Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2016 July 13

Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

July 13

Louis Farrakahn

not a forum--please take concerns about articles to their talk pages
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Why is it that a society of veterans, fire fighters, and policeman known as the Oathkeepers are labeled I. Your website as an extremist group? Yet Louis Farrakahn is labeled simply as a religious leader of NOI? Really? While he promotes and preaches the murder od white men and their families. This website is a disgrace. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.8.106.74 (talk) 04:27, 13 July 2016 (UTC) You should discuss problems you have with articles on article talk pages. However wikipedia does not label Oath Keepers as an extremist group, at least not in the article itself, so perhaps you need to take another read. Alternatively if you have problems with some other "website" you should take it up with them, since there's nothing we can do to help you with other websites. Edit: If the problem is with another article and not Oath Keepers, I'm not going to check every single article mentioning the organisation, and this is why it's helpful to use article talk pages. Sometimes you may need to take the issue somewhere else appropriate (not here), in which case you do need to mention what article, just as you always need to specify what you're complaining about when it's unclear in any other aspect of life. Our article does say the ADL and SPLC have labelled various elements of the Oath Keepers as extremist which is a different thing entirely. I assume this is a factual description, and the ADL and SPLC are organisations who's tracking of such things is generally considered significant; so will resonably be included in an encyclopaedia such as wikipedia. The Nation of Islam article likewise says it has been called as "black supremacist and antisemitic" and "a hate group" by named others. Louis Farrakhan is a WP:BLP and the standards are stricter, still our article does say he has been described as "antisemitic and a proponent of an anti-white theology" by named others. Note that many sources are not going to consider the members of a group particularly relevant into how they are describedas to whether to call a group extremist/hategroup/whatever, rather go simply by their ideology edit: and especially actions, and rightly so. In fact an extremist group of the people you've described is frankly much more scary then one of random people. (Especially in a country with more gun control, which admittedly isn't the US.) So I'm not sure how "society of veterans, fire fighters, and policeman" is supposed to reassure anyonerelevant. Nil Einne (talk) 05:23, 13 July 2016 (UTC) Farrakahn once described Judaism as "a dirty religion". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:02, 13 July 2016 (UTC) Right, probably one of the reasons various groups have labelled him anti-semitic which our article mentions. Nil Einne (talk) 08:37, 13 July 2016 (UTC) To be fair, while our article only mentions extremism in quotes from the ADL and SPLC, the lede sentence currently does call it "an American radical organization", with "radical" referenced by this SLPC article, without the term used elsewhere in our article. It could be argued that, lacking supporting references to mainstream media, this violates WP:NPOV, Of course, the place to make this argument would be in the article's talk page or edit history. -- ToE 14:33, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Help

referred to WP:BLP/N
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Hello - my name is Alan Major. I have a current wiki page and wanted to know how to eliminate pictures and images. Thank you for your assistance! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.183.98 (talk) 10:53, 13 July 2016 (UTC) You will probably have better luck asking this sort of question over at the Wikipedia Help Desk. —Steve Summit (talk) 11:27, 13 July 2016 (UTC) The Help Desk is fine, although in this particular case I'd recommend you try WP:BLP/N. However presuming you mean Alan Major, the answer may be that you can't as it sounds like you were in a job where public appearance were common, so photos to be expected and the photo itself doesn't seem to have been a significant privacy violation. Nil Einne (talk) 14:38, 13 July 2016 (UTC) I have mentioned this here Wikipedia:Biographies of living_persons/Noticeboard#Alan Major Nil Einne (talk) 14:41, 13 July 2016 (UTC) I don't see any indication of a connection between the coach and the IP's location in Kansas. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:11, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

I probably shouldn't bother, given that this question is hatted and the remark is off-topic anyway, but just for @Baseball Bugs:' edification (or anyone else's who doesn't know), when an IP address geolocates to the United States, but not to any more specific location than that, the geolocate page puts it in Kansas, which is the geographic center of the Lower 48. --Trovatore (talk) 21:03, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Our article also suggests the coach took medical leave in January last year and as per one of the sources used, permanently left the NC team in March of last year. Even ignoring geolocation issues, I don't see how we know where the coach is or what they're doing in July 2016. Although as with many here I'm sure, I hope they're doing well. (If someone does find something, unless it's well sourced please don't add it to the article.) Nil Einne (talk) 23:03, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Wine questions

First, I have been told that the colour of wine is not a product of the colour of the grapes used, but the presence or absence of the skins (skins lead to red wine). Is this quite correct?

Second, I generally prefer New World wines, but particularly enjoy sparkling wines, such as Champagne, Prosecco and Cava, which are Old World wines. Are New World equivalents (equivalent in the sense of being sparkling) available in the UK, and what are they called?--Leon (talk) 17:32, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

1) No, that's not entirely correct. If you use white grapes, which actually look green, but their juice is clear, you won't get a red wine. But, the color is indeed in the skin, so you will need to include the skins from black or red grapes to get red wine.

