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Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 273

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I would like to know a good source that i can use to list episode names from the wwe network

When i submitted my article the one that edited said that imd was not the best place to use as a source and was wondering if their is a place i could find the episodes on the wwe network somewhere other then theirWrestlepro112 (talk) 16:46, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi Wrestlepro112, welcome to the Teahouse, yes you are right IMDb is not a good reference as it's mainly based on user generated data. Anyway I suggest you check their official website. Or you can use sites like tv.com. What about this link. Does it contain the data you need? I'm not familiar with WWE shows, So I might not be the best person to help you out.--Chamith (talk) 17:25, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
No this does not work this is not one that is shown on tv is is part of their own network that they have so this does not really workWrestlepro112 (talk) 17:34, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
It's best to look for other independent websites or newspapers or magazines that mention the WWE Rivalries show specifically. If there is detailed coverage of WWE Rivalries in newspapers or magazines or other independent and reliable website, then it might be possible for Wikipedia to have an article about it. If not, Wikipedia won't have an article about it, so it would be better to improve other WWE articles instead. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:30, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Jagermeister machine

I have been looking for information on Jagermeister machines, more specifically, the year and model numbers of the first machine. To have a generalized value at that time manufactured, and current approximate value. The first machine had a patent pending. Obviously the newer have a patent number. I' actually more interested in the before patented model. Any information would help. Thank You for reading. 108.219.95.162 (talk) 07:32, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Internet user. Perhaps you misunderstand the purpose of the Teahouse. We answer questions about editing Wikipedia here, not questions about machines to assist in the drinking of Jägermeister. Maybe the friendly people at the Reference desk may be of assistance. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 08:13, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
To add Cullen's excellent answer, You should try discussing the matter on specific article's talk page. It's the best way to get help from people who are specialized in that sector.--Chamith (talk) 08:15, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
I'm afraid I must disagree with Chamith on this. Every talk page says in the box at the top: "This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the XXXX article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject." Questions about the Jagermeister machine, unless they are directed to improving the Wikipedia article, are not appropriate at Talk:Jägermeister. Cullen's recommendation of the Reference desk is more appropriate. --ColinFine (talk) 15:02, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
@ColinFine:. Actually I thought he is looking for that information because he wanted to improve Jägermeister.--Chamith (talk) 17:19, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
Reference desk is fine for that too. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:41, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

how to include references that were written in Danish

I've written an article about the Danish author Louis Jensen, and while I wait for it to be accepted and moved into article space, I continue to tinker and improve it (search Draft: Louis Jensen). One issue--I have several sources that are written in Danish. For example, the literary critic Gunnar Jacobsen wrote a whole book about Jensen. When I quote from these sources, I translate the passage into English--should I instead quote the Danish and provide a parenthetical English translation? I do have several sources establishing notability in English. I have also been trying to find on all the myriad help pages some discussion of how notability is established for non-Americans. Louis Jensen has a page on the Danish version of Wikipedia (although the English article I've written is much more detailed and complete). I feel confident that he meets the standard for notability--he has been nominated for several international awards, and his work has been praised in academic articles and a book in English, all reliable, independent sources. But I wonder if the fact that some of my references are in Danish is a stumbling block for the editors reviewing the article... Thanks for any help!! LeastRivers (talk) 18:14, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Hej LeastRivers och välkommen till Tehuset. As long as you have reliable, independent sources (books, websites, magazines) it does not matter what language they are in as long as you use them as references in the right way. Even if this is the English Wikipedia, there are plenty of people with other language skills here. I'm Swedish (a fellow translator) and I'm sure you will find a whole bunch of Danes soon enough. The things you quote should be in English if the quotation is long. If it is just a title or a name, you should first write the Danish version (since it is about a Dane) and after that a translation in English. You can see how this is handled in this article about a Swedish painter. I took a look at the references, and it looks very good. You might want to read Help:Referencing for beginners to learn how to use the same ref twice. Best, w.carter-Talk 20:45, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

things on my sandbox doesn't shown on my profile :(

Hi, I just started to edit on wikipedia, I have some info in my sandbox and its doesn't shown on my profile after I press save or publish... why is that? thank you Yaelbotser (talk) 23:15, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

It looks like you are confusing your sandbox with the article Yaelle Maftsir you created. You need to add references to the article. Regards, Ariconte (talk) 00:01, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
You also should read WP:COI because it appears you have created an article about yourself - which is against our policies. Please add references to support the article. It may be OK if you can support all the statements with references..... Regards, Ariconte (talk) 00:04, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Click "Contributions" at the top right to see your edits. Special:Contributions/Yaelbotser shows you have created three different pages with similar content: User:Yaelbotser, User:Yaelbotser/sandbox, Yaelle Maftsir. The last one was created in the encyclopedia and risks being deleted. The other two are in your userspace where you have more fredom to work on pages. Add {{subst:submit}} to one of them if you want to submit it for review to be included in the encyclopedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:38, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

I need help for protect my article which is proposed for deletion:Alexandra Mas

Dear Sir (Mrs) wikipedians, I ask you for your help about my article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandra_Mas which is being proposed for deletion by Biruitorul. First,Mr.Biruitorul was impolited because he don't left any message on may talk page. Second, his affirmations are ironic.His reason is that this painter has no notability.Anyone looking at the article looks like it is not true. The article is not 100% finalized.I am still working on it. It is about art.Alexandra Mas is a pluridisciplinar artist at age 36 with over 22 art show in entire world:France,Japan,England,Bucharest,Beograd.She create a new curent on art:Le Magnifisme.Se developed a new concept of art a la port in fashion.For me ,she is a prodigious person. She capted the atention of the known art critic Jean Deulceus,professor at LIISA ((Institut supérieur des Arts appliqués),France. Also,Alexandra Mas is the niece of the known artist Mircea Milcovitch. The article has 32 of references about Alexandra's art shows, about albums where she appear... Anyway,I feel a great desapoiment that in wikipedia can happen something like this. Anyone who read the article will se the beauty of creation of Alexandra Mas. Why so hurry to delete an article about art? I'm awaiting your (honestly of course)support. Please enter at this link if you want to help. I accept any point of view wich is honest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Alexandra_oMas

