Wikipedia:WikiProject Food and drink/Archive 1

Archive for Talk pages on WikiProject Food and drink older than 30 Days

Recipes

We seem to be getting quite a few recipe and cookbook articles on Wikipedia. Perhaps they should be turned into a WikiProject, so we can come up with standard formats for ingredients, cooking instructions, categorization, etc. Anyone game? -- Wapcaplet 14:46 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I'm not sure these belong here. There are thousands and thousands of recipes (I remember a program called MealMaster in the old Fido/Usenet days, where you could import about fifty new recipes per day). IMHO in the context of Wikipedia articles about food should discuss the history, cultural significance etc. and briefly describe how a certain food is produced, in general terms. Detailed recipes could be put on another Wikipedia website. I would suggest that people interested in recipes join the recently created textbook-l mailing list because a free cookbook seems like an effort that could be well integrated with that project. --Eloquence 15:00 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I would tend to agree. A textbook (or even a dedicated wiki) sounds like the best place for recipes. What should be done with all the recipe articles we already have? They've been under some controversy and occasionally listed on VfD for a while now. -- Wapcaplet 15:21 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I rather like the recipe articles, if for no deeper reason than that many are linked from articles about local cultures and in turn link to articles about ingredients. A lot of cookbooks (printed and online) repeat misinformation about a recipe's connections to culture and food items, WP is^H^Haspires to be the source of truth, so is a good place for a "definitive" recipe, but maybe not so good for a Wolfgang Puck creation that is only on a menu for a couple of weeks. BTW, it's one of the few parts of Wikipedia that my wife finds worthwhile, recipes are a good way to get some general visibility. Stan 16:29 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I think someone proposed Wikipedia:WikiProject Food and Drink a while back. Go for it, I reckon. Certainly no encyclopedia would be complete without a recipe for mayonnaise... :) Martin 17:01 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Against recipes.

It's crucial to distinguish between a recipe and a food article. A food article is on a meal which is significant to a culture in the eyes of many, domestic and/or foreigners. Nearly all recipes presently on WP do not fit in to the food-article criteria.

Mayonnaise and takoyaki, of course, deserves to be in encyclopedia, for they are encyclopedic food article. And note also, that many food-articles, such as above two, do not contain recipe at all. Perhaps they need one, perhaps they can't have one because of the wide variations due to their popularity.

Recipes on food without significant history -- for example, hotcooked morning Bulgarian mayonnaise -- should be relocated (not deleted) to culinary art textbook on Textbook.Wikipedia.org

--Menchi 23:01 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)

i think that's the right approach. Some food items or dishes require articles: they're popular, culturally significant, or just a "classic". If there is an article, we should describe how it is prepared: thus, give a recipe. -- Tarquin 12:26 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

It's quite correct that many dishes require articles, and that those articles should describe how the dishes are prepared. But it does not follow that we should give a recipe. A recipe is just one person's method for preparing a dish, and to give that person's method precedence over others is a violation of the NPOV policy. -- Oliver P. 08:34 6 Jul 2003 (UTC)

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Interested Wikipedians are asked to jump right into the Wikipedia Gastronomique and help out with design stages of this cookbook.
Kpjas 17:01 11 Jul 2003 (UTC)

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I like how the Orange (fruit) article have links to food and list of fruits, maybe this committee could apply that to other articles. —Noldoaran (Talk) 02:02, Dec 23, 2003 (UTC)

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A policy design is currently taking place at Wikipedia:Recipes proposal. SweetLittleFluffyThing 00:25, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Cuisines

For a discussion on the naming and format of articles on cuisines, see Talk:Cuisine, Template:Cuisine, etc. --Joy [shallot] 21:13, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Restart

This WikiProject represents an aspect of Wikipedia that is pretty lacking. I'd like to kickstart it. I'm trying to think of notability standards for wines, chefs, restaurants, and recipes that we can make into policy. Any ideas? --DDG 22:55, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Wikibooks Cookbook

The Wikibooks Cookbook could use more contributors. Please come help! Kellen ^T 15:22, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Foodservice

I've recently started WikiProject Foodservice, dealing with the commercial and institutional end of food, including restaurants, catering operations, and foodservice distributors. Currently, we're tagging restaurant articles and would like to be considered as either a sister or child project of WikiProject Food and drink.

Please come hang out with us at Wikipedia:WikiProject Foodservice or on freenode at #wikipedia-foodservice and let me know what you think. CQJ 00:52, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

What about the emerging subject of food heritage sites, food-themed museums and general food history topics. --Foodmuseumguy 05:04, 31 July 2006 (UTC)Tom

Tea

Tea is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy 22:51, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Medieval cuisine

I've started a new article on cuisine of the Middle Ages. Comments and additions are highly appreciated.

Peter ^Isotalo 13:13, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Subprojects?

