Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1235

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Hey guys! I have a question about references.

I was wondering how to use General References on an article. I was informed that this place will probably have some answers. So how would i use a general reference if i wanted to reference something but there was no relevant place to put an actual inline citation? thanks! Elliott (talk) 17:18, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

You can create a "Bibliography" or "General references" section uner the "References" section. ~Anachronist (talk) 18:07, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Don't call the "Bibliography" -- that's for books the subject has written. Call it "Sources" if you have used the source in writing the article. Call it "Further reading" if you have not actually needed/used the resource when you wrote the article. Softlavender (talk) 05:26, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

okay, thanks! Elliott (talk) 12:04, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

As a matter of pedantry, the heading we use for references that are cited in the article is "References". —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 15:24, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, Im saying if i cant figure out where to put an inline citation, where do i put it? The question has been solved already though. Thanks anyway man! Elliott (talk) 15:26, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Politician's wiki format

While updating politicians pages, I noticed two different styles, one that had one section for election description with table of election results. Another that had two sections one that had election description, and at bottom of page the election table results. Seems the first seems to be a better format, why would you separate a photo/graph from the caption/description? Love your idea/comments Michaelwarpedu (talk) 13:58, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@Michaelwarpedu Welcome to the Teahouse. I don't have a view on this but there is an active politics Project where specialists will hang out. You could ask again at WT:PLT. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:11, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Request to add information to this article: Gay_village

I understand this page Gay village was semi-protected due to vandalism. I would like to add some information regarding Bangladeshi hijrapollis with a few sources, as I think it is relevant. Please let me know if I can provide further information Zahrank777 (talk) 16:15, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@Zahrank777 You can make an edit request on the associated talk page. CommissarDoggo^Talk? 16:19, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! Zahrank777 (talk) 16:25, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

First Article Support Needed

Hello - I'm in the process of writing my first submission and would value support/feedback before I publish.

Is there someone available to do that? Staceyrich (talk) 16:43, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Staceyrich, this is exactly what the Wikipedia:Articles for creation process is for! You can write a draft and submit for review, which will be reviewed by experienced editors. Qcne (talk) 17:01, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) The answer you got to a query to an editor was to read Help:Your first article as a way to create and submit a draft for review. An experienced reviewer would either approve, decline, reject or speedy delete. As always, references are required (WP:42). Standard advice is to gain experience improving existing articles before attempting a new article. P.S. "Publish" means save. David notMD (talk) 17:02, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, I replied all at once to the first comment...this is all new to me, appreciate the help! Just needing a bit more clarity as I want to make sure I follow the process correctly. Staceyrich (talk) 17:21, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you...and as all of this is brand new to me...I'll reply to both Qcne and David notMD...of the 2 recommendations provided, where is the best place to submit it for review prior to publishing. I do have references and have done my best to model the format after what I see available in other published articles, but would prefer to have feedback. Staceyrich (talk) 17:20, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

@Staceyrich both I and David's process is the same - you'll end up making a draft article that can be reviewed by editors (just slightly different ways of getting there). :) Qcne (talk) 17:23, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Okay, great! And how do I submit that? What format will it need to be in (PDF, copy/paste, etc.)? Staceyrich (talk) 17:26, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

We don't accept direct uploads. We have our own text editor (similar to the one you used to write this reply) which will allow you to build an article.

I would recommend reading the tutorial on how to use it at WP:VE. It's akin to a word processor with one very important difference: it does not save automatically, so please regularly back up your work (you can copy and paste into Microsoft Word). To save manually you have to press the big blue Publish button. This doesn't publish the article, but "publishes" (saves) your edits. Qcne (talk) 17:30, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much! I really appreciate the help and instructions. And once I've "published" it...will it only be viewable by people who can help edit it? I'd like to double and triple check that I'm doing this correctly :) Staceyrich (talk) 17:40, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Ah, no, so everything on Wikipedia is public (apart from your personal user account settings). This means the draft you create and edit will technically be available to be viewed by anyone in the world. However they won't appear on search engines, and members of the public don't really go around looking at random drafts (of which there are thousands).

Once you are happy with the draft you'll see another big blue button that will say Submit the draft for review! which will put it into the review pile for the reviewers to review. Qcne (talk) 17:44, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Okay, gotcha. So is it only available to edit after I've submitted it for review? And how do I make sure if it really needs some work, the editors who see it...don't flag it for being deleted immediately?? Staceyrich (talk) 18:04, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

We might be having different uses of the term "edit"- any page is available to be "edited", you will create and then edit a draft which you can Publish to save your edits/changes, and then Submit for review in order for it to go to the review pile. Sorry - terminology is quite confusing!

