Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 August 6

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August 6

Why pay bills on the 20th of the month?

When, and why, was the convention introduced that people paid their bills on the 20th of the month? Moriori (talk) 03:30, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I've never heard of that convention. I'll guess that it's because folks got paid on the 15th of each month and paid the bills sometime after that. Can you point to an article or something that refers to this convention? RudolfRed (talk) 03:43, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I've never heard of the convention either. Many companies will set due dates on the 1st or 15th which are also popular pay days. And if the payment is sent out on that day, the payment often arrives to the creditor within the grace period. Some will also set the pay date on the monthly anniversary of the debt being established. For instance, you buy a car on the 5th and your following payments are due on the 5th of the month from then on. But by no means have I ever heard of the 20th being a convention. Dismas|^(talk) 04:30, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

It might have been, sometime, somewhere, but companies that do billings and other such mailings seem to set their own rules. Larger companies might stagger them throughout the month so they can keep their clerks busy all the time instead of them getting buried one week and slow the other three. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:29, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Note that although unspecified, I think from their name, history and contribs, Moriori is from NZ. It seems that the 20th is a common date for paying bills for businesses in NZ [1], [2], [3]. I don't think this necessarily holds to residential bills but some may apply the same date to both [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9]. Anecdotally I have two or three bills which are due not long after the 20th, I don't think these bills are consistent between customers, i.e. their may be some staggering but I'm not sure these due dates are totally random or dependent on when you sign up, I suspect given the 20th convention they generally make it on or after the 20th. I have other bills due closer to the end of the month. I think one factor is many send the bills near the beginning of the month and then give you 15 to 25 days to pay. (I can only think of one bill which seems to be totally based on when you subscribed to the service.) A search also finds a number of council bills other them those many specified earlier due precisely on the 20th, due some time in the 21-30 period [10] [11] [12] (although not [13]). So even though paying precisely on the 20th may be less common for residential customers particularly those not involved in the financial side of a business, I suspect it's one of the more common days due to due dates to ensure you pay your bills on time without paying very early. Nil Einne (talk) 20:45, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Another bill paying question

The question above brought up the memory of a question I had about paying bills. My wife has a student loan that she's paying on. It's set up on auto payment and therefore gets withdrawn from our checking account on a specific date each month. It used to be withdrawn on something like the 10th of each month which was inconvenient since we mostly get paid on the 1st and 15th. She called the loan company and asked to get the payment date moved. They offered either the 14th or 17th. She said that those were the only two days that their "schedule was free". Their words, not hers. She didn't inquire any more as to what they meant and I wasn't about to ask her to call them back just to satisfy my curiosity. So, can someone tell me why they would only have certain days "free"? It's not like a dentist appointment where someone will be waiting for you. This is all handled electronically, right? Dismas|^(talk) 04:40, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

My (somewhat uneducated) guess is that it's a server issue. Hot Stop talk-contribs 04:44, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

My guess is that it's just someone being lazy and unhelpful on the other end of the line. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 16:43, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

It's possible that the loan company runs their billing in batches, and doesn't run a batch every single night. If they run two batches per week, then that would fit with processing on 10th, 14th, and 17th, for instance. Neither the loan company which sends the bills, nor the banks which receive them, want to have to deal with seven small batches of bills every week from every single creditor.

Further, running just two batches each week means that – at least in principle – the creditor has a couple of days (instead of just a few hours) to sanity check bills and correct any really egregious errors. For less proactive creditors, it gives them a few days to fix any errors detected or reported in the last batch of bills before they send out the next one. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 18:21, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

You also have to consider customer service - people are much more likely to call in after they receive their bill (or haven't received their bill at the expected time), so by spreading out the bills over the month - even though the bills themselves may require little human involvement - they can spread the load on their call centers. Effovex (talk) 21:37, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Admiral Sir Sandy Woodward

Would he not automatically have been awarded the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal? Kittybrewster ☎ 07:14, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

