Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2014 December 31

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December 31

specialization

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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You have a group of people who write most of the content, a group of people who format the content and do maintenance work like cleaning vandalism or categorizing pages, and a group of people who write templates and MediaWiki and bots.

My question is: what do you call these groups, preferably avoiding terms like "gnome" that laypeople don't recognize? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.231.230.236 (talk) 09:10, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

--ColinFine (talk) 14:35, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Eating male and female animals

Someone once told me that we eat male cattle only. Is this true? If so, is this rule true for other species? Why?--Leon (talk) 15:41, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

This is not true, at least in most Western countries. Both male and female cattle are slaughtered for beef. The best cuts of beef, however, tend to come from steers, or young castrated males, whose flesh tends to be more marbled. Marco polo (talk) 15:54, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Most veal however does come from male cattle as they are a byproduct of the dairy industry. 76.68.49.155 (talk) 17:41, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Plus, milch cows give better milk than bulls do, and are bred for their milk-producing quality, not their quality beef. μηδείς (talk) 16:30, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Although we tend to use different breeds of cattle for meat and milk. See our Beef cattle and Dairy cattle articles. Alansplodge (talk) 17:31, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Sorry Medeis, I may have restated the point you were making. "Milch cow" is a bit Germanic for us Britons. Alansplodge (talk) 17:44, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

No offense taken, especially given the explanation. But it is actually homegrown English: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=Milch+cow, the problem being that we outliers remember words you cityfolk have forgotten. μηδείς (talk) 21:00, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, the OED has cites going back to 1300, and Shakespeare used it, but I thought that the word was obsolete, or at least archaic, until I saw the cite from 1983: Madness & Modernity by C. R. Badcock " this demand for equality ... is a direct consequence of seeing the state as the milch-mother. If there are many siblings who must compete for the mother's favours ...". I didn't know that it was still used to refer to human milk, even metaphorically. Dbfirs 21:35, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

I have read milch cow in books written since the 1960's. Science fiction, een. μηδείς (talk) 04:00, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Sorry for stating the obvious, but females produce more other cows or bulls, thus continuing the production line on food. Due to the constraints of physiology, male bulls cannot, so after they have mated, we eat them. KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (Chin Wag) 14:46, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

true, ... except that the majority of male calves are not given the chance to mate, or even to become male bulls! Dbfirs 15:44, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, you actually only need one, and a massive harem of cows. Two bulls in a field will fight for dominance when there are females around. KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (Chin Wag) 21:19, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

So I didn't donate for the fundraiser.

What would happen to wikipedia if no one bothered to donate.

Would it just go poof. It's hard to think an institution as large as this would disappear into the horizon just like that. I mean, Dear Jimmy is a loaded guy so surely he would take the fall. That's why no one should really bother either.

Doubt adverts would cover the revenue. Although the ads they'd have to allow on the PrON sections would be funny as hell. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.12.252.148 (talk) 19:23, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia is hugely travelled, the first hit for many google searches, and would do just fine with minor advertising. There's a POV that people would stop contributing, but that's nonsense, given how important POV is to people, and how well places like Chumhum do. μηδείς (talk) 20:56, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

That's Medeis' opinion. Many would disagree. But either way, the discussion about advertising is not really answering the question. What would happen to Wikipedia: I doubt anybody could say for sure, but probably the same that happens to any non-profit organisation which loses income: they would look for ways to increase income and/or reduce outgoings. Advertising would certainly be one of the ways they would have to consider for increasing income, but the consensus has been so strong against it that I don't think they would do it until every other possibility had been exhausted. What else could they do? Perhaps give up some servers or bandwidth, which would reduce the responsiveness of the software, and might not save very much. It's a hard world. --ColinFine (talk) 11:43, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Of course it's my opinion. I even signed it. I am always surprised when someone expects me to hold someone else's opinion. μηδείς (talk) 04:02, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Isn't this a reference desk? 74.113.53.42 (talk) 19:29, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Well here's an even better idea. Jimmy allows full ads + pop ups + scrolling ads etc. The works. But also includes a redirect page spamming adblock plus prior to page redirection to said wiki. That way he could MILK it for himself and the wikimedia foundation, and everybody else wouldn't have to worry about Ads or pesky donation spam either 82.12.252.148 (talk) 15:30, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Jimbo Wales has little say any more on whether the wikipedias has ads. (It's also entirely unclear that Jimbo Wales would be willing to become the primary funder of the WMF. I'm not even sure he gives much money annually.) Anyway, the last time that came up, it resulted in a fork, and I think it's clear no one wants to repeat that experience. Particularly since the WMF already has teneous relations with numerous communities. As things stand, it's fairly likely that any proposal to put ads, even one far less extreme than suggested by 82 will end up in multiple languages forking, probably even including en. Nil Einne (talk) 15:04, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

If people stopped donating, the foundation would have to spend some of its gazillion dollars on important stuff, instead of wasting it on garbage such as the Viewer and this "Flow" thing. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:36, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Why do cats love to crawl into open dresser drawers?

