of "problem". I have periodically reviewed all the manual taxobox articles in projects with less than 220 manual taxoboxes, and chose not to convert them to automatic taxoboxes at that time (however, it has been awhile since my last review, so there probably a few recently included articles I haven't reviewed). "Problems" may include: Fossil taxa; fossil classifications may be derived from multiple sources and present classification on Wikipedia may include mutually incompatible hypotheses. Fossil taxa are often not be linked from extant parent taxa. Synonymy; there is some obvious synonymy issue; e.g., a species is in a genus which redirects (as a synonym) to another genus; maybe the species article needs to be moved or maybe the genus should be reinstated Common names; articles with common name titles may not correspond to taxa, but still have manual taxoboxes. In some cases {{Paraphyletic group}} may be appropriate, in others the taxobox should be removed Parasite and pathogens; article on parasites and pathogens may be tagged for the WikiProject of the organisms they infect. Higher level taxonomy templates for the parasites may not yet exist, and the classification presented in manual taxoboxes may not be up to date.

Parrosaurus is the only dinosaur with a manual taxobox, may end up being merged. Solitudo is only turtle now (and not linked from stated parent Testudinidae) but Hoan Kiem turtle had a manual taxobox last time around and IMHO shouldn't have a taxobox of any kind. I don't know what's going on with beetles and Lepidoptera; the total for beetles is down by 7 since last time, and down by 32 for Lepidoptera. Perhaps a bunch of articles on synonyms have been merged, or maybe I made a mistake in my last update. Primates has total articles down by 1. The -1 value for bivalve manual taxoboxes removed means that there is one more article with a manual taxobox than last time. For protists -4 is due to more articles being tagged for the project (many relevant articles are still untagged).

Progress the last 6 months was slower than it has ever been since I started tracking "# manual subtracted" (in June 2021), and is likely slower than it has been since I began these reports in 2017. I had been responsible for a large number of manual subtractions due to my efforts to implement automatic taxoboxes for plants, but plants are almost done now so my contributions have dwindled (although I still am making some efforts to implement automatic taxoboxes in various groups of organisms). Progress on fish had been stalled for awhile but picked back up in the last 6 months.

I have some detailed notes breaking remaining plant manual taxoboxes down by family at User:Plantdrew/Plant automatic taxobox progress. Less detailed notes at User:Plantdrew/Animal automatic taxobox progress that break animals down by phylum, and insects and fishes by order. Plantdrew (talk) 19:53, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Suggestion for policy regarding lists of synonyms; chronological > alphabetical

Presently, the only guidance I can find regarding the format for a list of synonyms is here, and as a practicing taxonomist, I find the given example runs exactly counter to the convention in all scientific catalogues of names. That is, in catalogues (print catalogues, not databases), synonyms are always given in chronological order, never alphabetical. The example given puts the two names in alphabetical order, rather than chronological. That approach is confusing, to be honest, and not nearly as useful as a chronological listing. This is increasingly important as the list of names gets longer. It is also especially important when one or more of the names in the list of synonyms is OLDER than the name in use for the taxon; this situation in taxonomy is rare, and it is especially noteworthy, but it is only readily visible when the list is chronological. I would like to suggest that Wikipedia should expressly adopt a policy to follow chronological order for lists of synonyms, as there does not presently appear to be any formal policy at all, and in the absence of an existing policy, perhaps establishing one will not be controversial. If necessary, I can raise this topic over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tree of Life, but this seems like the correct place to start the discussion, at least. Dyanega (talk) 18:09, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

• I too prefer the advantages of the chronological listing of synonyms, and would support changing the format in the example listing, and stating there explicitly that this is the desired format. Esculenta (talk) 18:59, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

@Esculenta:, I haven't paid much attention to how Species Fungorum arranges synonyms. I see there's one view with them alphabetical and another with them chronological (and with homotypic synonyms grouped together). Is the chronological order a recent feature? Is the alphabetical order something that will be maintained or discontinued? Are the chronological views (GSD) available for all species? I'm confused why the record for Anaptychia ciliaris has a link (only) to the alphabetical list and the record for Aspergillus glaucus has a link (only) to the chronological/GSD list (although lists in both arrangements exist for both species and can be found by pasting the appropriate ID into the appropriate URL for a particular arrangement). Plantdrew (talk) 19:56, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

