Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion/Log/2006/October/11
October 11 edit
{{US-bassist-stub}} / Category:United States bassist stubs / {{US-bass-guitarist-stub}} ( Category:United States bass guitarist stubs edit
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was delete bass guitarist cat, redirect template to bassist
I don't really see the distinction between a bassist and a bass guitarist, especially when the categories link to the exact same thing. One has roughly 60 articles, one has roughly 120. They should probably be merged. Crystallina 04:35, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Rogue split? Rename by stealth? As far as I can see, they're intended to cover exactly the same scope; perhaps the latter name is somewhat more explicit as to what that is, given the possible confusion/overlap with the double bass. Merge 'em, in some manner or other, I'm not too fussed which. Alai 15:51, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I'd guess bassists would be the one to keep, since bass guitarist redirects there. (Plus it's shorter.) Crystallina 23:59, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- delete/redirect as per Alai. FWIW, bassist covers a slightly greater area, since it includes double-bass players (of which there are several even in rock). Grutness...wha? 04:11, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Merger, suggesting that category page should mention 'bass musicians' or 'bass guitarists' for people who do not know what a "bassist" is. Goldenrowley 03:00, 13 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.
various categories left over from upmerging edit
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was delete
- Cat:Corsica geography stubs
- Cat:Limousin geography stubs
- Cat:Pakistani film stubs
- Cat:Turkish musical group stubs
These are all from discoveries (see Archive 16 for more details). They were recommended to be upmerged, so I did, leaving these categories behind. Should be a quick delete all. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 17:20, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.
various cvg sub-cats edit
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was see last post by Amalas
Most of these are empty or nearly empty. I have notified the CVG WikiProject.
- no template / Cat:Computer and video game franchise stubs
{{cvg-hardware-stub}} / Cat:Computer and video game hardware stubs- {{speedrun-stub}} / Cat:Speedrun stubs
- {{MK-stub}} / Cat:Mortal Kombat stubs
- {{Zelda-stub}} / Cat:The Legend of Zelda stubs
Delete all ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 17:32, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep {{MK-stub}}, {{cvg-hardware-stub}}, and {{zelda-stub}}. The cvg-hardware-stub template is used by numerous articles (although, for whatever reason, it doesn't add the articles to the category). The MK-stub template is less used (6 pages), but I still think it is quite useful. The speedrun-stub
and Zelda-stubtemplates, on the other hand, are used by a single article (and speedrunning doesn't have a dedicated WikiProject to address the stub issue, though Zelda does). EVula 18:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC) Addendum: I think that the Zelda-stub template and cat should be kept as well, as per CyberSkull's comments. EVula 18:13, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]- I fixed the problem with cvg-hardware. It didn't have the category on the template! I may withdraw that nomination if the category populates itself up to a reasonable number. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 18:20, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I just checked the "what links here" on the template, and there are definitely enough articles. We'll just have to wait for the category to properly fill up. I've withdrawn that nomination, but I'll leave the notice until this debate is concluded. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 18:23, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Cvg-hardware-stubs fixed last night by CyberSkull after my ham-fisted efforts at getting it working failed. - X201 08:19, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I just checked the "what links here" on the template, and there are definitely enough articles. We'll just have to wait for the category to properly fill up. I've withdrawn that nomination, but I'll leave the notice until this debate is concluded. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 18:23, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I fixed the problem with cvg-hardware. It didn't have the category on the template! I may withdraw that nomination if the category populates itself up to a reasonable number. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 18:20, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete all, as amended. The problems with the cvg-hardware template might related to the job queue problems I've been seeing elsewhere. I'll try some tinkering and/or null-editting if it continues to stay that way. Alai 20:46, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- ... and if by any chance "MK-stub" is kept, by dint of pile-on "I find it useful" 'votes', then rename as outrageously cryptic and ambiguous. (Per Virogtheconq, it really would be handy if people would read WP:STUB, and only a) apply stub tags to actual stubs, and b) only create stub tags where there's a reasonable number of stubs to apply them to.) Alai 02:56, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep {{MK-stub}}, very useful throughout all MK pages and the Mortal Kombat Wiki Project — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Haunted Angel (talk • contribs)
- Delete all, as amended - the MK stub really only applies to two articles: Taven and Devastation, which really isn't enough to qualify for an entire stub template (the other actual articles are either advanced enough to be stub-less, or will never evolve beyond a stub - ie, Noob-Smoke). Virogtheconq 00:38, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Daegon, List of Mortal Kombat Conquest episodes, and Mokap also have (and warrant) the stub tag. EVula 18:13, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete all, as nominator. Combination 01:13, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete the speedrun, keep the other 3. I have fixed the categorization issue on the hardware stub. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 02:01, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- comment: next month there are going to be a bunch of new Zelda articles created, just to let you know. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 02:03, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- delete all as amended. Note that if the decision is to keep Cat:Mortal Kombat stubs the template should definitely be renamed, as MK is a widely used two-letter acronym for everything from the Republic of Macedonia to the Cornish nationalist movement. Grutness...wha? 04:14, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete all. If stubs aren't used much, they simply shouldn't exist. RobJ1981 18:00, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment What is wrong with having a stub tag handy in the event that an article is created that warrants it? Ideally, none of the articles would be stubs, I understand, but does that mean the stub tag can't be waiting, idle? If Wikipedia has unlimited space (well, more or less), having an unused maintenance template sitting around isn't harming anything. EVula 18:13, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- The use of stub categories is different from the use of permanent categopries. They are there for editors, not readers. As such, their purpose is not to provide an aid to navigation that can quite happily work even if there are only a couple of articles in a category, they are there to provide a sorting system that is accurate enough for editors to find articles they can