2) "Sparkling wine" is the general term for that type of wine that avoids any legal consequences of calling it Champagne, which, understandably, those in the Champagne region of France think should be only used for their sparkling wines. StuRat (talk) 19:07, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes, but do we get sparkling New World wines in the UK, and what are their names? I would like to try some.--Leon (talk) 19:30, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

I googled '"new world" sparkling wine site:.uk' and found lots of ads. However I also found this and, rather less relevant, this. Thincat (talk) 20:08, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

I like this wine https://www.wolfblass.com/en-gb/wines/sparkling-brut/pinot-noir-chardonnay and it's easily obtained in supermarkets and wine shops. --TrogWoolley (talk) 11:35, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

It has been shown that experts can fail to identify the origins of various wines (they are all made grapes from species, Vitis vinefera grapes). For real New World wines, look for wines made from New World species of grapes which have distinctly different tastes (mostly Vitis labrusca but also Vitis rotundifolia and others). These are less commonly available. Rmhermen (talk) 21:34, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

DICE

В надежде увидеть в проекте DICE историчность. А так-же не допустить несправедливого передела ролей стран Антанты и Тройственного Союза на фронтах ПМВ. Российская Империя, а позже Республика Россия вместе с Францией являлись главенствующими державами в данном конфликте, наравне с Британской империей, Автро-Венгрией, Германией, Италией и Турцией. Я считаю крайним проявлением варварства и кощунства обходить одну сторону конфликта в угоду другой. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.42.208.137 (talk) 18:37, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

If Google Translate is to be trusted, this posting is about the Entente Cordiale and the Triple Alliance (1882), but it doesn't appear to contain a question. If there is a question here, please can you ask it in English? A machine translation will probably be enough for us to work with. Tevildo (talk) 20:40, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Or maybe ask it at the Reference Desk in the appropriate language, if one exists. Our ref desk front page has links to other languages. --71.110.8.102 (talk) 22:32, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

I translate thus: "I wish to see the historical concept used on Russian TV-Tsentr television (which should not allow) unfair revision of the roles of the Entente countries and the Triple Alliance on the PRC fronts. The Russian Empire and later the Republic of Russia, together with France were the main powers in this conflict, along with the British Empire, CPS(?), Austro-Hungary, Germany, Italy and Turkey. I believe the extreme manifestation of the conflict's barbarism is biased one-sidedly in favor of one side." AllBestFaith (talk) 23:12, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Bedroll

I visited a few days ago after being directed here from somewhere else (don't ask me where, at this point), and discovered a page about Old West bedrolls. I wanted to improve upon it because the West is my major area of expertise. Now all I can find is a redirect page that takes me to "sleeping bag," which is not the same thing. What became of the entry? I distinctly remember it; it even had a picture. If it's gone, how can I create one myself?

I suppose you have some way of knowing who I am, but if you don't, I'm chrijeff.

Chrijeff (talk) 20:05, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Bedroll has been a redirect to sleeping bag since August 2007 — see the history. So it's hard to guess what you found.

Definitely you can change the redirect to a standalone article if you like. There's always the possibility that others won't agree and will merge it back into the sleeping bag article, but you can do it.

For an article, even a very short one, you should have at least one reliable source backing up whatever claims you make. That might not be enough to save it from getting merged, if others don't agree that the topic has independent notability. --Trovatore (talk) 20:12, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

We have an article Cowboy Bedroll with a picture. Could that be what you were looking at? Thincat (talk) 22:00, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

I took the liberty of adding Cowboy bedroll to 'See also' section of Sleeping bag. Should Bedroll redirect to Cowboy bedroll instead of Sleeping bag (my vote is "yes")? --2606:A000:4C0C:E200:3994:3C44:6154:DBD2 (talk) 02:55, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

I changed redirect (as above). 02:58, 14 July 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:A000:4C0C:E200:3994:3C44:6154:DBD2 (talk)

• Cowboy bedroll seems like it is copied from one of the refs, which is presently a deadlink but can be seen on the Internet Archive at [1]. Doesn't this appear to be a copyvio? It is not a straight cut and paste, but many sentences contain the same phrasing, without quotation marks to show they are lifted from the source. Edison (talk) 15:49, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
  • So all the more reason for User:Chrijeff to improve the article (and, indeed, rewrite it). Thincat (talk) 18:23, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
    • My "reliable source" would be a published book, Fay Ward's "The Cowboy at Work," plus some adapts from my personal notes. Since lifeintheoldwest.com now seems to be extinct, I think it would make sense for me to rewrite and expand the article "Cowboy bedroll." If anyone officially connected to Wikipedia has a problem with that, please reply by, say, the end of this week; if I don't hear, I'll log in and get to work. [[User:Chrijeff]Chrijeff (talk) 13:53, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

We are all "officially connected to Wikipedia" (including you). Happy editing! --2606:A000:4C0C:E200:F4F7:2137:52D:3045 (talk) 18:20, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

See https://web.archive.org/web/*/lifeintheoldwest.com.—Wavelength (talk) 18:24, 18 July 2016 (UTC)