Take a look at our core content policies: as long as your draft meets those it won't get deleted. Qcne (talk) 18:51, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Staceyrich. Drafts are unlikely to be deleted quickly; it's expected for them to be messy.

To get the draft accepted as an article, and to keep the article from being deleted, check out Wikipedia:Notability. "Notability" is the criteria for keeping an article. As that page says, "A topic is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list when it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." If you have sources already, feel free to make a post here to get an idea of whether they do establish notability. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 04:56, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, this is really helpful and yes...the terminology is a lot to learn, appreciate you saying that because I thought it was just me! :) 2601:8C0:B01:8D50:1CE9:EA73:A501:E42A (talk) 11:07, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate your help on this, thank you! I do have sources, but I'm not sure I understand the difference between what I see in other articles where there will be internal links/sources to other Wikipedia articles and then...actual external sources. Does an article need both (I do have both linked in the draft I've created on my computer)? Is there a certain number of external sources that improve Notability? Thank you! Staceyrich (talk) 11:11, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

There are:

- Wikilinks, which are links to existing articles on Wikipedia, in the body of the text.

- References which are links to the sources and the way readers verify all the information in an article.

- External Links which are a short number of relevant links to websites that may appear at the bottom of an article.

Notability is shown through the reference links to your sources: the rule of thumb is that we're looking for at least three reliable sources that are independent of the topic and provide in-depth significant coverage.

Your article should actually be paraphrased from the sources you find: don't write your article backwards: find the sources first, then write your article based on what those sources say.

Ideally every statement you make will have an in-line citation to the relevant reference. The tutorial WP:INTREFVE shows how to make these using the visual editor. Qcne (talk) 11:38, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Once submitted, it can be reviewed in days, weeks or sadly, months, as there is a backlog of drafts and the system is not a queue. You can continue to work on it while waiting, and if Declined, improve and submit again (and again). Each reviewer will give reasons for the declined. David notMD (talk) 19:34, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, this is helpful and really insightful. I've used Wikipedia as a reader for years, but had no idea how extensive the process to participate was. I'm amazed really. But it sounds like when reasons for something being declined are given...if that's the case...I'll have time to make any necessary changes and possibly course correct prior to it being deleted? Staceyrich (talk) 11:14, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

That's correct- when a draft is declined you'll be given feedback and be able to re-submit it once you've addressed the issues. Drafts can also be rejected which means no re-submission is usually possible. Drafts are automatically marked for deletion after six months of no activity, but you'll get a warning posted on your talk page. Drafts will otherwise only be deleted if they very obviously contravene the purpose of Wikipedia by being spam, vandalism, etc. Qcne (talk) 11:40, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Gotcha, okay...so I have a draft written (when I put all the links and references and wikilinks) in a Google doc...can I copy and paste that into the Wikipedia platform or do I need to re-type everything within this system? Staceyrich (talk) 16:11, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

And is there a way for me to let you know where it's at as I would be very grateful to have it looked at by someone who understands I make no claims to know that I'm doing this right, but very teachable and willing to modify whatever needs to be changed :) Staceyrich (talk) 16:13, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

You can copy and paste from Google Docs into the Visual Editor, but it'll likely break some of the formatting and you'll have to go through and re-apply any formatting. You'll also have to do the referencing from scratch in the Visual Editor using the referencing tool.

More than happy for you to leave me a message on my User Talk Page (click the talk link in my signature below then click the Click here to leave me a new message button at the top ) and I can have a pre-look at a draft before you submit for review. I'm an experienced reviewer myself so will be able to give you an indication on if it's notable or not. Qcne (talk) 17:07, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! I really appreciate that! Okay...so step 1 would be to input everything into the Visual Editor...? And then before I click what exactly...how do I send it to you to review pre-submitting for review? Staceyrich (talk) 18:03, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

@Staceyrich Step 1: Go to the Wikipedia:Article wizard and go through the various steps. The last question will ask you to title the name of your new Draft, and it will then create it and load the Visual Editor for you to start inputting text.

Step 2: Click the blue Publish Page... button to create the draft and make it live (this doesn't publish your draft to the review pile).

Step 3: You draft is now live in our draftspace, and you can edit it once more by clicking the Edit button in the top toolbar. To save these edits click the blue Publish changes.... It's a good idea to Publish changes regularly to "save" the content.

