Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2019 November 13

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November 13

Fungus eggs?

Clathrus ruber "eggs"? No they are not pretty, sorry. No really... These ones are called "Stinkhorn baskets" (baskets are the cute ones)

Hallo, various species of fungus produce what are called "eggs" or sometimes "fruiting body". What is the proper term for that? Sporocarp (fungus) and spore don't specifically cover it. ~ R.T.G 00:28, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Fruiting body or "sporocarp" is the correct name. They don't all resemble eggs. Many resemble flowers. And then there are mushrooms. I don't see anything obvious missing from the the article. SinisterLefty (talk) 01:10, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

In my unqualified opinion, they seem to be unique enough to require a further categorisation and seem to be called "eggs" so often I checked to see if I couldn't start an article, but I just wanted to find something focused specifically on the "eggs". It feels like they are mentioned endlessly but without any deep focus. Might still be possible, but so much easier if I found a book or two called "This is what a fungus egg is!" xP ~ R.T.G 01:29, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Functionally they are the same, whether egg-shaped, flower-shaped, or mushroom-shaped. So, the shape isn't all that important to mycology. SinisterLefty (talk) 01:39, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

See puffball. 85.76.45.42 (talk) 09:59, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Now wait. This thing is not like a sporocarp or a puffball. This thing doesn't spray. It seeds[fruits]. Birds [Insects] eat this stuff and spread it. ~ R.T.G 19:38, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Are you sure about that ? I'm not aware of a fungus with spores able to survive digestion. SinisterLefty (talk) 04:19, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, not birds, but "flies, other insects, and, in one report, a scarab beetle," (according to Wikipedia..). It's called the Clathrus ruber. The word spore conjures me an image of a floating dust particle, but in fact, that's not what a spore is. According to Spore#By_mobility, some spores swim. Also according to that article, "the difference between a "spore" and a "gamete" is that a spore will germinate and develop into a sporeling, while a gamete needs to combine with another gamete to form a zygote" and ""The main difference between spores and seeds as dispersal units is that spores are unicellular". These statements are unreferenced. Should we be changing it? ~ R.T.G 10:36, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Birds nest peridioles

Cannonball peridioles

It imitates rotting flesh instead! I suppose an article is possible, but I don't want to give it a COMMONNAME like fungal "eggs". There are others. "Birds nest fungus" Nidulariaceae#History says, "these fungi were the subject of some controversy regarding whether the peridioles were seeds, and the mechanism by which they were dispersed in nature. ... French botanist Jean-Jacques Paulet, ... proposed the erroneous notion that peridioles were ejected from the fruiting bodies by some sort of spring mechanism." (also Cyathus) In fact, water from raindrops splashes them out, and that is called a peridiole (not a spore). Even the BBC are calling the calthrus version an "egg" (they all using the quotations, hence my over-quotation). Cannonball fungus flicks the peridiole out with a spring. According to Ambrosia beetle, some fungi are clonal. Still reckon there is a suitable name for that egg. ~ R.T.G 11:39, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Note that I don't believe all fungi spores dispered via insects are eaten see e.g. [1] [2]. Some may simply on sticking to the insect, ala pollen. That said, some do. However I'm not particularly aware of any that rely on birds, at least by themselves. There is this [3], but it sounds like it's rely on the plant to attract the bird rather than attracting the bird itself. Which highlights a key point, for this measure to be successful, the fungi will need to be able to attract some bird, so I'm wondering which do that? Rotting meat smell doesn't sound like something which would attract birds. Even 'Rafflesia' and similar attract insects not birds. Not all do that, e.g. I don't think it's accurate to say the truffle relies on a rotting meat smell but it's still something which is unlikely to attract birds. Nil Einne (talk) 00:41, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

There are carrion-eating birds. SinisterLefty (talk) 01:12, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

Nl Einnes second link here says there is "plenty of evidence" regarding birds dispersing so I suppose I got that reading an external link, and these links are great and comprehensive, however they still don't focus on the somewhat unique stinkhorn "egg". I suppose they are peridiolum and they only look unique to me because of the lattice. Not seen anything quite like it, unappealing though it is. ~ R.T.G 13:40, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

There are (plant) flowers which simulate rotting flesh to attract insects for pollination, or to eat them. SinisterLefty (talk) 20:41, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Effects of sensory deprivation tank (floating) without tank or drugs

Good Day

I am wondering if it is possible to have similar effects like in a sensory deprivation tank (“floating”) without the use of a tank or drugs.

Thank you very much for your answers!

With kind regards--2A02:120B:C3E7:E650:18C8:AAB0:523A:9250 (talk) 01:09, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

To some extent. A soundproof, lightproof room will help. Still, there will be odors, and slight wind currents, and you will feel pressure points where you are sitting or lying down. When stimuli are few, those that do exist seem to grab your attention. SinisterLefty (talk) 01:20, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Spending an evening with an insurance salesman could do the trick. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:35, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

I suppose the ultimate in sensory deprivation would be to sever the nerves going to the brain, being careful to leave those coming from the brain intact. That would be foolhardy, now, as there would be no way to reconnect them all correctly. But, with future technology, this might be possible, and even desirable, say for burn patients with pain throughout their body. SinisterLefty (talk) 03:40, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Meditation will do this, though for most people those states require competent teaching and a lot of practice.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:59, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Toward the end of Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!, the chapter Altered States memorializes the experiences of one famous physicist on exactly this topic, including his experiences with sensory deprivation tanks and the altered state of mind he experienced. For the most part, Mr. Feynman did not participate in heavy drug use, because he respected the physiology of his own brain, and did not "want to screw up the machine."

