Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2020 March 29

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March 29

Just how difficult was it to find pizza, lasagna, and ravioli in the United States back in early 1881?

Just how difficult was it to find pizza, lasagna, and ravioli in the United States back in early 1881? I'm wondering about this in a hypothetical alternate history scenario where alien space bats put Garfield the Cat's brain in James A. Garfield's body right after the latter's inauguration as US President in March 1881. Garfield the Cat is, of course, a huge fan of pizza, lasagna, and ravioli and would undoubtedly be craving it as "President Garfield" in this scenario. Futurist110 (talk) 06:15, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Pizza#History tells us that "The country's first pizzeria, Lombardi's, opened in 1905". So commercial pizza might be a challenge. HiLo48 (talk) 06:26, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Looking at Italian Americans, the 1870s were the turning point for immigration, with twice as many immigrants coming in that decade (46,296) than the previous five (22,627). However, it wasn't really until after World War II that non-Italian Americans were readily eating Italian cuisine, with even Italy not caring too much about pizza until the 20th century. Italian American immigrants sometimes had trouble getting ahold of the stuff they needed to make traditional foods, though canned tomatoes did start to appear at some point after the Civil War. That said, I have no idea how easy it'd be to get the pasta for the lasagna or the equipment to properly make it. Of the three items you asked about, ravioli would be the easiest to make.

If I were running a Tabletop role-playing game set in the northeastern US in the 1880s, I don't think I'd let the party buy any of that stuff from Non-player characters (except maybe ravioli from an Italian grandmother as reward for rescuing her). However, if an Italian immigrant Player character with any skill points in both cooking and engineering set out to make them, I would not make them roll to see if they could do it (though I might make them roll to see how good it turns out if they're trying to use the food to get someone's favor or else run a business). That said, since you're throwing alien space bats into the picture, all bets are off. Ian.thomson (talk) 06:57, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

I guess the question is about procuring ready-made products, but if employing someone to cook these up was an option, there would have been hope also in the 19th century. Pizza dough is essentially the same as the dough for leavened bread and can be made at home. Spinning it into a sheet like accomplished pizza makers do is tricky; beginners are probably better off by rolling it out on a flat surface, using a roller. In any case, home production of pizza is entirely feasible if you have the ingredients, a kitchen and an oven. Fresh pasta dough is also not particularly difficult – in fact easy – to make at home. For authentic Italian pasta you want semolina made of durum wheat, but other hard, not too finely milled wheat flour is probably good enough. Once you have the dough, you can roll it out in sheets, so home-cooked lasagna would not have been a problem. It is also not difficult to cut up a dough sheet in stripes, giving you fettuccine/tagliatelle. Home production of maccheroni and other pasta shapes formed by extrusion, without pasta machine, would have been problematic. However, macaroni and cheese (from factory-produced pasta) was already then a popular dish.  --Lambiam 11:34, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

You could buy both “imported” and “domestic” Macaroni, Spaghetti and Vermicelli from 1890s Sears catalogues as a matter of course (e.g. 1897; note that the generic term “pasta” wasn’t used at the time). The 1883 British Army Navy Store catalogue also has a variety of Macaroni. Cheers ⌘ _hugarheimur 18:47, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

More information at How Italian Cuisine Became as American as Apple Pie (being pedantic though, apple pies are English [1]). Alansplodge (talk) 19:04, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

The concept of pasta/noodles (if not the name) was well known in America almost since the founding, Thomas Jefferson became fond of pasta while in France, and introduced to the U.S. an early form of baked macaroni and cheese as early as the late 1700s; as noted in that article recipes for it were appearing in cook books as early as 1824. As pasta extrusion machines were not common or cheap in the early 1800s, it was probably a recipe for upper-class people, but it was known. This article notes that the romantic story of Jefferson bringing pasta to America is, while true, probably not the source, as English aristocrats had been eating macaroni in England half a century earlier, and those that emigrated to the colonies brought the practice with them. That same article notes that the first American pasta factory opened in 1798, and that pasta was available as a working-class foodstuff by the Civil War (1860s). While Italian Americans may have introduced particularly Italian was of serving it, it certainly existed as a common foodstuff in the U.S. long before the first major waves of Italian immigrants. It also bears noting that the particular style of Italian-American cooking is mostly distinct from actual Italian cooking, it is an offshoot of some particular southern Italian styles (predominantly Sicily and Naples) but even then, dishes Americans know as distinctly Italian were generally invented, in their familiar forms, in America and would be unknown in Italy. --Jayron32 14:07, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Exercise

How can I find out who put this sentence on this article plus the reference(4)? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise In terms of health benefits, the amount of recommended exercise depends upon the goal, the type of exercise, and the age of the person. Even doing a small amount of exercise is healthier than doing none.[4] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.151.100.40 (talk) 06:56, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

You can use Wikipedia:WikiBlame to find out. Ian.thomson (talk) 06:58, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

There exists a tool by the name of WikiBlame which can find the addition (or removal) of text in an article's history. Go to "View History" and find the link near the top that reads "Find addition/removal" or select the (alternate) link for a shinier interface. Then fill out the form and hit "submit". Sometimes it works, sometimes it fails. The standard manual way (which WikiBlame mimics) is a "binary search" of the revision history where you narrow down the range of revisions which changed by halving the distance between them, until you locate the exact instance you're looking for. This can be time-consuming when done manually on a busy, large article. Elizium23 (talk) 06:59, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

I've tried to find it but I can't as I did this before. If someone could please help me that would be greatly appreciated? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:7427:6B00:C832:21D6:C29D:32DD (talk) 06:17, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Using WikiBlame on the second sentence ("Even doing a small amount of exercise is healthier than doing none.") reveals the text was added in revision #925914819 by User:WhatamIdoing on November 12th, 2019. —TheHardestAspectOfCreatingAnAccountIsAlwaysTheUsername: posted at 07:28, 1 April 2020 (UTC)