Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2014 January 7

Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

January 7

WhatsApp group

I'm new to WhatsApp and smartphones in general. Recently I've been added to a group. When someone writes in this group, there are often phone numbers and not names displayed in my notifications since I haven't saved them to my phone contacts. I'm considering doing it because it's getting annoying to look up who wrote. However, I don't want to appear to be a creep. I know all people personally and we get along quite well. We just don't write each other on WhatsApp. I only added the ones who actually started chatting with me. For people who have hundreds of phone contacts, it wouldn't be a big deal, but I don't belong to them. What do you think?--2.245.207.42 (talk) 01:45, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with WhatsApp and how it works, but would the people know you've saved them to your phone contacts? If not then I would say your fears are groundless. Even if they do know, they are hardly going to think you're a "creep" (whatever you mean by that). If you're getting lots of messages pop up with only phone numbers to show the sender I can understand why that would be annoying. Personally I would add them just so that you can see their names. --Viennese Waltz 08:33, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

IP ranges

Is there a way I can look for the contributions of a given IP range? Like for example, if it were 101.102.103.xxx then I could run a bunch of contrib list requests, one at a time, which could get pretty tedious. Does anyone know a way to streamline that process? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:22, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Preferences -> Gadgets -> Advanced -> Turn on "Allow /16, /24 and /27 – /32 CIDR ranges on Special:Contributions forms". Then open Special:Contributions and enter the IP as 101.102.103.0/<range> where the range would be any of the accepted CIDR ranges as specified. So for a /24 (101.102.103.1-.254) -> enter 101.102.103.0/24 . For an example of output, try 86.24.55.0/24 Nanonic (talk) 07:38, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

NB. as with all Gadgets, this can be a bit hit and miss with some contributions not showing up. YMMV. Nanonic (talk) 07:52, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you all for the advice. I'll give it a try. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:09, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Twins born on new year's eve

If one twin is born on December 31st mere minutes before midnight and the other is born on or after midnight on January 1st, will they be considered the same age or a year apart? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.156.128.86 (talk) 04:43, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Googling the subject indicates that parents matter-of-factly treat them as having two different birthdays. Babies in their first year or two are typically labeled as being "X months old", so their being born in different years is not really a factor. One area where it could come up, though, is in terms of income tax. Children count as tax deductions. If a child is born within a given year it counts as a tax deduction for the full year. So the taxpayer would be able to count only one of them for 2013, and then both of them for 2014. However, when that first child reaches adulthood, only the second-born of the two twins will be a deduction in that final year, since the first-born will have reached adulthood on the 31st. See Personal exemption (United States) for more info on this detail. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:18, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't know about the US, BB, but the tax year in the UK is April to April, so it wouldn't matter. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 09:38, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

The have different birthdays, in different years. This could have an effect when registering for sports and school and whatnot. I had classmates back in my schooling days that were put in a later entry deliberately due to late December birthdays, so such parents would possibly have an opportunity to account for that. Mingmingla (talk) 05:21, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

I have a late in the year birthday and would pass by some things and not others because different clubs/sports/etc had different cut off dates. Though I can't recall any of them being as late as Dec. 31. Dismas|^(talk) 07:47, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

This article suggests some of the differences and their implications, in Canada at least. - Karenjc (talk) 08:11, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

If the twins were Korean the first twin would be one already! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asian_age_reckoning#Korean 8.17.117.40 (talk) 16:21, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps an unnecessary remark, but we have an article Relative age effect. Thincat (talk) 20:09, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

• This reminds me of how I used to panick my younger sisters on New Years Eve telling them to eat up, because this dinner was the last meal we were going to have until... next year! The children's ages are only 'a year apart' one day a year, and that usually being a school holiday, at least in the West. The cut-off age for US school students is usually in August or September, near the start of the new school year. Here are the cut-off dates for Kindergarten in Massachusetts. This was considered an issue both for my youngest sister, born in late August, who was placed with the older class and graduated with honors; as well as with my July-born nephew who was judged too young for his class, since he beat up the other boys. He was also placed with the older class, and is in advanced placement. The big thing to remember about dates and legal ages is that they are basically magical concepts. The change in the drinking age in the US, for example, from 18 to 21 never meant that 19 year olds suddenly became unable to hold their liquor. μηδείς (talk) 20:53, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