Thank you very much! Leedskalnin (talk) 22:57, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi Leedskalnin welcome to the Teahouse, Your page has been marked for possible copyright violation. Wikipedia takes copyright violation seriously and it will be speedily deleted. As mentioned in WP:COPYPASTE you shouldn't copy details from copyrighted sites and paste it here. You have to write articles in your own words. And no, you can't prevent page from being deleted by protecting it. You have to understand that the problem is not in the subject of the article, it's copyright infringement.--Chamith (talk) 04:51, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
Hello Leedskalnin. Didn't we talk about a Brazilian samba dancer a while back? Best wishes to you.
I am sorry to have to tell you that articles about artists are held to the same notability standards as all other articles. Advocating for a more lenient standard regarding articles about artists won't gain much support here. Articles about Romanians are held to exactly the same standards as articles about people of any other nationality on Earth. Hinting that Biruitorul is somehow biased against articles about Romanians is a weak argument, as Biruitorul is Romanian. Pointing out that Biruitorul supports deleting some articles is also unpersuasive, as all experienced editors know that we have plenty of crappy articles that should be deleted.
Words of praise, even by a very famous author, printed on a book jacket, do not contribute to notability of the book. The same is true of words of praise about an artist, even by an expert, on the artist's own website. That is not an independent source. Your personal assertions that this artist is notable hold no weight here. What counts is significant coverage in reliable, independent sources. That is all. Furnish sources of that kind, and the article will be kept. That's the bottom line. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:58, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very much Sir,Let's discuss it,I appreciate very much your comments. If you are looking at references,you will see that is it not from only "not independent source".The vernisaje,art shows,and other sources quoted are not related by Alexandra site.On the conceptikolas galleries,or galerie-be-espace and other nobody cant have acces if he is not a "notable" art creator. Anyway, I will continue to search reliable sources from the experts about Alexandra. What about suspicion of me about very much romanian users which page was deleted by this user (which is romanian from hungarian origin,I suspected , I'm not so sure about what you say (is my opinion). But, finaly,do you think that I must continue to work on this project or to stop? After of course I will resolve the problem with copyright? Leedskalnin (talk) 06:25, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Of course, you should continue your efforts if you believe that the artist is truly notable. But coverage by an art show or gallery exhibiting an artist does not establish notability of that artist, unless the art show or gallery is indisputably world class. I am an art collector. If I set up a website for "Cullen's Art Show", and exhibited all the pieces I own, would that make all those artists notable? Of course not. Some are notable on their own merits, and others aren't. I can't establish notability of beginning artists by "showing" their work. This artist is relatively new. We need rock solid evidence of notability. Furnish it, please, without arguing with "Hungarian" editors. My wife is of half Hungarian-Jewish ancestry, by the way. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 06:45, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
Thank you very much, Sir Let's discuss it, I leave into an area with many ethnic problems...You have right, my remarcs was some at anger,maybe they are subjective (realy I believe this).
Thank you very much for your advice, I will rebuild the article.Your opinion is very important for me.
Apropos,is not need to say nothing about Galerie Be Espace,Espace Ticolas,Galerie Claire Corcia,Musée des Beaux Arts Monaco, Saint-Petersburg,Grand Palais Paris,galerie Memmi,Musée des Beaux Arts Monaco,Triennial exposition on Kanagawa Japan.This galleries dont have need of recommendations....

Leedskalnin (talk) 12:56, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Leedskalnin (talk) 13:29, 12 November 2014 (UTC)


Article submission denied

I've submitted a page about author Alma Katsu two times and have been denied twice. The second time the rejection was for not establishing notability. I am confused because I have found other pages on authors that have similar amounts of content on them and they were not rejected. I guess I am missing what exactly I am not adding to the page to establish notability. I'm not sure if there is a way for me to link my draft so that it can be read, or if that is already available because I sign this question, but if I am missing something that would be helpful, please just let me know what to do. Thanks in advance for your assistance and advice! Jill.salz (talk) 04:42, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Jill.salz. Your draft article can be seen by any editor at Draft:Alma Katsu. The first thing that I notice is that your references are bare URLs. Please expand and fill them out as described in Referencing for beginners. I also notice that several of your references are one-sentence or one brief paragraph listings in publishing industry websites that exist to promote new book titles. We are looking, instead, for significant coverage in reliable, independent sources that devote quite a bit of attention to the author as a person, not just to her books.
Please be aware that this encyclopedia has well over 4.6 million articles, many of which do not meet our standards. We delete crappy articles all the time, at the rate of hundreds or thousands a day. It is a logical fallacy for you to state that you saw some unnamed mediocre article, so we should accept your mediocre article. No, instead, we should delete or improve those other mediocre articles, and we would if you had linked to them. Your job here is to create adequate, compliant articles, not crappy ones. Create articles about indisputably notable topics, with the potential to be expanded into truly good articles. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:18, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Your advice and comments do help actually. I wasn't trying to be snarky in pointing out other author articles that are short, I was trying to understand why my article was rejected for "notability" and when looking at other existing articles for context, I was surprised to find articles on newer authors who seemed less notable than Ms. Katsu. The articles I was referring to were these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katherine_Neville_(author) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Dun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raelynn_Hillhouse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kira_Peikoff I can see how my references are bare URLs, so that is something I can correct. I am new to editing on wikipedia, but I really love the whole concept and wanted to try my hand at participating. I'll admit it is a bit daunting to have to get an article to such high standards before it is accepted for publishing. I was originally under the impression that it was common practice to stub out an article, post it, and then improve upon it along with others editing over time into something really great. I'm now realizing that really isn't the case if you don't want your article deleted. Anyways, thanks for your help. Jill.salz (talk) 05:40, 12 November 2014TC)