• I don't really know the details, but it looks like in cases where Species Fungorum get their synonymy data from external Global Species Databases, they get ordered chronologically, with each entry linked. If the synonymy data comes from Index Fungorum, it's in alphabetical order and not linked. I hadn't even noticed before that both arrangements could be had with different URLs, so thanks for pointing that out (I will definitely be linking to the "better" synonymy list from now on). Esculenta (talk) 21:00, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

• Dyanega This is best raised at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tree of Life where the most amount of eyes will see it and will encompass the ICNafp editors as well, rather then possibly missing them.--Kevmin § 19:17, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
• The example isn't alphabetical OR chronological. I think this would be better to discuss at TOL (while the page is watched by ICNafp editors, I'm not sure that the proposal was made with ICNafp editors in mind; the arrangement of a chronological list would appear un-intuitive if dates are omitted, and synonym lists in plant articles rarely include dates). Plantdrew (talk) 19:40, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

I hadn't realized that botanists omitted the years from synonym lists. That would certainly change the recommended policy based on Kingdom. So, your recommendation is to start a thread on WT:TOL, then? Dyanega (talk) 20:50, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes, this should be at TOL for visibility needs.--Kevmin § 22:00, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

@Dyanega:, botanists do include years in the types of publications I think you're referring to (revisions, monographs, etc.) and do order synonyms chronologically in those publications. Lists of synonyms in Wikipedia articles on plants don't typically include years (and are generally sourced from databases that arrange synonyms alphabetically, and which may not include years (or any publication details) in the view of the synonyms of a particular accepted species (the database may have year/publication details if you click through to the record for a particular synonym). Sorting lists of plant synonyms chronologically would entail significant effort in adding years to the lists before the list could even be re-sorted. For animals, the years would already be present as part of the standard zoological authority citation. Plantdrew (talk) 22:39, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

• The synonym section in the taxobox often isn't used for a formal list of synonyms, at least for higher taxa. Often or possibly most of the time it's just some of the more common ones. Would this policy encourage putting complete synonym lists in the taxobox? While I prefer chronological order as it provides information on the history, a lot of the commonly used sources are databases that use alphabetical order. —  Jts1882 | talk  06:37, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

New thread has been started, Thanks. Dyanega (talk) 23:49, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Template deletes?

Is there a way to delete taxonomy templates that are no longer in use? The fungal family Arthopyreniaceae is now considered to be a synonym of Trypetheliaceae, so we no longer need its associated taxonomy template. MeegsC (talk) 21:06, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Blank the code and add the template to Category:Unnecessary taxonomy templates. Plantdrew (talk) 21:10, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Small bug with display_parents

In this edit of Arbutus andrachne, |display_parents= had the value as Arbutoideae. The taxobox displays subfamily Arbutoideae, which is 2 parents up from the species. I experimented a little, and it appears that any (?) non-numeric value for |display_parents= results in displaying 2 parents (I tried alphabetic and non-alphanumeric characters). It's not a big deal, but it is strange behavior. Plantdrew (talk) 03:23, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Looks like the expression (#expr) on line 46 of {{speciesbox}} returns an error when there is not a number and that is passed to the module as value of |display_taxa= instead of the default zero. The tonumber() at line 111 of Module:Autotaxobox returns nil rather than the expected/default zero and that sets displayN to 2 instead of 1, which is the intended default for {{speciesbox}}, whereas in Module:Automated_taxobox |display_taxa= defaults 1, which sets displayN to 2. The fix needs to be in {{speciesbox}} and the expression error. Those parse functions are horrible to deal with. —  Jts1882 | talk  09:04, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Should clades be included in this template? If so, where?

I recently came across the Wikipedia article for clades, and a lot of Wikipedia articles for the Tree of life are missing this more modern take on taxonomy. I think it should probably be part of a template, but I'm not sure how it should be laid out. It would be great if an editor with more knowledge or official authority on this topic could comment on this. Galactiger (talk) 11:56, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. The taxonomy templates accept "clade" as a rank, which is used extensively. See, e.g., the classification at Template: Taxonomy/Dinosauria. Peter coxhead (talk) 12:07, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

New Zealand moth genus Rhathamictis

I've attempted to create a taxonomic template for this genus but for some reason it doesn't seem to be generating correctly. Could someone more knowledgable than me suggest ways in which I can rectify this? Thanks in advance for the assistance. Ambrosia10 (talk) 21:37, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

