Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2018 May 19
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May 19 edit
Inland Revenue vs. HM Inspector of Taxes edit
Back in the 1990s I had a job working for the Inland Revenue in the UK. However, I remember that officially my employer was stated not as the Inland Revenue, but as "Her Majesty's Inspector of Taxes". Clearly there was some legal nicety which meant that HMIT, rather than the IR, was my officially designated employer. What were the precise legal definitions on which this turned? --Viennese Waltz 10:17, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
- I had a job in the Valuation Office Agency and I seem to recall my employer was the District Valuer and Valuation Officer (both of them were the same person), rather than the VO or the IR (of which the VO was a part). I think it's something to do with it being the DV/VO (in my case) and the HMIT (in yours) being the person who has the legal authority to do the work according to the wording of the relevant Acts, but couldn't swear to it. It's a good question! DuncanHill (talk) 13:15, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
- Interesting. If your theory is correct, and I have no reason to suspect that it is not, then Her Majesty's Inspector of Taxes, or some current equivalent, ought to be the official employer of those who now work for HM Revenue and Customs. But HMIT is a redlink and Google has not come up with any legal definition of the term, so I suspect the office may no longer exist. The Act that governs the workings of HMRC seems to be the Commissioners for Revenue and Customs Act 2005, which established Commissioners for Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, so maybe these Commissioners are the current equivalent of HMIT. But to complicate matters further, I seem to recall from my time at the Revenue that "Commissioners of Inland Revenue" existed in parallel to HMIT and were certainly not my employer. --Viennese Waltz 13:36, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
- The 2005 act says the commissioners may appoint staff to be known as officers of Revenue and Customs, it also says they are responsible for "the collection and management of revenue for which the Commissioners of Inland Revenue were responsible before the commencement of this section". DuncanHill (talk) 13:55, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
- I found this in the National Archives, which says "From the introduction of income tax, Government-appointed Commissioners - usually the landed gentry - were responsible for administering and collecting taxes with Surveyors having a watching brief. This pattern is essentially the same today. Surveyors have since been renamed Inspectors, however, and now have total responsibility for assessment and collection whereas Commissioners resolve disputes but have no executive duties." DuncanHill (talk) 14:01, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
- At the time of which the OP speaks the tax offices were grouped into two divisions. There were the offices of "HM Inspector of Taxes", popularly known as "tax offices", which communicated with taxpayers and were open to personal visits by taxpayers to discuss their affairs. There were also offices of "HM Collector of Taxes" to which the money collected (e.g. under the PAYE system) would be remitted which were no doubt responsible for ensuring the payments were kept up to date. The OP apparently worked in the former group. 87.112.145.168 (talk) 16:22, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
- That sounds right. But what I want to know is, what was the legal or constitutional relationship between those offices and the body then known as the Inland Revenue? And furthermore, do those offices still exist, and if not, what has replaced them? --Viennese Waltz 17:36, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
- The current tax-gathering instution in the UK is Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs. --TammyMoet (talk) 13:22, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
- I know that already. That is not my question. --Viennese Waltz 18:39, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
- The current tax-gathering instution in the UK is Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs. --TammyMoet (talk) 13:22, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
- That sounds right. But what I want to know is, what was the legal or constitutional relationship between those offices and the body then known as the Inland Revenue? And furthermore, do those offices still exist, and if not, what has replaced them? --Viennese Waltz 17:36, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
- At the time of which the OP speaks the tax offices were grouped into two divisions. There were the offices of "HM Inspector of Taxes", popularly known as "tax offices", which communicated with taxpayers and were open to personal visits by taxpayers to discuss their affairs. There were also offices of "HM Collector of Taxes" to which the money collected (e.g. under the PAYE system) would be remitted which were no doubt responsible for ensuring the payments were kept up to date. The OP apparently worked in the former group. 87.112.145.168 (talk) 16:22, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
- I found this in the National Archives, which says "From the introduction of income tax, Government-appointed Commissioners - usually the landed gentry - were responsible for administering and collecting taxes with Surveyors having a watching brief. This pattern is essentially the same today. Surveyors have since been renamed Inspectors, however, and now have total responsibility for assessment and collection whereas Commissioners resolve disputes but have no executive duties." DuncanHill (talk) 14:01, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
- The 2005 act says the commissioners may appoint staff to be known as officers of Revenue and Customs, it also says they are responsible for "the collection and management of revenue for which the Commissioners of Inland Revenue were responsible before the commencement of this section". DuncanHill (talk) 13:55, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
- Interesting. If your theory is correct, and I have no reason to suspect that it is not, then Her Majesty's Inspector of Taxes, or some current equivalent, ought to be the official employer of those who now work for HM Revenue and Customs. But HMIT is a redlink and Google has not come up with any legal definition of the term, so I suspect the office may no longer exist. The Act that governs the workings of HMRC seems to be the Commissioners for Revenue and Customs Act 2005, which established Commissioners for Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, so maybe these Commissioners are the current equivalent of HMIT. But to complicate matters further, I seem to recall from my time at the Revenue that "Commissioners of Inland Revenue" existed in parallel to HMIT and were certainly not my employer. --Viennese Waltz 13:36, 19 May 2018 (UTC)