Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2017 May 11

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May 11

Story Research (1) ; 1960's vs 1990's in noticeable details; 1960's pyshciatric practices.

This may end up being a series of long questions (and a lot of ongoing disscussion), but they all relate to a science fiction script I was developing very slowly. It's in misc because I couldn't think where else a lengthy research question like this went.

The basic premise (which I am happy to share) is a large old "Hospital" ( i.e think large 'physciatric hospital') and nearby grounds which have fluid time field owing to some kind of hush hush research that took place in the past, which my two story leads have walked into, inadvertently, nominaly starting in 2016. At a railway station in 1966 my story leads know they've "Petit Trioned" as they call it, the era being 1966 as they ask directly. However at the station they are picked up, by an employee of the Hospital, but in leaving the hospital, the car drifts forward in time to 1996 (just after the Hospital site closed.) The other eras would be 2016 (so effectively modern). As the story progresses they find in 1996, some notes about the hush-hush research, and that the 1966 doctor has inadvertently allowed some of the patients to create a pocket dimension due to some experimental therapy inside the Hospital, which requires our story leads to find a way back not just to 1966, but "Beyond the Viel" to repair a rift that shouldn't even be possible..

1. A good part of the action takes place at night, in a mostly rural area, so what would be some dead giveaways they've moved between eras, that would be noticeable by a character from 2016 vs 1966?
2. The suppposed hush-hush research would have taken place in the mid 60's, and so would it be plausible this was some kind of drug therapy?
3. Does anyone have a guide to what sort of patients would be in a mid-size pysch unit in 1966, what sort of consultation procedures would be used? and the wards be organised, compared to what a member of the public would generally be aware of?

If it helps I've started a table for comparative notes :

General geogrpahic setting : Southern England.

Item	1966	1996	2016
Hospital and site	Hospital is still active.	Just post closure.	Site is now a housing estate.
Railway station	Railway line has just closed. (BR Era)	Railway line is disused.	Railway line lifted. Converted to cycle/bus route.
Radio/ Music (not necessarily pop.)	Dance Bands/Light Programme	BBC Radio 5 Live (commenced March 1994).	?
Street/road lights. (affects hue in sky IIRC)	Not necessarily in place, possibly Mercury?	Sodium or CFL?	Starting to be LED?
Therapy, notes on, knowledge of.	see e.g. The Ipcress File. Also LSD/DMT researches?	The notes on the 'experiments' would be in archive, albiet not public. as FOIA not yet quite in place. Maybe there's an old filing cabinet that wasn't searched at Hospital closure etc? Possibly some ex patients have vauge memories of research going on.	Documents would exist in a central archive, if they weren't "lost" in moves around offices, and Departments etc.. Possibly more active investigations into what really happened, calls for an enquiry etc.
Photography techniques (in science/medicine)	Mostly B/W,	Still film, color now likely,	Very much digital, would older photos be in digitisation yet?
Documentation and record techniques.	Handwritten notes, Clinical faculty may have used reel to reel recording (Side note when did doctors/therapists have to start taping sessions in the UK?)	Records would if work continue be in published journals. Recordings of ex patients more likely to be on cartridge tape. Published papers likely to be word processed/DTP.	Recordings more likely digital. Would earlier stuff be digitised? (I.E scans, recordings. etc.)?
Non experiment Patients?	?	Hospital's closed so probably moved into community care, or depending on severity of cases other units. Some not connected with the research discharged.	Most likely recovered/discharged or in other units depending on severity.
Car models.
Police?	Most likely a constable on a cycle? Even in 1966. Will be aware of the Hospital, and there may be procedures in place, in respect of missing patients, 'fly-aways' or escapes. Most likely to be on land-line phone.	Possibly less visible (at least on foot), Traffic Police will be in something like an Astra, and will look noticeably different to a 1966 character. Use of radios and Hi-Viz will be a dead giveway for 1966 vs 1996.	May be starting to move back to bikes at a local level (PCSO), (so a 2016 PCSO might seem more familiar to a 1966 character?) May have heard rumours about the old site etc.
Hospital Staff attire	?	?	?	?