@Ambrosia10, I just think you had the breaks wrong. Fixed now. YorkshireExpat (talk) 21:50, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your help! Much appreciated. Ambrosia10 (talk) 22:07, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Not allowed to create new template for new article

Hi, I'm trying to make a taxonomy template for my first article Bubodens, but when I try to create it I get a permission error with "Due to the high impact of editing taxonomy templates, it has been decided to disallow new users to edit them...." How can I get this taxonomy template made for my page? Mojoceratops66 (talk) 08:17, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

@Mojoceratops66: I saw your draft was accepted and created the speciesbox. You can always use the old manual {{taxobox}} system, and someone (like me) will come along and make the automated version. Or ping me and I'll be happy to do it. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:32, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you!! Mojoceratops66 (talk) 16:21, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

@Mojoceratops66: You can also ping me. Actually, if you just leave an article with a non-functioning automated taxobox (I understand why editors are reluctant to do this), the article will appear in one or more of the subcategories of Category:Taxobox cleanup, which a number of us monitor regularly, and the taxobox will get fixed. After you've been editing a while you will be able to create taxonomy templates. Peter coxhead (talk) 12:40, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

30 December 2023 use stats update

30 December update

Project	Auto	Manual	Total taxa	Percentage auto	# auto added since 30 June 2023	# manual subtracted
Algae	2163	227	2390	90.5	58	51
Amphibians and Reptiles	22524	206	22730	99.1	354	13
Animals	11167	1158	12325	90.6	1083	900
Arthropods	10774	3067	13841	77.8	866	357
Beetles	24731	13421	38152	64.8	2390	2282
Birds	14358	62	14420	99.6	67	19
Bivalves	1674	32	1706	98.1	14	2
Cephalopods	2009	566	2575	78.0	10	2
Dinosaurs	1643	0	1643	100	11	1
Diptera	14160	2165	16325	86.7	775	477
Fishes	24408	1671	26079	93.6	410	191
Fungi	10655	5171	15826	67.3	1012	513
Gastropods	27510	7224	34734	79.2	3068	2526
Insects	57978	20719	78697	73.7	5123	4599
Lepidoptera	74631	23766	98397	75.8	4876	4827
Mammals	8301	144	8445	98.3	95	9
Marine life	8723	672	9395	92.8	779	648
Microbiology	6971	6030	13001	53.6	727	663
Palaeontology	14779	3474	18253	81.0	689	262
Plants	79920	611	80531	99.2	1468	353
Primates	979	0	979	100	-1	0
Protista	380	80	460	82.6	210	-55
Rodents	3137	28	3165	99.1	17	1
Sharks	829	45	874	94.9	11	4
Spiders	10040	0	10040	100	342	0
Tree of Life	89	6	95	93.7	7	5
Turtles	759	0	759	100	5	1
Viruses	1722	55	1777	96.9	8	1
Total	383888	76708	460596	83.3	19320	16446

Mammal subprojects with articles tagged for both mammals and subproject:

Project	Auto	Manual	Total taxa	Percentage auto
Cats	186	0	186	100
Cetaceans	439	0	439	100
Dogs	241	0	241	100
Equine	109	0	109	100

Methods and caveats (copy-pasted from previous update)