The four articles you mention above, Jill.salz, are all mediocre and can certainly be improved. The first two, though, assert that those authors have written best sellers, which is a legitimate claim of notability. The third asserts national security expertise, citing published articles in the Washington Post and elsewhere. The fourth on your list claims that the writer has been published in the New York Times and other highly notable publications. Without a doubt, each of those articles could be improved. So could the majority of articles here on this encyclopedia. Set your standards higher than barely adequate articles.
You chose to submit your draft through the Articles for Creation process, which is optional but provides for a review by a more experienced editor. You could have plunked your article down in the main space, where new pages patrollers would probably have tried to delete it right away. Pick your poison. Or better, write articles that comply fully with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and you will encounter few problems here.
Personally, I have written more than 60 articles here without going through the Articles for Creation process. And not a one has been deleted. But before I did so, I studied Wikipedia's standards, and took great care to comply. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 06:23, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
While I appreciate your taking the time to explain some guidelines I don't exactly find your tone friendly as is stated in the welcome message for this discussion area. As a newbie to editing on wikipedia, it's intimidating and unnecessary to insinuate that I am shooting for "mediocre" or "barely adequate". Though it is my choice to go through the Articles for Creation process there is a statement that indicates that articles that are simply posted but do not meet standards will be deleted and there is a limited number of times that a deleted article can be resubmitted. That would seem to be a poor format for posting one's first article. I'll continue to work on the article and hopefully establish notability. Jill.salz (talk) 06:45, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
If you find my tone unfriendly, Jill.salz, then I must apologize to you. My intent was to be frank and informative, not unfriendly. The vast majority of attempts by new editors to create new articles here on Wikipedia, by any method, are unsuccessful. My comments were intended solely to improve your chances of success. If you are having difficulty seeing that, then perhaps another editor can do a better job than I have, in giving you advice. "Friendly" does not mean "compliant", at least in my dictionary. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:57, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
You're reading into my words if you got the idea that I wanted you to be compliant.98.216.143.197 (talk) 13:17, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Greetings, Being somewhat new to Wikipedia, I found two things helpful.
One, Portal:Biography contains a section, Things you can do.
Two, updating and improving existing existing biography articles. Over time it's easy to see the quality level of different articles--some are minimal, other articles are very good.
Good luck & best wishes. JoeHebda (talk) 14:08, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Although only essays, not policies or guidelines, two pages that help some editors to understand those policies and guidelines are Wikipedia:Other stuff exists and Wikipedia:No amount of editing can overcome a lack of notability - Arjayay (talk) 15:32, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
@Arjayay: Thanks for posting the Wikipedia:Other stuff exists article. This issue seems to be coming up a lot lately and I knew there was something like that but couldn't remember the name of the article. I know it's not a policy but I think that article really explains things well. Will bookmark for future reference. --MadScientistX11 (talk) 15:53, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Tried my first edit and failed miserably need help in correcting my error

Tried updating Robert S. Morse page with new information I have from a 1961 Army R&D magazine and tried placing some of the content. That went well but when I tried to edit and add my source I received a bold error saying the reference was not found. Now the page doesn't show up on Wikipedia. I feel I have lost the pervious work on the page. Any help would be greatly appreciated.NeoGraphix (talk) 16:09, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Sure thing Neo. I'll take a look and then get back to you on your talk page :) --Skamecrazy123 (talk) 16:19, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
All sorted. It was a simple syntax error which I have explained on your talk page :) --Skamecrazy123 (talk) 16:40, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

What is patrol pages?

I just created a page and I get that it was patrolled, can someone explain that to me?, besides anyone can tell me how to delete pages but the link to that page no longer appears, please. (Halias 23) 12:42, 12 November 2014 (UTC).

Hi Halias 23, welcome to the Teahouse. New pages patrol is a process by which newly created articles are checked for obvious problems. This includes processes such as identifying new pages that meet the criteria for deletion, and detecting copyright violations. When a non-autopatrolled user creates a new page, NewPagesFeed logs them immediately, so that other editors can access those pages from the feed and check for problems. After checking the page he or she would mark the page as patrolled by clicking the link at the bottom of the page. In other words it's like reviewing the page. Autopatrolled users are trusted group of article creators and pages they create will automatically marked as patrolled. And about your second question. If you want to remove a wikilink to a certain page just remove double square brackets ([[ ]]) around the specific word. --Chamith (talk) 19:12, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Just to add a bit: When new users create a new page, it gets flagged for other users to check it out. Once a page is patrolled, it just means that an experienced user has looked at it. It allows us to have an extra set of eyes on new pages to assure they meet minimum standards. --Jayron32 19:24, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Hi Halias 23, you mentioned something about deleting pages? Can you please clarify your question or tell us what page you would like to delete. Is it a page you created yourself or something else. The more we know, the better we can help you. Best, w.carter-Talk 19:40, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