I regret to say that Wikipedia:WikiProject Bread is up for deletion because it was unable to gain any other members. It, and several other potential related projects, might well never really get created. Would this group perhaps be interested in developing task forces or work groups to deal with these specific fields of food and drink? Thank you in advance for your response. Badbilltucker 20:16, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, why not just fold the bread efforts into here? We could certainly use extra editors interested in food topics. --MCB 22:52, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Import now enabled on wikibooks

Just so the wikipedia food writers are aware, we're hoping to do recipe transwikis using the import tool rather than as copy/paste.

• If you're looking for recipes that have been transwikied, see b:Special:Log/import.
• If you'd like to have a recipe transwikied, please add it to Wikibooks:Requests for Import.

--SB_Johnny|^talk|_books 16:43, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 20:40, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Project templates

I noticed that you didn't have any templates yet, so created a pair of them. Please make any changes you wish, or, if you wish, delete both. Thank you. Badbilltucker 20:22, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Looks good. I'll add an Assessment one. --MCB 06:20, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Is this WikiProject still active?

I went through a number of food-related articles and noticed that there was no project that seemed associated with them. Is this project still in active use? I figure that WikiBook's Cookbook project is drawing more attention, but while we may not be focusing on the exact recipes, we could certainly focus on the encycopedic content of food and drink. :)

Anywho, I hope there's still some activity here. I'd love to see the culinary articles get some more loving. --Brad Beattie ^(talk) 03:03, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm hoping it is but so far there hasn't been any communications or organization of any sort. I'm working on several food/drink related articles, maybe I should put them as projects here? Care to help? Sjschen 07:48, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

By all means. I'm mainly focusing on WP:WERS at the moment, but that's more administrative if anything. So yeah! Let's get this thing rolling! :) I think I'll start by polishing up the project page, as it's a little rusty at the moment. Sound good? --Brad Beattie ^(talk) 13:45, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I personally think that this project might well focus in the short term more specifically on the "solid food" part of its scope. I have recently tried to revitalize the Wikipedia:WikiProject Soft drinks, and have proposed there that the scope of the project be expanded to include all non-alcoholic drinks. If this gets approved by the membership there, it might in effect put all 'drinks" under the heading of one of the existing alcoholic and non-alcoholic beverages projects. But I would still love to see this project become a bit more active in dealing with the "solid food" articles, many or most of which don't currently have any active supervising project. Badbilltucker 14:14, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with focusing on "solid food" (as in food and not in beverages). I'll put up a few articles that I have been focusing a lot of my attention on now and in the past. Sjschen 20:41, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Assessments

The project is now set up for assessments. Please feel free to assess the articles when and where you see fit. I'll also try to get to them myself, when I finish the various other projects in my "to-do" list. Badbilltucker 22:16, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Excellent! Much thanks. --MCB 01:13, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Good Article Review for Banana

I'm going to put Banana up for WP:GA/R shortly - the criteria I'm concerned about is 2a and 2b. Please improve the article to meet those standards, and assume good faith. - Malkinann 23:43, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Narrowing our scope

Since WikiProjects for soft drinks, beer, wine, and cocktails now exist, I'd like to see if we can gain some critical mass by narrowing the scope of this project to food (cuisines, cooking, food substances and ingredients, restaurants, and notable people involved in food-related subjects such as chefs, authors, and restaurateurs). This avoids unproductive overlap and helps us keep focus. Comments? --MCB 05:30, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I think it would be better to have the broad scope and keep this WikiProject as more of an overseer to the sub-projects. Take WikiProject Science and all of its sub-projects as a prime example of this. Would this be in the best interest of the project? I guess that would leave the specific details of the whole spectrum of consumption to sub-projects, with this one filling in the gaps. --Brad Beattie (talk) 06:15, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I tend to agree with Brad Beattie on this. I did notice the distinct lack of food-related sub-projects in the FOOD and Drink project (though there is ice cream). I don't like the idea of weakening a group by splitting it up more, but perhaps developing a cuisine sub-project would be productive. Food seems a bit too broad, but cuisine focuses the topic in nicely (it was the key word I picked out of those you mentioned). Cuisine is fun. Everyone has a favorite style, knows of favorite dishes within the style. Careful watch would have to be maintained to avoid becoming a cookbook, much like the cocktails area was before I started cleaning it up (it still needs a lot of work if anyone is so inclined to help). WikiBooks has a nice cookbooks section, and I'd encourage two-way dialog with those folks to see if we can get some trans-wiki buzz going. Back to this project, I know it would be helpful to have a helpful central group that helps to set general tones, styles, templates, and offer an inter-project forum. I think is also a good use of the project to try to help stir up activity in the sub-projects. Cocktails is largely a one-person show right now (me), which I do not think is right. Tea and Soft Drinks are flagged as inactive projects. This project should be helping to revive and grow those projects. I think that F&B is like a national organization, and all the sub projects are the regional affiliates. Chaning the focus of F&B to mostly food would break that structure, and I for one would miss that connection. Just my thoughts on the subject. --Willscrlt 09:54, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I have recently faced a similar question regarding Wikipedia:WikiProject Religion. There, I phrased the project page in such a way as to indicate that the project in a broad sense deals with all articles that fall within the scope of the project, and more specifically focuses on those articles which do not fall within the scope of any of the sibling or child projects. By using such phrasing, you can preserve the original scope of the project, while still allowing the child projects to have general sway over the articles in their scope. Also, if any of the other projects collapses through either inactivity or deletion, you can step in and resume active involvement in those articles. Badbilltucker 16:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 22:37, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