This is a common problem in any situation where a smoothly varying "analog" quantity (in this case the number of revolutions of the earth around the sun since some event) is used to control an on/off "binary" decision such as going to school or being allowed to consume alcohol legally. I always find it instructive to look at those arbitrary threshold rules and consider what would happen if you made the outcome be analog in nature also. So, to pick two of the examples from above:

• When a child starts to get close to school age, perhaps we should enroll him/her in a lower pressure education system (such as a Montissory day-care center) and gradually increase the amount of work they do until they hit the magic "going to school today" date by which time they would already be spending 99% of that time doing this. This would give the child a softer introduction into the world of education.

• Instead of having a legal drinking age set by law, have the amount of alcohol that can legally be consumed increase gradually from zero to a healthy adult human dose over many years. My ex-wife (who is French) recalled that she was given watered-down wine at lunchtimes in school in her early teens. Many parents believe that "alcohol isn't anything particularly special or wonderful that only adults are allowed" is an attitude that would do a lot to prevent binge drinking in colleges - and indeed we started out offering our son tiny amounts of champagne on special occasions and small amounts of watered wine with meals and he's grown up into a man who doesn't drink much because he doesn't see a particular need to do it - but also isn't so horribly morally opposed to the stuff that he can't socialize and gain whatever small benefits there are from very modest consumption.

So there is much to be said for taking an analog quantity and thinking about how to turn it into an analog result rather than a binary one. Sadly, lawmakers (in particular) find it much easier to pick a really arbitrary number and enforce it to an insane degree. SteveBaker (talk) 14:58, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

SteveBaker (talk) 14:58, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Twitter trolls

How did the police track down the two people who today pleaded guilty to sending abusive tweets? --Viennese Waltz 16:22, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Typically they would contact Twitter; large internet companies have a dedicated team of people who deal with legal and police enquiries (like WP:OFFICE). They would give the police the IP address from which the tweets were sent, and other information to do with the account (such as email addresses associated with it). The police then contact the ISP which owns that address and say "to whom did you have IP 12.34.56.78 assigned on this date/time?" and the ISP would tell them the subscriber's name and other details. The police then go talk to the subscriber - if it's a multiple-person household they have to figure out which person (which might include a houseguest) sent the message. Mostly people will admit it, but the police would typically seize computers and other devices for analysis. It's a bummer if someone in your dorm (e.g.) were to send such a message (or be engaged in something like child porn filesharing) and the police will potentially seize everyone's computer, tablet, phone, usb sticks, backup DVDs, etc., and keep them for months and months. A more determined person might use a public network (like a cafe or library) and/or anonymity systems like TOR to confound the police's tracing, with varying degrees of success. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 17:56, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Or remailer systems which have a policy not to co-operate without vast amounts of court paperwork :( Sfan00 IMG (talk) 21:41, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

According to yesterday's Newsnight report, one of the trolls was tracked down by a journalist who had found their true identity by befriending them online and then cross referencing some of their other accounts with their Sony gamer's ID. The victim in this case tweeted (presumably about the other troll) "incredibly frustrating that I had to do the investigative work myself rather than the police". You might find this Newsnight interview interesting, though the bit about the journalist was immediately before this interview - it is probably available on iPlayer (but I can't view it from my location). Astronaut (talk) 15:20, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Midnight blue tux in London under 700 GBP

Where could a man buy a tuxedo in midnight blue for under 700 GBP in London? Preferably Central. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 6 Shevat 5774 23:39, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