Why do housecats love to crawl into open dresser drawers? Viriditas (talk) 20:48, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Where would you rather sleep (assuming you fitted); a drawer full of warm clothing or the floor? Fiddlersmouth (talk) 21:16, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Fitted? That is a term used of suits and shirts by tailors made. Otherwise the subjunctive and past are simply fit. μηδείς (talk) 03:58, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

You are mistaken as well as off-topic. See the "usage note" on this page. --65.94.50.4 (talk) 09:15, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

They also have a tendency to lie on freshly laundered or dry-cleaned clothing. Blazers are a prime example. Maybe some association with their caretaker and therefore an added sense of security? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 9 Tevet 5775 21:34, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

I think warm and soft is enough incentive. A freshly washed shirt right out of the dryer feels great to me, too. It's a mammal thing more than a Linus thing. I just saw one of mine stretched out on a clunky woodpile, so while comfort always wins, comfort is subjective. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:48, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

In addition to comfort, I believe they are always looking for new hiding places, since hiding from danger is one of their prime strategies. You might find that small children do the same thing, and for the same reason. Of course, they aren't actually thinking of future danger at the time, but the instinct to find good hiding places is there for that reason, and the more hiding spaces they try out, the more prepared they will be if actual danger strikes. StuRat (talk) 22:54, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

I've heard it called the "denning instinct". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:04, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

@Baseball Bugs:, that's exactly what I'm asking about. Does anyone know about this denning instinct in cats? What would their dens look like, for example, in nature, without any human structures? Viriditas (talk) 03:28, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Do you mean cats in general or in domesticated cats? The latter is the result of human action. I guess a feral cat would find a tree trunk or other sheltered spot. Not sure. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 10 Tevet 5775 04:51, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

For purposes of hunting prey it may be advantageous to remain hidden until the right moment to spring upon prey. A vantage point at higher elevation than one's prey may allow better visibility and the advantage of "gravity-assist" in the initial burst of speed with which one initiates an attack, but I should add that this is pure speculation on my part. These factors may be present in the open-dresser-drawer arrangement. Though little opportunity for hunting may be available in the average human home, such propensities may be instinctual. Bus stop (talk) 04:52, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Sir, my cat is an exceptional mouser when the situation calls for it. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 10 Tevet 5775 05:05, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

I heard of someone who has goats and cats and chickens, and the goats chase the cats and the cats chase the chickens, but reportedly they are all happy. Maybe the chickens chase someone but I didn't hear about that. Bus stop (talk) 11:58, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

We have a black feral cat at work that catches mice, rats and even rabbits in addition to whatever we feed her. She will often follow you around seeking a new hidey-hole. Last year she followed me into a container that we use for storage, without me noticing her. A colleague heard her mewing and scratching at the door three days later - eight lives remaining. Alansplodge (talk) 17:57, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Viriditas, if you want to know about the dens of wildcats – pretty relevant since housecats branched off from them only 9000–10000 years ago – you need go no further than Wildcat#Social and territorial behaviours:

The wildcat does not dig its own burrows, instead sheltering in the hollows of old or fallen trees, rock fissures, and the abandoned nests or earths of other animals (heron nests, and abandoned fox or badger earths in Europe, and abandoned fennec dens in Africa). When threatened, a wildcat with a den will retreat into it, rather than climb trees. When taking residence in a tree hollow, the wildcat selects one low to the ground. Dens in rocks or burrows are lined with dry grasses and bird feathers. Dens in tree hollows usually contain enough sawdust to make lining unnecessary. During flea infestations, the wildcat leaves its den in favour of another. During winter, when snowfall prevents the wildcat from travelling long distances, it remains within its den more than usual.

Surely clothes drawers are a pretty good substitute for "dens in rocks or burrows...lined with dry grasses and bird feathers". --Antiquary (talk) 18:51, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Agreed, thanks. And many smell "woody", so maybe that's what attracts them. Viriditas (talk) 02:37, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

By "woody", do you mean like cedar? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 11 Tevet 5775 03:25, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Plenty of maple, pine and oak dressers, too. Among others. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:21, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, but cedar has a very strong and distinct scent. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 13 Tevet 5775 05:24, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Cats are naturally curious and very territorial. I have five cats, and any time I bring something new into the house-the shopping, dry-cleaning, an empty box, a friend, whatever-the cats crawl all over it. They rub on it, paw at it, and eventually curl up and go to sleep on it. They are curious about new things, certainly, but they also want everything that is within their territory to have their own scent on it. Dresser drawers, in addition to being warm, safe, awesome places to sleep, are also places that they probably don't get to visit very often. They are a part of the cat's territory, so it takes every opportunity it can to hop in there and make sure everything is shipshape.146.235.130.20 (talk) 20:03, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Dogs and fireworks

What do dogs think fireworks actually are? Geffermonderught (talk) 21:37, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

No one knows, mind reading technology has only been invented in 2014. Even so, it has only been successfully tested on humans. Plasmic Physics (talk) 21:41, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

What do they think fireworks are? Oh, wait. Nevermind. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:49, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

As for what dogs are thinking, in general, the Canine Cognition Center is on the case. Among others. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:58, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