expand but also coarse enough that one dedicated editor won't quickly empty a category, and also coarse enough that one editor won't need to look in several categories for articles which they can expand. This is the reason why - for example - geography stub categories deal with countries and subnational regions rather than having individual templates and categories for every town. There is also the problem of patrolling categories and templates. Even with the coarse levels of sorting used, there are some 2000 stub templates and categories - enough that it's a full time job just trying to keep track of them all. Creating very finely-grained stub templates and categories is thus counterproductive - it paradoxically creates considerably more work and also make it harder for editors to expand stubs. To answer your comment directly, there are already stub tags handy for articles that warrant them, they are simply a little more coarsely-grained than the ones proposed for deletion here. Grutness...wha? 23:15, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Between reading up on the SFD rules and your response, I'm pretty sure I understand (and certainly agree that it would be counter-productive, for example, to have individual town stub types). I still think that it wouldn't hurt anything for it to stay (and am leaving my response as-is), and that stub categories that tie in to active WikiProjects (who, as far as I'm concerned, should be tasked to expand the stubs as part of their mere existence) should stay. On the other hand, there's a damn high probability that I'm just being overly-protective of a template and category that I created. :-) EVula 00:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- We do make some allowance for there being an active WPJ, but below a certain level it's still diminishing returns. Splitting out a tiny number of stubs into their own category tends to "isolate" them from the larger group they've been split off from, and therefore can, perversely decrease the attention they get. Where there's a middling number, it's sometimes a plan to upmerge the type (i.e., keeping the template, feeding into the parent category), which I wouldn't be unutterably opposed to here (if renamed). But when there's two actual stubs (tops), and a few more that the wikiproject wants to keep tabs on for some other reason or other, it's really going to be more efficient just to keep a list of them on the project page, or if you want to be over-engineered about it, a talk page template. Alai 04:56, 13 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- This is where I'm torn. If the rules say that they have to go if not being used, then I'll say that the Zelda one should stay. But if they can be there for just when you need them, then they should all be allowed to stay. I do have a suggestion for EVula on the matter of loosing the template that you created: If you don't want to loose it, and if there is a day that we might need it again, then you should just copy it into your personal sandbox. ---SilentRAGE! 20:26, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually, I'd move it into the MK project's namespace, though I'm not sure if that'd be kosher or not. Alai's rationale is certainly sound; if we could keep the visual appearance of the MK stub template (but renamed) but siphon the pages into a broader category, that would be best (in my opinion). EVula 21:08, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- This is where I'm torn. If the rules say that they have to go if not being used, then I'll say that the Zelda one should stay. But if they can be there for just when you need them, then they should all be allowed to stay. I do have a suggestion for EVula on the matter of loosing the template that you created: If you don't want to loose it, and if there is a day that we might need it again, then you should just copy it into your personal sandbox. ---SilentRAGE! 20:26, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- We do make some allowance for there being an active WPJ, but below a certain level it's still diminishing returns. Splitting out a tiny number of stubs into their own category tends to "isolate" them from the larger group they've been split off from, and therefore can, perversely decrease the attention they get. Where there's a middling number, it's sometimes a plan to upmerge the type (i.e., keeping the template, feeding into the parent category), which I wouldn't be unutterably opposed to here (if renamed). But when there's two actual stubs (tops), and a few more that the wikiproject wants to keep tabs on for some other reason or other, it's really going to be more efficient just to keep a list of them on the project page, or if you want to be over-engineered about it, a talk page template. Alai 04:56, 13 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Between reading up on the SFD rules and your response, I'm pretty sure I understand (and certainly agree that it would be counter-productive, for example, to have individual town stub types). I still think that it wouldn't hurt anything for it to stay (and am leaving my response as-is), and that stub categories that tie in to active WikiProjects (who, as far as I'm concerned, should be tasked to expand the stubs as part of their mere existence) should stay. On the other hand, there's a damn high probability that I'm just being overly-protective of a template and category that I created. :-) EVula 00:42, 13 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- The use of stub categories is different from the use of permanent categopries. They are there for editors, not readers. As such, their purpose is not to provide an aid to navigation that can quite happily work even if there are only a couple of articles in a category, they are there to provide a sorting system that is accurate enough for editors to find articles they can expand but also coarse enough that one dedicated editor won't quickly empty a category, and also coarse enough that one editor won't need to look in several categories for articles which they can expand. This is the reason why - for example - geography stub categories deal with countries and subnational regions rather than having individual templates and categories for every town. There is also the problem of patrolling categories and templates. Even with the coarse levels of sorting used, there are some 2000 stub templates and categories - enough that it's a full time job just trying to keep track of them all. Creating very finely-grained stub templates and categories is thus counterproductive - it paradoxically creates considerably more work and also make it harder for editors to expand stubs. To answer your comment directly, there are already stub tags handy for articles that warrant them, they are simply a little more coarsely-grained than the ones proposed for deletion here. Grutness...wha? 23:15, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment What is wrong with having a stub tag handy in the event that an article is created that warrants it? Ideally, none of the articles would be stubs, I understand, but does that mean the stub tag can't be waiting, idle? If Wikipedia has unlimited space (well, more or less), having an unused maintenance template sitting around isn't harming anything. EVula 18:13, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Here's what I see:
- no template / Cat:Computer and video game franchise stubs - Delete
- {{cvg-hardware-stub}} / Cat:Computer and video game hardware stubs - Keep
- {{speedrun-stub}} / Cat:Speedrun stubs - Delete
- {{MK-stub}} / Cat:Mortal Kombat stubs - Keep and rename template to {{MortalKombat-stub}}, upmerge into parent cat, delete MK cat
- {{Zelda-stub}} / Cat:The Legend of Zelda stubs - Keep template and upmerge into parent cat, delete Zelda cat
If there are no major objections, I will close this later today. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 13:15, 18 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.