You would be better of, asking around for a dinner jacket in London. Buy off the peg and get your tailor/girlfriend to nip and tuck it, for less half that price.--Aspro (talk) 00:30, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Charity shop? HiLo48 (talk) 00:36, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Not a dinner jacket, that would just get me a jacket without the trousers (although a white dinner jacket for the Summer would be another thing to find later in the year). It's the trousers of the same cloth that makes it a tuxedo/dinner suit. I'm thinking of mid-range quality, so not that Tom Ford 4500 USD one, but something of decent quality that I could then take to a tailor to have slightly altered to the right fit. Thrift shops in a major city like London would likely be picked clean of anything worthwhile. Mind you, clothing is one of the few things in London that is generally at more reasonable prices than in, say, New York City, so 700 would get you something nice (Ted Baker has tuxes for even less, but not in midnight blue). The issue is finding one of the right colour on the peg in the first place, haha. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Shevat 5774 02:29, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Is this one too light? Or this one? They have Central London stores, and a next-day click and collect service if the size or style isn't in stock at your preferred store. Bear in mind that "tuxedo" in the UK, if used at all, does tend to refer to the jacket rather than the trousers, so "dinner suit" is the safer term to be sure of getting what you want. -Karenjc (talk) 08:34, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Ah the fun variations in the language. The fit on those is not right (slim or, preferably more fitted), unfortunately, and they don't have my size, but House of Fraser does bear some exploring after John Lewis turned out to be a bust on their site. There is a Hugo Boss one that looks promising though of mixed fabric (not that anyone actually notices such things so long as its not shiny). Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Shevat 5774 14:24, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

How about resale stores, which tend to be more upscale than charity shops ? Also, have you considered renting ? I so rarely wear a tux that if I bought one, it would need altering each time I wore it, so that doesn't make much sense financially. StuRat (talk) 08:41, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

There's enough black tie events each year that I could attend (dances and such), that it's better to buy. My dimensions don't change all that much and keeping the fit right is an incentive to eat healthy and exercise. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 7 Shevat 5774 14:24, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

How about this one? Again, it's just the jacket but maybe they have trousers to match. This chain has branches all over London. --Viennese Waltz 08:42, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm afraid that's a smoking jacket. Smoking jackets would be out of the question, I'm afraid.Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 8 Shevat 5774 18:55, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

That,'s a good point StuRat. If he mixes in a social circle where he was expected to ware one frequently, he would not be much fussed about the price of ownership, of not just one but two or more dinner suits (and matching hand made shoes – silk handkerchief, a rolled up $50 dollar bill and some coke in a silver snuff-box, etc). Whereas, if he has only revived (say) one invitation to attend a formal function at the London embassy of the Duchy of Grand Fenwick, (with no guaranty of a second invite ) -then renting would be the far better option. The dry-cleaning bills and steam-pressing come included in the price. They will also hire a suitable starched Irish linen (the best) shirt and have the experience to know how to remove from it, any lipstick stains left by the Grand Duchess Gloriana's granddaughter – in the even the he should be ever so naïve (which I'm sure he isn't) to except her invitation to follow her into the Drawing Room to look at her etchings. A hire company can provide the complete man-about-town package. In London, people who are famous, for simply being famous, seldom own the clothes they are that they are photographed in. As is taught in the Classic Classes: When in Rome do as the Romans do.--Aspro (talk) 17:29, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Universities in London have a surprising number of black tie events. I am a student at a London university. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 8 Shevat 5774 18:55, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Another delusion shattered. I would have thought it more fitting for your discipline, to attend the these UL soirée's in animal skin loincloths? It s like Method acting. You have to become the subject your studying. --Aspro (talk) 20:01, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Haha, well I wouldn't mind attending in whatever constituted Canaanite or Israelite semi-formalwear, but I might catch a chill. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 8 Shevat 5774 20:15, 9 January 2014 (UTC) Though on second thought, my study is of the whole Mediterranean, where well-fitted and looking good is the norm (except Israel where it's do whatever). Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 8 Shevat 5774 20:19, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Why midnight blue? I've attended a fair few black tie and white tie events down the years, and never seen anyone in a blue evening suit. Even a very dark blue one would look too much like a lounge suit for such purposes, in my experience. AlexTiefling (talk) 23:59, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Midnight blue is one of the traditional colours for semi-formalwear. It's recently made a comeback thanks to Daniel Craig and other influences. It looks nicer to both the eye and in a photo (appearing black, whereas actual black takes on a slightly green look). I'm of the firm opinion that black should be reserved solely for funerals. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 11 Shevat 5774 15:01, 12 January 2014 (UTC)