HOW TO

Can we but infoboxes in sandboxes? I do not know. And how can I invite authors? Dadapotato (talk) 13:05, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Greetings Dadapotato welcome to the teahouse. Yes, you can put Infoboxes in your sandbox. Your sandbox is meant to be a temporary work area where you try things out before posting changes to the actual encyclopedia so you can pretty much put anything you want in them as long as it's related to editing Wikipedia. The one restriction that I'm aware of is certain copyrighted images (e.g., album cover art) that have restrictions and can only be used in the actual article not in temp pages. But don't worry about that too much that doesn't happen often and if you do put such an image in your sandbox there is a bot that will automatically delete it after a short time. As for inviting other editors it depends on what you want to do. There are lots of ways to network with people here but the two most common are article talk pages and user talk pages. If you have a question about how to edit an article or if you edit an article and someone reverts it and you want to discuss it the best place is on the talk page for the article. If you have a specific question for another user you can post it on their talk page. Here is my talk page for example: User_talk:MadScientistX11 You can see an example of someone contacting me (another teahouse guest) and the two of us talking here: User_talk:MadScientistX11#N142pb_is_trying_again_- BTW, the question that user was asking me was similar to your question and my answer on my talk page goes into more detail about how editors communicate with each other on Wikipedia. Hope that was useful, feel free to ask a follow up if you still have questions or you can ask me for more details on my talk page. --MadScientistX11 (talk) 14:05, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
I do not know how to add them I tried several times before asking and I do not know how to put infoboxes in sandboxes.Dadapotato (talk) 18:23, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Your sandbox is no different than any other page really. To add an infobox you just paste the code for the infobox into the sandbox and then fill in the appropriate fields. For example suppose I wanted to expand the article on Rory Gallagher. I could copy the current article (including the infobox) into my sandbox. I've done that just now so you can see it here: User:MadScientistX11/sandbox The code for Rory's Infobox is:

{{Infobox musical artist | name = Rory Gallagher | image = Rory Gallagher 1982.jpg | image_size = 200 ... | notable_instruments = [[Fender Stratocaster|1961 Sunburst Fender Stratocaster]] }}

Note: I've removed most of the code with "..." but hopefully you get the idea. Does that make sense? Keep in mind when you say you want to "add an infobox to your sandbox" your sandbox is always meant to be a temp work area so having an infobox there really only makes sense in terms of an article you are creating or editing. Does that help? --MadScientistX11 (talk) 19:01, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Hello Dadapotato, I took a look at your user page and all of your very many sandboxes. I think you have misunderstood the use of them. I have left you a much more complete answer at your talk page. The sandboxes are for creating articles and not for sorting discussion threads about your different interests such as politics, SimCity, your website, etc. and infoboxes only belong in articles. Best, w.carter-Talk 19:04, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
@Dadapotato: I guess your specific problem was why User:Dadapotato/sandbox did not display an infobox at the time of your first post. It was fixed in [1] long before your second post. Another time, please be more specific about the problem. Then you are likely to get more useful answers. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:51, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Need pic uploaded ASAP

I need to upload a picture to the page for a television series I work on. I would like it up as soon as possible, and obviously as someone who actually worked on the show theres no copyright issues involved. But since I only just started this account for the purposes of that I'm not yet autoapproved. Could someone who's been here a little longer be a real hero and help me out. It's a tiny little logo pic that just needs to go in the infobox. Would be much appreciated. My boss wants it up as soon as possible.

MrJimmySticks (talk) 03:55, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, MrJimmySticks. Why is your boss in such a rush? There are no deadlines here on Wikipedia, and your boss does not own or control an article about a TV show. Copyright issues do not go away just because you work on the show, but in general, uploading low resolution versions of logos are allowed in cases like the one you describe, under Fair use. Why don't you link to the article about the show, link to the logo, and maybe we can get this done? Cullen328 Let's discuss it 06:51, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

what r the exceptions to law of demand with ic

exceptions with indifference curve14.139.211.2 (talk) 06:34, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Internet user. The Teahouse is a place to ask questions about editing Wikipedia. I have to admit that I don't understand your question. Is it about economics? Please try the Reference desk, where someone may be able to help you. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:24, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
Try reading Law of demand and Indifference curve. Good luck. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:29, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Watchlist and Preferences problem

Anyone know why my watchlist is suddenly expanded out? The little drop arrows on the left are gone and I see all 20 (or whatever) edits to an article and have to scroll through them. I much prefer having the arrow on the left so I only see the article and click it to see the list of recent edits. And my preferences are now all on one page, not the separate tabs. I prefer the tabs. How do I restore these? Thank you.

@HalfGig: I don't know which skin you are using so I can't answer for why you are seeing all the preferences on on page and not on separate tabs - it's not a problem I'm having and I've just tried all four skins. Check your Special:Preferences change skin, save and then change back to see if that fixes the tab issue. The other bit sounds like a setting on the on the Watchlist tab. Is the top option in Advanced options ticked? If so untick it and save preferences. Nthep (talk) 12:46, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
This is now all back to normal. I have no idea why. HalfGig talk 12:56, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

hoe to start a page for a music artist/music producer

hoe to start a page for a music artist/music producerMmajic (talk) 07:59, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Hello Mmajic and welcome to the Teahouse. A good way to start editing and creating articles is to first learn how to edit. You can do it by doing the tutorial The Wikipedia Adventure mentioned a bit further up on this page. You can also read this: Wikipedia:Your first article Good luck! w.carter-Talk 13:55, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Need help with a rejected article- Goethe award