I would not endorse everything that Mr. Feynman tried: he initially documents his sensory deprivation efforts while completely sober, but he also participated in sensory-deprivation tanks under the influence of prescription drugs including ketamine. Although that might be an ill-advised life-choice for the recreational physicist - consult your personal physician! - we can at least learn from Feynman: "I got this strange kind of feeling which I've never been able to figure out when I tried to characterize what the effect was." The chapter then proceeds to describe his experiences and non-experiences with the sensory deprivation tanks, including what he calls "hallucination" and out-of-body experiences.

When I want to get high and float - "without the use of a tank or drugs" - I prefer to separate myself from the surface of the Earth. With enough discipline, this can be safely conducted in compliance with good medical self-care and all local, state, and federal laws; and it's a lot safer than playing with psychoactive chemicals. On the other hand, it's probably more expensive than a sensory-deprivation tank.

It is said that astronauts experience the overview effect - a "cognitive shift." If I may wax a bit poetic, at the expense of a little bit of accuracy: that grandeur described by the astronauts is simply the most severe form of the psychological disorders related to hypoxia; and with enough effort, we can all experience it in small doses ... and with the right type of vessel, we can even make ourselves float.

And so far as sensory deprivation: there is probably no more effective way to isolate a human from their sensory perception than night IMC. If you can imagine nothing - you are nearly there; and it is absolutely an altered state of mind that fuses the most intense cognitive focus with the most intense absence of meaningful sensory stimuli. As described by Shantavira, this type of scenario absolutely requires "competent teaching and a lot of practice," especially if you plan to ever get out of it. To directly quote one of our books of great wisdom and knowledge: "disregard your sensory perceptions." (17-10.8).

Nimur (talk) 15:05, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

• List of bodies of water by salinity. ~ R.T.G 01:26, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Insularia Canaria

From one of our foreign language Wikipedias, Did you know that the Canary Islands are not named after birds but rather after dogs as the Latin Insularia Canaria translates to Islands of Dogs. While interesting this reminded me that when I was there I took a boat trip around one of the islands and noted that there were no birds. No birds anywhere on the island. Also there was no sign of birds such as guano on the rocks. I asked the tour guide who was able to confirm that he had never seen a bird there but that he had not really noticed until I pointed this out and that he was not able to explain the absence of birds. One would expect that like most oceanic islands, it would have a healthy population of birds, yet they are conspicuously absent. Why? Thank Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 15:16, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Maybe the dogs ate them all? No, actually there are plenty of birds. See Category:Birds of the Canary Islands. I suspect your tour guide was just pulling your drumstick. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:37, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Introduced species, like house cats, can decimate bird species on an island. I don't know if this happened there, though. Eventually, either the native species of birds would adapt to survive, or new bird species, which are able to survive with predators around, would move in. One important adaptation would be nesting in trees instead of on the ground (cats can generally only climb the trunk, not out on branches). SinisterLefty (talk) 16:57, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

The article Atlantic canary indicates it was named for the islands, and by implication it is quite common there - except for a couple of the islands in the chain where it is much less common. Maybe one of them is the island you were touring? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:07, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Having just come back from Tenerife, I can confirm that we saw both seabirds (gulls, I think) and songbirds (unidentified species ;-), though maybe less than you would expect. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 00:16, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Birdwatching Spain says: "Birding trip to the Canary Islands: You won’t see a large number of birds but that is not the point as these beautiful islands hold a nice combination of endemic birds, Macaronesian specialities and African species... The endemic birds list includes: Laurel Forest Pigeon, Bolle's Pigeon, Fuerteventura Stonechat, Canary Islands Chiffchaff, Tenerife Goldcrest and Blue Chaffinch". Alansplodge (talk) 17:16, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

On a trip to Tenerife two years ago I saw the local chaffinches, chiffchaffs, goldcrests and blue tits, no end of canaries, Sardinian warblers and the occasional buzzard. The number of species is less than for some islands, although migrants are quite common, but the Canaries are quite remote, and the birds have to get there. Mikenorton (talk) 22:08, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

The OP needs to get back here and explain some things. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:08, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Not sure what you want me to answer. When I went to Tenerife I saw no birds whatsoever and hence my question. Please see WP rules about being nice, Bugs and Jayron. Bullying is not appreciated and could see you banned. Anyone is allowed to ask a question, and anyone is allowed to answer. Anton 81.131.40.58 (talk) 12:17, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

You answered it: Tenerife. And as others have noted here, there are birds at Tenerife. For whatever reason, you didn't see them. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:53, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes, they should be nicer. Also, you might be more careful in how you ask questions. In this case instead of saying there were "No birds anywhere on the island" say "I didn't see any birds anywhere on Tenerife". The first statement is false, while the second is presumably true. Many people here are sticklers for details like that. SinisterLefty (talk) 18:55, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

Maybe what the OP didn't see are migratory birds. Tenerife has a hot and desertly dry climate in summer. It might be a good target or stopover for Europe's plentiful migratory birds in winter, but in summer these would be in Europe. If OP visited in summer he would only be able to see year-round birds. 93.136.94.213 (talk) 06:36, 17 November 2019 (UTC)