Step 4: Once you're ready to have it reviewed, click the blue Submit the draft for review! button

Hope that helps! Qcne (talk) 19:12, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

THANK YOU! This step by step is incredibly helpful! Staceyrich (talk) 16:27, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Need help with references for a page!

Hello!

I've been working on a page (currently a draft) on the game Cryptid Crush. The thing is, despite adding references and information to push the writing, i can't get the page to be uploaded because "This draft's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article."

I have absolutely no idea of what to add/edit, despite the time i spent searching on the Notability and sources page... Does anybody can help or have ideas on what i should add?

The page is Draft:Cryptid Crush .

Thanks! Linkfandos (talk) 16:57, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Linkfandos as mentioned in the decline reason you should look for multiple published sources that are:

• in-depth (not just passing mentions about the subject)
• reliable
• secondary
• independent of the subject

None of the sources you added satisfy all of these requirements. So far. If you can't find any such sources, then the game is probably not notable. Hope this helps. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 17:27, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Linkfandos, and welcome to the Teahouse.

I'm afraid that, like most editors who try the challenging task of creating an article before they have spent significant time learning how Wikipedia works, you have written your draft BACKWARDS.

First, find sources that are independent, reliable, and have significant coverage of the subject. Ignore anything written, published, or commissioned by the article subject or its associates, and anything based on an interview or press-release. (See WP:42 for the criteria in more detail).

If you cannot find at least three such sources, then stop trying, and work on something else: the subject does not meet Wikipedia's criteria for notability, and no article is possible.

If you have found sources, then forget everything you know about the subject, and write a summary of what the sources say.

My earnest advice to new editors is to not even think about trying to create an article until you have spent several weeks - at least - learning about how Wikipedia works by making improvements to existing articles. Once you have understood core policies such as verifiability, neutral point of view, reliable, independent sources, and notability, and experienced how we handle disagreements with other editors (the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle), then you might be ready to read your first article carefully, and try creating a draft. ColinFine (talk) 17:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Requesting a deleted article to be reinstated

Hello,

A wikipedia article about a famous Pakistani actress (her name is Uzma Beg) which was deleted. The deletion was a mistake based on people not knowledgeable about her. They questioned the veracity of the article and did not do enough checking. In order to request the article being restored I wrote some basic facts in this talk page.

However there has been no interest and no response for some months. I'm not very savy with Wikipedia and was wondering if someone could look into this. I love the idea of wikipedia and the democratic idea of people editing to supply information and to improve things. But in this case the folks who deleted the article acted on incorrect assumptions and lack of knowledge about the subject.

All I want is for someone to independently look into it. Here is the talk page that I contributed: Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Uzma Beg - Wikipedia

Best Regards,

Sahgalji Sahgalji (talk) 17:06, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Sahgalji you placed the comment in the wrong place. You can ask for the page to be undeleted so you can work on it as a draft and establish notability. Make sure to address the reasoning at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Uzma Beg when editing. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 17:30, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@Sahgalji: Don't waste the community's time with an undeletion request. They are always denied if the deletion was the result of a deletion discussion, as it was in this case at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Uzma Beg. Instead, ask the deleting administrator, in this case User:Liz, if she would consider restoring the article to draft space for you to work on and submit for review. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:48, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I apologize I am just unaware of the processes to follow. Many thanks for your guidance. I will reach out to User:Liz and do exactly as you advise.

Many thanks ~Anachronist and Sungodtemple for taking the time to educate me. Sahgalji (talk) 18:09, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Editing Company Wiki Page

Hi! I'm wondering if there's a verification process for employees of companies to update their company's page with lesser risk of having said updates be taken down? Say, if I have info that has no outside source yet but is accurate? Tmtiggs (talk) 17:38, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@Tmtiggs: All information must be verifiable by published sources. You may post an edit request on the article's talk page. You can preface your request with the tag {{Edit COI}} to cause your request to be listed on a category page. Make sure you make a well-formed request, like "change X to Y", or "add X after Y" or "delete X", along with your reasoning and citations to reliable sources if applicable. Note that Wikipedia is not interested in what a company has to say about itself, so citations to secondary sources (independent of the company) are preferred. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Then you can not add that information! No information can be added without outside source. 176.0.144.43 (talk) 17:45, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

ok, thank you! Tmtiggs (talk) 18:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@Tmtiggs: Some limited information can be added by citing the company's own website: a new headquarters location, for instance, or a CEO leaving. But still use the talk page to make such requests. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:31, 12 September 2024 (UTC)