And yes I do intend to link the archived version of the page eventually, even I don't use everything I find it in the script/story. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 00:38, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Just added suggestions re the cycle path/bus route (inspired by the conversion of the Fareham–Gosport line, Radio 5, The Ipcress file (60's book/film about tech+drug brainwashing) – you might also look at Porton Down: hope these help. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.60.183 (talk) 13:22, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

There are several other examples of rail lines turned into paths, the Downs Link, the Monsal Trail and the High Peak Trail spring to mind. List_of_rail_trails#United_Kingdom has a full list. Alansplodge (talk) 15:32, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict) On your point about railway lines, I believe that the rails were lifted in fairly short order after closure, but a suggested alternative is: 1966 - just closed, 1996 - rails removed, 2016 - line reopened. See Great railway revival as Beeching’s axed lines open again 50 years on (2015). Alansplodge (talk) 13:38, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

And as for dodgy 1960s experimentation, see Edgewood Arsenal human experiments for an American example. Alansplodge (talk) 13:52, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

It sure paid to get it the right study group there, where you would be exposed to alcohol, caffeine, and cannabis, vs the wrong groups, which got sarin or VX gas. :-( StuRat (talk) 00:17, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

• Looking for obvious anachronisms, such as clothing styles, hair styles, makeup automobiles, electronics, etc. would be useful, as would noticing relative plant growth; for example a newly planted tree in 1966 may be mature by 1996, and cut down and with a stump left behind by 2016. --Jayron32 13:59, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

  Also, home lighting would be different. CFL lights would have replaced incandescent bulbs by 2016, maybe not universally, but often enough to be noticed. --Jayron32 14:01, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

• Ivy growth is a good way to show the age of a large, old institution. StuRat (talk) 00:30, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

• Also, works of fiction that may help you out; One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest for 1960s mental hospitals, Girl Interrupted for 1990s mental hospitals --Jayron32 14:23, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Yes I've seen the first of those, but relates more to a US situation. My action is definitely set in the United Kingdom. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:51, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Electroconvulsive therapy was more common in the 1960s than today. Alansplodge (talk) 14:51, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

How common was ECT used though? I, vaugely recall the scene in the first film mentioned, but someone else suggested it was somewhat inacurately played.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:51, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

"In the UK in 1980, an estimated 50,000 people received ECT annually, with use declining steadily since then". From Electroconvulsive therapy#Usage. Alansplodge (talk) 16:31, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

On the road, the style of licence plates would have changed. The EU standardized plates would be most common in 2016. I'm not sure if they had already replaced the old-style ones by 1996. See here [1] --Xuxl (talk) 15:17, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Hmm, would that be something a 2016 character picks up on over something more obvious though? It may be something a character moving from 1966 to 1996 would though.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:51, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Yes that's the idea, it's a way to tell you're no longer in 1966 (even if the plate is on a model that already existed back then). --Xuxl (talk) 15:55, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

What about closure of village schools, post offices, rural police stations and country pubs (often turned into posh houses)? Disappearance of AA and RAC boxes? Alansplodge (talk) 16:27, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. The pub thing is probably a more 1996-2016 thing, but certainly a 1966 rural pub is going to look differently externally? Any archive photos for comparison? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:41, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

(BTW I'm considering , if story development suggestions vs research questions should be disscussed on a Wikiversity thread rather than here.) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:22, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