I can't speak for all dogs (or even one), but I suspect that they just hear some unknown danger (maybe painfully loud) that they have to warn their leader about by barking, or that they have to escape from, hence the cowering and whimpering. Dbfirs 22:04, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Dogs are a little bit like children. If you herd (perhaps the wrong word ) dogs/cats into the house upon these time, they pick up on human behaviour, that somethings going on that they are being protected from – so exhibit fear. Children, on the other-hand, who have the miss-fortune to be dragged to such a pyrotechnic display, with all its whizz bangs on a cold and wet night, have there parents constantly reassuring them. After each and every ear deafening assault on their young and sensitive ears, they are asked – Oh boy!That was exiting wasn’t it? So they accept that there is nothing to fear. The military know this, so when they train animals, (usually dogs and horses) they subject them to simulations of what they are likely to experience. Service personnel line up and simulate every thing a crowed can do. A few years ago Queen Elisabeth the Second was on a horse (on live TV) when someone fired off a firearm at her – the horse barely blinked and didn't brake step. So Q: What do dogs think fireworks actually are. A: What ever 'you' lead them to think. After all, do you actually know, with your Intellectual brain, just how potassium, strontium, barium, and so on, creates a star bust? One can not just add the ingredients together and hope for the best. So for an animal – they see it – and accept it - like kids do - if you let them.--Aspro (talk) 22:55, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Aspro is quite right. Two generations of my dogs were brought up with historical re-enactment. When they heard fireworks, they thought it was cannon, and waited for people in silly clothes to fuss them and feed them scraps. I think my old dog understands the plot. I used to take him up a hill on the last night of Edinburgh Festival, where he would sit down and watch the firework display with apparent enjoyment. (I couldn't move him until he got bored) Fiddlersmouth (talk) 01:28, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

• My German Shepherd bitch reacted to fireworks the same as thunder. She crawled against training and conscience, whimpering, upstairs, to be petted and comforted, with indulgence and encouragement. We assumed the low-pitched sounds were like some dread sky-dog-devil to her. She never explained in any detail beyond her whimpers. μηδείς (talk) 01:45, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Uhmm... & Uhmm again....Maybe her owner gives out vibes, that although her owner is not outwardly scared of lightning and thunder, the animal instincts pick it up – dog are very intuitive. Some owners (keeper of animals) views their animals as a simply possession, rather than a full member of the family that require one-to-one contact - just like a child. Veterinary surgeons often say, that it is the owners, that the poor mutt is suffering from.--Aspro (talk) 04:10, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

After a few years of experiencing human celebrations, I should think they would just regard them as fireworks as a part of human celebrations. It doesn't matter if they don't know how they are made (do you?). They will just see them as flashing lights (in their limited spectrum of vision) that are followed shortly after by a noise. KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (Chin Wag) 04:26, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Well, assuming you are talking about my family, our dog was aware that certain parts of the house; the formal living and dining room, the couches, and the upstairs were off limits. We got her in October, and thunder storms are rare until the late spring. So we were very surprised when she was well settled in how she reacted to the first thunderstorm, then the same on July 4th. Istead of sleeping at the bottom of the steps, we herad her whimpering and very slowly climbing the steps. We told he it was okay, and even then she crawled, rather than walked up the stairs. No one expected this of her, and no one in my family was afraid of thunder, in fact we quite enjoy the occasional storm. Happy New Year. μηδείς (talk) 16:37, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

I was not talking about your family, at all. However, I do see the similarity between a dog and a child. I worked in Japan at a language centre, and one of the 5 year old boys was the dominant one in the class. One particular day, there was a thunderstorm, and he looked at me and said, "Sensei, I am scared" and I said to him, "Don't worry lad, you're with me. I'll protect you." He was really submissive after that, and even for subesequent lessons. I hope he does well in life. Also, HNY2U 2! KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (Chin Wag) 06:30, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

The confusion was because I indented under Aspro, whom I assumed was addressing me, but accidentally after your post. Neat that you have lightning superpowers in that boy's eyes. μηδείς (talk) 17:55, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

I have known many dogs who go into a whimpering frenzy, hiding under the bed when they hear distant fireworks. Some owhers give their dogdrugs to calm them. They react as if it were a menace to their survival. Most cats, on the other hand, react calmly and take little notice of the noise. Some dogs bred for hunting turn out to be "gun shy" and can't stand the noise of shooting, while others have a good time when out hunting with the owner. The cited article suggests gunshyness is a learned behaviour, and that one can start the dog of with trips to the woods, seeing game, then hearing distant gunshots, as a conditioning process. Edison (talk) 21:02, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Paraphillias/knife play

Hi. I was talking with a friend about knife play, and I said that I would look up the paraphillic name for knife play in my book "The Odd Sex" by Dr Stephen Juan. Unfortunately I could not find a name for knife play. Does such a name exist? If so. What is the name? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.183.160.115 (talk) 23:07, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Other than "knife play", not really; it's not a paraphilia in its own right, distinct from sadomasochism or fetishism in general. Piquerism is the desire to stab things (in a sexual context), but that isn't the same thing as knife play. Tevildo (talk) 23:31, 31 December 2014 (UTC).