I need help with an article rejected on the grounds of notability and the golden rule. The article concerns a book award. The reviewer says that citations from the publishers of the books winning the award are not evidence that the award is notable and the reviewer has therefore removed most of the article's references. However the reviewer thinks that a citation from the CV of one of the winners is an appropriate citation. The books are all published by highly reputable publishers of peer reviewed books. To me, evidence of notability is supported by the fact that a reputable, notable, peer reviewed book publisher thinks the award is notable enough to put on their website. If the goal of Wikipedia is to have articles about notable subjects, then that goal is achieved by listing an award that the most prominent publishers in a given field think is notable. Here is the article after the citations were removed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Goethe_Award_for_Psychoanalytic_and_Psychodynamic_Scholarship Here is the article before the citations were removed: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Goethe_Award_for_Psychoanalytic_and_Psychodynamic_Scholarship&oldid=633471800 If the award was of no notability, reputable publishers would not feel that they should put it on their website. Can someone please clarify these criteria for mePhilPsych (talk) 04:07, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, PhilPsych. Here is my opinion of the matter. Notability here on Wikipedia has a very specific definition. Here is a one sentence summary:
"If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list." (emphasis added)
The word "independent" is key here. Not a single word said on the website of a book publisher establishes the notability of anything involved in selling the books they publish. Not about their authors, not about their editors, not about the book publishing software they use, not about their beautiful headquarters building, and not about the awards that their books have won. Every word on a publisher's website is for the purpose of selling books, and is not independent. That doesn't mean it is wrong or worthless, but that it is not independent.
On the other hand, an article about the awards in a reputable magazine or journal that has nothing to do with granting or receiving the award is an excellent source establishing notability. Think of it this way: The Oscars are notable in the Wikipedia sense not because the academy and the actors, directors and screenwriters care about them. They are notable because thousands of journalists, biographers and film historians write about them. Truly independent sources establish notability. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 06:12, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
This is to second Cullen's comment, that it needs more about the award itself. How prestigious is this prize among prizes awarded to books, or prizes in the field of psychology? For example, in Germany there are close to a dozen prizes and medals named after Goethe, and some are more notable than others. E.g., the Goethe Gold Medal from the Goethe-Gesellschaft in Weimar is the highest award in the field of Goethe scholarship. So that would be notable, although we don't have an article about it. So it would be good if you could find a third-party article from a journal in the field that mentions it as an important award. Once that is established, the cites about the prize winners in the draft are fine. No problem there. Also, the award that Freud won was a different prize, so it's not really relevant to this one. – Margin1522 (talk) 07:02, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the responses. But, sorry I still don't quite get it. The publishers are not granting the award. So the peer reviewed, reputable, notable publishers who are reporting about the award are independent of the award itself. The award is independent of the publishers because there is not one, but a number of different competing publishers whose books have won the award. When I think of other book awards throughout the world, I expect that most reports in newspapers likely originate from a news release coming directly from the award organization. So one could argue that the newspaper reports are not independent. When you are talking about an award for a scholarly academic book, it is going to be difficult for me to figure out what sources will meet your criteria, since academic, scholarly journals don't normally post these kind of announcements based upon a news release. With some tedious effort, I will be able find announcements on university and/or psychoanalytic institute websites concerning the fact that a member of their faculty or institute has won the award for their book. Can someone please tell me if that will contribute to notability or will it be impossible to establish notability for an award for a scholarly, academic book? As for the supposedly irrelevant reference to the Goethe prize, I think that reference is absolutely essential. The fact that Freud won the "Goethe prize" is entirely relevant as it speaks to the origin of the use of "Goethe" in naming the psychoanalytic book award. The Goethe Award was named to hark back to the name of the prize that Freud won. The readers of the article would have no understanding whatsoever of why the award was called "Goethe" without referring to the fact that Freud won the "Goethe prize". PhilPsych (talk) 15:57, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Hello again, PhilPsych. The publishers mention the award in the hope of selling more books. That's not independent. If no one unconnected with the selling of the books or granting the award gives significant coverage to the award in reliable, independent sources, then the award is not notable by Wikipedia's standards. So, your task is to find independent coverage. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 16:05, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
PhilPsych I just wanted to comment about the Freud thing. If I'm understanding this correctly there are two DIFFERENT awards: the Goethe award that Freud won and the Goethe award that you are trying to write an article about. If that is correct than the version of your draft article that I took a look at is IMO highly confusing on that issue. It makes it seem like this current award is the same award that Freud won a long time ago. I think it's essential to revise the article (assuming you can demonstrate wp:notability) so that this is cleared up. Perhaps this Goethe award was inspired by the award that Freud won or there is some other connection. If so that should be made clear in the article but if not then the point about Freud should just be removed because as is it is misleading. Hope that makes sense. --MadScientistX11 (talk) 16:33, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

OK, I will clarify about the reference to the "Goethe prize" vis-à-vis the "Goethe Award for Psychoanalytic and Psychodynamic Scholarship". Meanwhile I have inquired further on Cullen's talk page about what sort of citations would establish notability for an award for academic, scholarly books. I don't think the answer should be identical to which sources would establish notability for an award for popular novels for instance, or movie awards. I believe that Wikipedia's notability criteria should not preclude the possibility that an award for a scholarly book would be considered notable, even though its notability might be considered closely aligned to a particular field of study. I was thinking readers of Wikipedia interested in modern psychoanalysis would find the article useful since it would explain which books have won this award, an award which is certainly notable within the field of psychoanalytic scholarship. Anyway as I said, I am continuing that discussion on Cullen's talk page.PhilPsych (talk) 16:50, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

We must take attitude!

Cullen328
ChamithN
DangerousPanda
W.carter

Dear Gentlemen.