Method: For the most part I use Petscan to search for articles with a talk page banner for a particular Wikiproject and either {{Taxobox}}, or any of {{Automatic taxobox}}+{{Speciesbox}}+({{Infraspeciesbox}} and/or {{Subspeciesbox}} (depending on whether botanical/zoological code is relevant)), and record the results. Example search for algae with automatic taxoboxes (search terms are in the Templates&Links tab in Petscan). For viruses, I search for {{Virusbox}} rather than the other automatic taxobox templates. For plants, I sum the results for the Plants, Banksia, Carnivorous plants and Hypericaceae projects. "Total" is derived from the Template Transclusion Count tool (https://templatecount.toolforge.org/index.php?lang=en&namespace=10&name=Speciesbox#bottom e.g. results for Speciesbox), and is not actually sum of the results for individual projects (some articles have talk page banners for multiple Wikiprojects, and would be counted twice if rows were summed). I started compiling these stats in April 2017, and have been updating roughly every six months since December 2017. I've kept my method consistent; perhaps I should have included all of the automatic taxobox templates (Hybridbox, Ichnobox, etc.), but I didn't do so at the beginning, and the other templates aren't used in very many articles. Caveat: The remaining manual taxoboxes in projects with a high percentage of automatic taxoboxes mostly have some kind of "problem". I have periodically reviewed all the manual taxobox articles in projects with less than 207 manual taxoboxes, and chose not to convert them to automatic taxoboxes at that time (however, it has been awhile since my last review, so there probably a few recently included articles I haven't reviewed). "Problems" may include: Fossil taxa; fossil classifications may be derived from multiple sources and present classification on Wikipedia may include mutually incompatible hypotheses. Fossil taxa are often not be linked from extant parent taxa. Synonymy; there is some obvious synonymy issue; e.g., a species is in a genus which redirects (as a synonym) to another genus; maybe the species article needs to be moved or maybe the genus should be reinstated Common names; articles with common name titles may not correspond to taxa, but still have manual taxoboxes. In some cases {{Paraphyletic group}} may be appropriate, in others the taxobox should be removed Parasite and pathogens; article on parasites and pathogens may be tagged for the WikiProject of the organisms they infect. Higher level taxonomy templates for the parasites may not yet exist, and the classification presented in manual taxoboxes may not be up to date.

The template for the Bats taskforce was merged into the template for WikiProject Mammals since my last update. I can't track bats separately anymore, but they had been at 100% automatic taxoboxes for a couple years now. WikiProject Protista is slowly being added to more articles; there has been an increase in the number of tagged protist articles with manual taxoboxes. Primates has one less article than it did last time; perhaps a taxon has been lumped and an article merged.

All projects are now over 50% automatic taxoboxes and the majority are now over 90%.

I have some detailed notes breaking remaining plant manual taxoboxes down by family at User:Plantdrew/Plant automatic taxobox progress. Less detailed notes at User:Plantdrew/Animal automatic taxobox progress that break animals down by phylum, and insects and fishes by order. Plantdrew (talk) 03:10, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Have you numbers on the number of new manual taxoboxes added, what percentage of all new taxoboxes they make, and the projects still using them? —  Jts1882 | talk  09:18, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

@Jts1882:, there isn't any easy way to get new manual taxoboxes by WikiProject. A PetScan search for articles with taxoboxes sorted by "not at all"/descending shows recently created articles. Of the most recent 20, 7 are moths, 3 fungi, 3 beetles, 2 arthropods, 2 eukaryote incertae sedis, 1 gastropod, 1 insect (Hymenoptera), and 1 (fossil) bird. Single editors (different ones) were responsible for 6 of the moths, 3 beetles, 2 fungi, 2 arthropods and 2 eukaryotes. 8 of the 20 are species and 12 are higher taxa.

82 articles with manual taxoboxes were created between 30 June 2023 and 30 December 2023. Assuming the difference between # auto added and # manual subtracted represents newly created articles (it mostly should), 2874 articles with automatic taxoboxes were created since June 2023. 82+2874=2956. 82 is 2.8% of 2956. Existing articles do occasionally get converted from automatic taxoboxes to manual by editors who want to update the classification without understanding how taxonomy templates work, but that number is negligible.

I guess the take away is that there are a small number of editors creating articles with manual taxoboxes, and they are mostly working in groups where uptake of automatic taxoboxes is relatively low. Groups with low uptake of automatic taxoboxes are going to be missing many taxonomy templates needed to create speciesboxes, but the articles being created with manual taxoboxes are mostly higher taxa, so having taxonomy templates in place probably isn't going to help very much (of the 8 species in the most recent 20, only 1 was in a genus that has an existing taxonomy template). Plantdrew (talk) 16:25, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

7214 articles were created with manual taxoboxes since 10 April 2017, which is when I started tracking stats on automatic taxoboxes. That was a little after automatic taxobox use really started to take off (but well before it was the norm; 13.2% of articles had an automatic taxobox at that point). So less than 10% of articles with manual taxoboxes were created after concerted efforts to use automatic taxoboxes began (obviously there are some articles that were created since 2017 with manual taxoboxes that have now been converted). Plantdrew (talk) 16:58, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

I guess a better date to pick would be 30 August 2018, when the RFC about preferring automatic taxoboxes closed. There are 3970 articles created with manual taxoboxes (and which still have them) since 30 August 2018. Plantdrew (talk) 21:16, 18 January 2024 (UTC)