North American and Italian light pollution increases by about 3 times each generation. Maybe the linear-looking extrapolation of 70s to 1996 satellite data since that map was made (c. 2001) is too high (the 70s and 90s had high and low energy costs respectively, population growth decelerating or reversing in most of the world, very urban areas having so much light that I can't imagine is still increasing rapidly) But 1966 to 2016 is still very noticeable. I don't see why Southern England wouldn't also get brighter similarly. Streetlight color is unlikely to be noticeable in the sky or even visible to the naked eye in a rural area far enough from large amounts of people. Very rural areas have such dim clouds that they're gray or black (at least overhead). High light pollution areas would have very noticeably green or blue clouds if the area used certain streetlight types more common in the past and if your home year has pink/orange clouds from HPS (like New York City till c.2016) or white expensive older technology or LED lights then it'd be very noticeable. Even the least hazy, clearest moonless night in the middle of NYC outer boroughs was pinkish blue from a dark roof in the HPS-era (maybe not from the street) so it being blue with a hint of green would be telling to those who notice these kinds of things. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:28, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

@Sagittarian Milky Way: I found this as well, not that I fully understand what it's saying: http://www.asdi.com/getmedia/05be9959-ebac-4251-a1ce-1537b5e7b743/SPECTRAL-SIGNATURES-OF-NIGHTTIME-LIGHTS.pdf.aspx. It seems to be some spectral analysis of nighttime lighting, presumably this would give the precise "glow" lines for older lighting types :) Noting here in case it's of use to other people.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:15, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

I don't know about Southern England, but here in USA the downtown area of subburbs changed a lot from the sixties to the 90s. What were once thriving city centers became sad sites for urban decay as all the higher class shops moved out to malls on the edge of town, and the downtown department stores were driven out by the big box stores.

To a visitor from 1966, the many USA suburban downtown would look like it was devastated by poverty. (Even if the city was really thriving, just in a different way.)

Did something similar not happen in UK?

ApLundell (talk) 18:55, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

To an extent, butcher's shops and greengrocers have been often replaced by coffee shops, fast food outlets and nail bars. There are a number of regional and national campaigns like Totally Locally. Most town centres in the UK have managed to retain at least some of the big name retail outlets and are still a going concern. However, the question was about rural areas. Alansplodge (talk) 16:48, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

side discussion on suitability of question.

Ghost writing is done at a very high figure, well over $50US just for research. Please see our guidelines and seek professional help. μηδείς (talk) 19:03, 11 May 2017 (UTC) You don't have to answer, but OP asks clear questions that are answerable with references. Participation is voluntary, please feel free to help some place you want to, but don't tell others they can't help here if they choose. SemanticMantis (talk) 19:31, 11 May 2017 (UTC) @SemanticMantis: Take it to the talk page please, User:Medeis had a reasonable point here.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:47, 11 May 2017 (UTC) Close your own thread if you want, but I don't think medeis had any grounds to turn you away. When people comment here in thread about the appropriateness of a question, I will feel free to reply here, that is how we discuss on WP. If medeis had commented on this thread at the talk page, I would have replied in that place. I don't think this is literally your homework, but even if it were, it wouldn't matter. Our policy says we won't do your homework for you, not that we cannot help with homework. We answer all kinds of questions on the math page involving homework, and plenty of people charge $50/hr for math tutoring. That doesn't mean people can't ask questions there that someone might charge to help with. I have collapsed this discussion on suitability, feel free to move everything to the talk page, or reveal all of it at your discretion. SemanticMantis (talk) 13:43, 12 May 2017 (UTC) Fair enoughShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:46, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Local authorities are more savvy about the environmental damage caused by excessive lighting than they were - see Light pollution#Re-designing lighting plans. For an example of how "care in the community" has impacted healthcare see Friern Hospital. 86.151.48.31 (talk) 22:42, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

American, and a decade off from your target, but you might still get value from this unique work : "The Psychiatric Hospital As A Small Society " ApLundell (talk) 17:03, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Things in 2016 one wouldn’t find in 1966: wi-fi or other mobile phone signals, and civilian-accessible GPS coordinates. An interesting plot twist might be a misunderstanding of the time frame generated by seeing a nicely restored 1966 car.DOR (HK) (talk) 09:56, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

'Spectrum' Usage was something I was considering, Elsewhere on the Reference desks I asked about what took over old BBC AM (i.e. MW/LW) radio frequencies...

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:37, 14 May 2017 (UTC)