I make an article (which was deleted)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alexandra_Mas
And I enter into editorial war withMr.Biruitorul on link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Alexandra_Mas
I don't want to defend my article anymoore.But I want you to take attitude into next problem: the attitude of this user about some french personalities.I want to tell you that this discution was folow by some artists and wikipedian french users from France, and the language used by Biruitorul can make very bad image to english wikipedia.I except the fact that he make me an nonsens man "the nonsense Leedskalnin is throwing up",this not bother me.But to say "who the hell is Jean Deulceux and why should we care what he says?" it is inaceptable.I was part in many discussion on wikipedia talks, but I never meet such language.I have many discussion with you too,and I never insult or make such statements about nothing.I bear in my mind that wikipedia must be a place of politely behavior,of construction, of free deliberates,of ideas.Again this is not about may article,it is not about Alexandra Mas, it is about the remarks wich can insult other people which are not part of wikipedia and who follow this discutions.It is remarcs whic insult french art:
"Galerie BE-Espace, Ticolas, Galerie Claire Corcia, Musée des Beaux-Arts du Monaco, Musée des Beaux-Arts, Saint Petersburg, Galerie Memmi, Kanagawa International Print Triennial, GemlucArt, Cielo Gallery. I think the redlinks speak for themselves, although I will note that none of these has an article on fr.wiki either, which does have significantly better coverage of French topics."
What is this???
What coverage is neded for Musée des Beaux-Arts, Saint Petersburg Russia which have over 400000 artworks?Please,let not insult institutions just because them are not in wikipedia!!!
Please,take attitude!!!
Thank you very much,gentlemen!
Sincerely yours,
Leedskalnin (talk) 13:29, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Hello Leedskalnin and welcome back to the Teahouse. I'm not quite sure I understand all your problems since your writing is somewhat agitated, but I'm going to stick my neck out and try to answer just the same.
By "We must take attitude", I assume you mean "We must take action"? Well, the best thing is actually to try to look past this and concentrate on writing and improving the article instead. I understand that you feel "wronged" in many ways, but much of this can be due to misunderstanings. I agree that such comments and language as you described here should preferably not be used on the Wikipedia, but such things do happen nevertheless. Try to ignore it and rise above it, see: Wikipedia:Don't-give-a-fuckism.
As for the articles, one common mistake made when writing new articles is not providing the right references and sources. A subject may be very notable, but if the sources provided to support this are "bad" then it will bring down the article. Just picking sources from the web is a sure way of ending up with such "bad" sources. For example, if you want to write an article about a museum, chances are that if you just look at the web, most things found will be rather superficial mentioning of that museum and you will end up with things that were called "fluff". BUT if you go to a library and search for books, journals, catalougues or magazines where someone has written about the museum, then most of these sources will be good and really support your article.
Another "trap" when picking sources from the Internet is that you risk copyright violations. Most pages on the web are copyrighted, they have been created by someone who has copyright to that material and since the Wikipedia is "free" it can never include material that is copyrighted. This little rule may be hard to understand if you are used to just roam the web and copy whatever you like, but you have to respect that here on the Wikipedia. If you use information from a webpage, you have to read it and the write the information you have found in your own words. This may be difficult if you are not sufficiently fluent in English, but this is the English Wikipedia so please try.
About all the French art institutions, the remark made was somewhat badly chosen. An art institution is not non-notable just because it is red-linked. That only means that no Wikipedian editor has taken the time to search for proper sources and create an article about it. The Wikipedia is made by volunteers, each with their own special interest and most of us just write about what is dearest to us. It is very unusual that articles are written just because someone else thinks that they "should" be written. So, instead of being angry that there are no articles about these museums, I suggest that you involve the French art people to help write these articles. Aparently this is an overlooked corner of the Wikipedia that requires some help. All the best, w.carter-Talk 13:40, 13 November 2014 (UTC)


Dear Sir, Thank you for your response.Maybe inndeed,I put wrong the text"We must take attitude",in fact all I want to say is that someone of the wikipedians to enter in this discution and to make apel at politely behavior about our french friends and posible users.If you read the discution you will see that the tone used by the acusator is very insulting . Mr.Jean Deulceux professor and art critic follow the discution on that link and when he heard" who the fuck is Jean Deulceux and who cares what he say"....How to colaborate with this man again? All what I want is a little moderation in discurs, in tone.If I had known that some expressions will be used I would not be given the link to Mr. professor. Again, this is not about if Jean Deulceux is or not is a good art critic,is about to find other formulas to say that instead "who the .....".Is not that article is good or bad,it is about tone with which you can say that.I have some discution with you,with Mr.Cullen328,with Mr.DangerousPanda,and all was in a good manner,and constructive dialog,without insulting,without hard words.We must construct,wikipedia is an colectiv effort,nobody want to do something bad here,it is not needed for such terms "who cares what he say".I don't want to talk about "nonsense that Leedskalnin throwing up..". This is why I'm angry.Of course,my intention are not to take any action,but to intervening some neutral users for make apel at politely and courtesy.I think this is the direction to which wikipedia must evolve.Other ways are not.In the war nothing is constructed.To construct something is need of peace.
Again,thank you very much! Leedskalnin (talk) 14:17, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

@Leedskalnin: If you find yourself in a discussion where you feel that some editor is crossing the line of civility, you can gently remind that editor by suggesting that they read this page: Wikipedia:Civility. Wikipedia is always striving for civility, but tempers do sometimes run high during discussions and rules may be momentarily forgotten. Et professeur Jean Deulceux: Vous êtes très bienvenus de faire des contributions sur l'art français ici dans la Wikipédia anglais. Mais alors, en anglais. w.carter-Talk 14:46, 13 November 2014 (UTC)