How to rename Cocktails to Mixed Drinks

Hello. It has been suggested (by someone other than me even) that the WikiProject Cocktails be renamed to WikiProject Mixed Drinks. I am all for that idea, because now that the List of cocktails has been properly split into multiple, more accurate and specific lists, classifying the Project by only one style of mixed drink is misleading. It would seem logical that more than one WikiProject under Food and drink might wish to identify an article as associated with the Project, and we certainly have no problem sharing the association with other projects (even non-F&D ones if it makes sense).

I would also like to clarify the distinction (at least the one I see) between non-alcoholic mixed drinks and soft drinks. There is also some overlap between Beer mixes and Beer and Wine mixes (still to be created) and Wine. Naturally I want to avoid any "turf wars" or bruised feelings. Essentially, I see the distinction as being when the primary ingredient (whether distilled spirit, beer, wine, soda, or whatever) is mixed with some other drink or drink mixer. Many of these are already considered "cocktails", even if not true cocktails (which includes only drinks where a distilled spirit is the main ingredient), such as "virgin cocktails" and several beer and mixes, punches, etc. It also includes things like Eggnog where the main ingredient is a dairy product, and alcohol is an entirely optional ingredient.

This is not about expanding our "territory", but rather properly classifying the drinks we already watch over. The only case of expansion would be into Drinkware, which is closely related to mixed drinks (especially in the glassware that is named after the mixed drinks originally served in such vessels). I have some ideas of how to improve that section, and I think it would be good to include (but not in an exclusive fashion) this segment of Wikipedia articles that currently is not overseen by any other WikiProject.

I would imagine that to institute such a change, it will involve discussion and consensus building within the Project itself. I do not know if there needs to be any other type of discussion elsewhere. I think I read somewhere (can anyone point me to it?) that new WikiProjects have to go through an approval process. I did not know if changes to an approved project also have to be approved in a similar manner.

One final note is that I am trying to either create a mixed drink assessment system patterned after the F&D system, which is part of the larger assessment project. I would appreciate input from anyone with experience building the templates for this. IT would be nice to see a template that each F&D project could use to identify articles, and if multiple projects share the article, have that built into the template through a variable (see WP:TB's fantastic template for how they integrate several other projects in with their one template).

Thanks. --Willscrlt 04:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Having received no response, I took the initiative and created a discussion and straw poll to initiate the change. I'd still like some input on if this is the correct procedure or not. Please comment on the new discussion page to avoid splitting the conversation into multiple locations. Thanks. --Willscrlt 09:27, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Some lists that may be of interest

• List of brand name food products
• List of brand name confectionery products
• List of brand name soft drinks products

ShakespeareFan00 18:15, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Natto

I was surprised to discover that out of all the foods and drinks in the entire world you could have chosen to use for your project banner, you've chosen a wonderfully appetizing bowl of natto. I'm just entertained is all. Cheers for natto! LordAmeth 12:27, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Sources

I have started a page Wikipedia:WikiProject_Food_and_drink/sources which is an annotated and classified bibliography of sources that might be useful for food and drink articles. These should be sources which are relevant for many articles, not just one or a handful. The annotations should describe the strenghs and weaknesses of each source; a source may be very good for, say, Egyptian foods but weak for Iraqi foods. I started this list when I saw that Toussaint-Samat was cited in several articles, but she is a terrible source, full of hearsay and legends and light on source references. I'd appreciate others' feedback on the idea and of course contributions to the bibliography itself. --Macrakis 20:16, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Missing topics

I have a short list of missing topics related to food. I habe tried to find if any of the titles aöready have an equivalent article in Wikipedia, but I'd be grateful if anyone of you could have a look at it. - Skysmith 10:55, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Food infobox templates

Since there didn't seem to be any master list of food-related infoboxes, I've been making one. You can see what I've found so far at Category:Food infobox templates. If I've missed any, please let me know, or go ahead and add them. At some point we should add more help information to those templates. There's also quite a bit of overlap, so we might want to look at standardizing the information before things fork out too far. --Elonka 22:06, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Chicken (food)

Is the Chicken (food) article a part of this WikiProject? I couldn't find any information on its main page or talk page that it was part of this WikiProject, and the article could use some more work. Also, I'd like to be a part of this WikiProject, so if someone could give me more information on how I can join, I'd appreciate it.--Grendlefuzz 14:45, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I just joined myself, but all WikiProjects are the same; if you want to join, just sign up at the project page. As for chicken (food), it seems to me as it is well within the scope of the project.

Peter ^Isotalo 15:05, 3 March 2007 (UTC)