Dear Mr.W.carter,thank you for your good words.I will transmit Mr.Deulceux your invitation,but he is not a very skilled in PC work,I try to convince him to make an wiki account,but he say me that ) so he just read de comments and make observations on mail. Look who are follow this subject: Mr.professor Jean Deulceux LISAA (http://interventions-histoire-de-l-art.over-blog.com/) (Institut supérieur des Arts appliqués);
Mr. Francis Parent(http://www.francis-parent.com/) art critic ,member of AICA (http://www.aicainternational.org/)
Mrs.Alexandra Mas french artist,like subject of article;
Mr.Erich Tibusch,french couturier(http://www.tibusch.com/)
Mrs.Aurore Tome,french actress(http://www.aurore-tome.com/accueil.cfm/367301_aurore_tome.html);
Mr.Mircea Milkovitch(http://site.artactif.com/milcovitch/),french sculptor;
Mr. Christopher Lavenaire,french pictor (http://www.lavenair.book.fr/);
Thank you again. Leedskalnin (talk) 17:42, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Information on sand forests

Hi! I'm trying to make an article on Sand Forests and was wondering if anyone had any good tips on how to begin, where to get good info (I can't seem to find much) and where's a good place to get pictures. Any help would be great!Secahill (talk) 21:19, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Secahill. We already have an article called Southern African Sand Forest. If that's what you are thinking of, you could work on improving that article. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 22:05, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
The page I'm making has to do with Sand forests in general, not just the South African one. Secahill (talk) 19:31, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

How do i properly reference images taken from published scientific papers?

Hello!

I would like to use an image taken directly from a scientific paper, however I want to make sure I do it correctly without causing any copyright issues. Could someone walk me through that, or point me to the place where i can find the information?

Thanks in advance Drhood2938 (talk) 20:26, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Drhood2938, and welcome to the Teahouse. The copyright situation is no different if the image is in a scientific paper or is anywhere else. Normally, an image may be used in Wikipedia only if the copyright owner has explicitly released it under a free licence such as CC-BY-SA. If you are in touch with the copyright owner, and they are willing to do this (either by a public declaration on a website where it is published, or by the process in donating copyright materials) then you can upload the image to Wikimedia commons and include it in an article from there. If the copyright owner is unavailable, or unwilling to license it, you can use it only if such use meets all the requirements in Non-free content criteria - and I rather doubt that this will be the case, though I may be wrong. In either case, Help:Upload will tell you how to go about it. --ColinFine (talk) 21:25, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Please check my work?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Stephb91/Vivi_Devereaux

New to Wikipedia. Have created a page on my user profile. Can someone check it before I try make it go live?

Stephb91 (talk) 01:43, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Hello and welcome Stephb91
User profile is a page for user, in which brief information is written
about user. In this page you can write something about yourself.
Sand box, is usually used for testing and creation of draft articles.
I am not fully sure about notability of your article, but it needs proper formatting
for example 'early life' and 'filmography' should be placed as sub headings
like this ==Early life==
Best wishes
Aftab Banoori (Talk) 02:44, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
@Stephb91: Hi Steph. Articles on any topic, and especially those on a living person, require the existence of reliable, published secondary sources that write about the topic in some detail and are completely independent of the topic. The existence of such sources establish notability, and are used to verify information in any potential article. In short, reliable sources are things like reputable books, magazines, newspaper articles, documentaries and so on. User generated sources like blogs, forum posts, many e-zines, imDb write ups, random websites, etc., with no reputation for fact checking and accuracy, are no use for this purpose. I have searched for sources and found not even one reliable source and none of the sources you have cited in the article are of the type we want.

It thus does not appear there is any likelihood that an article on this individual at the moment is warranted. Given what he has done, it would not surprise me at all if in a few years sources will exist, and a properly sourced article could be written, but currently he is just "up and coming", and it does not look like there is anything you can do right now to write an article that would stick. I thus suggest that you ask for the draft to be deleted yourself (you can place {{Db-userreq}} at the top of the page and save to do so). Don't let this discourage you. But keep these issues in mind for the next topic you choose and you'll succeed. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:43, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Ah I see. :( pity.

I have done as you have suggested and requested speedy deletion for the page. Hopefully it's done ASAP so I can reset and try my hand at something else. Thanks so much for all your help

Stephb91 (talk) 04:37, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

talk pages

Hey so if I want to thank a fellow Wikipedian or whatever we're referred to in here how do I thank a person who leaves a message on my talk page? And would it be normal to see the phrase edited xx hours ago by such and such? Needs2learnmore (talk)

You can leave a message on their talk page. Just go to User_talk:<account name> and add your message to the bottom of the page. --Skamecrazy123 (talk) 10:48, 14 November 2014 (UTC)


How to revise my article

Hi,

I'm new to Wiki and tried to post this article, but it was rejected https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:EU_research_and_innovation_for_the_environment

Could you please help?

Thanks

Soniamo (talk) 14:34, 14 November 2014 (UTC)Soniamo

Hi Soniamo, and welcome to the Teahouse! The article reads more like an essay than an encyclopedia article. An encyclopedia article should begin with a "This subject/person/place/thing is <what/who/where it is>", which introduces the reader to the subject, and then proceeds to deliver information in a neutral point of view. In other words, if you read the Encyclopedia Britannica, you will be given information that's "to the point" and written very formally, and as if the author had no direct affiliation with the subject, like you would see in a blog post or personal website and not in something like an academic paper. I hope this helps. --I am k6ka Talk to me! See what I have done 14:43, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

How to cite Social Security Death Index and U.S. Census information

Hi, I am writing an article about Harold A. Winston. What little information exists on various websites confuse him with Harold W. Winston. I want to cite SSDI as well as a U.S. Census that help verify the correct person. How do I properly cite such items? Joe Weinstein (talk) 00:36, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

@Joe Weinstein: I have cited both in the past. See Kelly pool for one method of citing the Census. Another can be seen here and see also {{Cite census}}. I cited the SSDI for Rudolf Wanderone but that was long ago and I would provide a better attributed citation today (the link is a also now dead). I suggest something like
<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.example.com|title=Social Security Death Index|publisher=U.S. Social Security Administration|website=Accessed through Ancestry.com (or whatever)|accessdate=November 13, 2014}}</ref>
       --Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 04:33, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
Welcome to the Teahouse, Joe Weinstein. When you write "what little information exists on various websites", that raises a red flag for me. A person can certainly be notable without readily available online sources. An example would be a one-term Maryland legislator in office 200 years ago. We agree that all state and provincial legislators from any country are notable and deserve Wikipedia biographies, even if online sources are not readily available. But most notable people who have Wikipedia biographies will have more than "little information" available online. So my friendly question to you is, why do you think that this person is notable? Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:54, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
Not sure how to respond, Fuhghettaboutit and Cullen328, individually or separately. Thanks for the input as to referencing SSDI info. If you looked up Harold Winston on various sites, you would see that he had a career both on Broadway and in Hollywood, in various capacities. The problem is that there are two Harold Winston's who worked in the entertainment industry and their information is confused, birth and death dates of one and accomplishments of the other. The information I have found makes them both a heck of a lot more interesting. Maybe the information I have found about them is information that has been recently scanned from the actual publications and certainly deserve to be organized into accurate, concise articles so they can both be recognized for their individual achievements. When I get the references notated properly and re submit the article I feel fairly certain you will agree. I have written his bio for family consumption, with statements from family members, but I have already taken those out. I appreciate the encyclopedic nature of Wikipedia, so I will only include information that is notable, and not just a narrow point of view. Thanks so much for the input! Joe Weinstein (talk) 14:54, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, Joe Weinstein. You may find an essay called Don't build the Frankenstein to be relevant to the confusion about these two people. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 16:35, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Inserting Citations

I'm trying to cite the same paper multiple times, how do I cite it without it adding the citation to the reference multiple times? Secahill (talk) 19:30, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Assuming that you're using one of the citation templates you can simply name it the first time you use it, as <ref name="YourName">full citation</ref> for instance, and for every subsequent occurrence you can use that name, as in <ref name="YourName" />. Eric Corbett 19:34, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
... and actually that would work whether you're using one of the citation templates or not. Eric Corbett 19:36, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
Hello Secahill. Eric Corbett's answer is 100% correct. All that I will add is to be sure to include the final slash "/" when using the reference the second time and subsequent times. Leaving out the slash is a common error when first trying named references. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 21:07, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
Thank you!Secahill (talk) 17:52, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Removing anything that's Trivial

Although I've been doing this, How do you remove anything that's Trivial? FN071299 (talk) 16:46, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Greetings FN071299 Welcome to the teahouse. It helps to learn the vocabulary that editors use here. So "trivial" is not in my experience a word that people generally use to describe content in an article. We try to avoid using language that is overly praise worthy or negative. I think what you are calling trivial is what in Wikipedia would be called wp:original research or wp:not notable or not sourced BTW, I notice you are doing a lot of editing where you just remove information and leave comments like "trivial if not sourced". It is appropriate to remove information that isn't sourced but in my experience it's not the first thing that people usually try to do. It's better -- assuming the information is true and relevant to the article -- to FIND a source and add it rather than just immediately removing the info. Specifically, I notice you are removing a lot of MPAA ratings from various articles on films and leaving comments like "trivial if not sourced". IMO a better approach would be to find newspaper articles or other 3rd party sources that say what the MPAA rating for the film was and add those references rather than just delete the info about the ratings. --MadScientistX11 (talk) 17:09, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
Regarding unsourced material, unless it's a direct quotation or contentious material about a living person, I would not interpret "It is appropriate to remove information that isn't sourced" as you should always remove that information. Generally, on lower class articles I leave information in that that I believe to be true or even that I simply have no reason to believe is false. I consider unsourced information in lower class articles a natural part of their evolution towards high class articles. Removal wihout justification I think generally has a negative affect on the article's growth because some of the claims are indeed verifiyable, it just takes a person who is willing to track sources down for them. If that information removed while unsourced, it may be forgotten to be put back in for many years or even forever. Jason Quinn (talk) 19:56, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

notability

hello. I want to create a wiki page or stub about an actor. First name is Vivi and last name Devereaux. I have seen a few of his plays and movies. I just wanted to ask if he is notable enough for inclusion? I see articles about him online. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stephb91 (talk • contribs) 02:48, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

@Stephb91: hello and welcome to The Teahouse. What kind of sources are writing about Vivi Devereaux? If they are blogs or any other web sites not known for a reputation of fact-checking and accuracy, they do not establish notability. What you want are respected newspapers, magazines, and books.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 21:51, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
The WP:ENTERTAINER subsection of Wikipedia:Notability (people) may help you decide. Jason Quinn (talk) 19:59, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

How to put a box in a table

Hey so you know how when you have a line of text and you put a space before each line it shows up in a nice tidy box? We have some language data that we have in such boxes, but the boxes span the whole page and someone suggested to us that we put those spaced over boxes of data inside a 1X1 table. That way they wouldn't take up the whole page and if we wanted to add extra info on the data such as images to represent the data at a mental level we could add a second column to the table and have the matching images there. Is this possible? I tried spacing the whole table code and that doesn't work and I tried putting a space after each line inside the table code and that didn't work either. Our page is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominal_(linguistics) and I referenced some of this in the "tech meeting" section on our talk page. Any help is appreciated! Sweeeetheart (talk) 04:09, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Hello Sweeeetheart and welcome to the Teahouse. I have put some of the texts in the article in boxes so that you can see how it might work. For even more nice tables see Help:Table where you can see all about different lines, backgrounds, align and so on. I also saw that you have some difficulties with using the Harvard references, I'll see if I can sort it out for you. Best, w.carter-Talk 20:13, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
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