It looks like he would have been one of the many recipients, yes. But whether he actually got one is something only a source could verify. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:16, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Please help me with this question about individuals in the workforce

Assess how to manage an individual’s expectations in respect to personal development. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elliottp81 (talk • contribs) 07:18, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Exam question? Confidence? Getting up in the morning? Responsibility? Leadership? Promotion? Increase in wages? etc Kittybrewster ☎ 07:19, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Restaurant

Is there any other restaurant like this one that currently it isn't closed? Or an even better restaurant, it will help if they offer Asian Food. Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 13:39, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Does it have to be in NYC? Kittybrewster ☎ 13:41, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi, Kittybrewster . Preferably. It could be in San Francisco or in Los Ángeles. It also will help a lot if it were a notable restaurant. Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 13:44, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

What do you mean by "like"? In a skyscraper? Popular with celebrities? Good food (Italian or Asian)? With a live band? Astronaut (talk) 16:26, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Astronaut,

1. Good appearance
2. Good location
3. Popular
4. Frequented by celebrities
5. Good food (Asian, Italian or Greek).

All of them, yes :). The live band will help :) It doesn't have to meet every single point but the most of them. It has to be a place where people doesn't bother celebrities if they are having dinner. Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 16:37, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I would try the restaurant reviews in a major newspaper: New York Times, San Francisco Chronicle, Los Angeles Times; or a restaurant review site like Zagat, Michelin Guide or a consumer review site like Tripadvisor. I saw 3 places I might be happy eating in, with just a few clicks on Tripadvisor. Astronaut (talk) 16:56, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Oh! I forgot something Astronaut, I can access only Wikipedia. My work has blocked everything on the Internet but Wikipedia (not even Commons, WikiQuote, etc). Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 16:58, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

If this is for a special night out, one thing I would suggest is check it out first if at all possible. Even if they're fully booked, just drop by to take a look at the menu, check out the atmosphere and ask some questions about booking a table.

I can't speak as to their popularity with celebrities, but the three I spotted on Tripadvisor in New York City got good reviews and were ranked #1 and #34 in NYC, and #3 in Brooklyn. Not that it is any kind of recommendation - I've not eaten at any of these - they were: Colicchio and Sons, 85 10th Ave (American & Italian cuisine, most items are around $30, website: here, look around inside on Google Maps); Buddakan New York, 75 9th Ave (Asian cuisine, most items are around $30, website: here); and The River Cafe, 1 Water St, Brooklyn (American, Seafood, International, Fusion cuisine, $100 for 3 courses, website: here, great view across the East River to Manhattan). Astronaut (talk) 17:29, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you so much Astronaut . I'm actually not going to eat there. I live in Cuba. I was looking for a restaurant for a scene I am writting for my next novel, which is located in three different places: San Francisco, Dublin and New York. A wealth man takes his girlfriend to a rest to propose to her. Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 17:39, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Another place with a possibly more recognised name for your story, and also popular with celebrities and has a close association with Robert DeNiro, is Nobu New York. However, why does it have to be a real location? Why not make up a restaurant and fit your own requirements to it (you can do the same with rooftops as well). Astronaut (talk) 20:01, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Awesome, Astronaut. But for that I have to know about addresses in NYC and the best streets. I know about the 5th Avenue and 8th Ave... but I don't know what are the best locations for a restaurant... and of course... a cool name. Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 11:58, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

What is roof spread?

and what causes it? Kittybrewster ☎ 15:37, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

This refers to a problem on houses when the roof is slowly collapsing outwards - the top of the roof is lowering and the edges of the roof that should be resting on the tops of the outside walls are pushing outwards. You can sometimes see it as the ridge-line of the roof sagging in the middle.

It's generally caused by someone re-roofing the house with heavier tile than the roof structure was designed for - or something like that - but I believe it can also happen due to heavy snow loads or sufficient leaks in the roof causing the underlay to get soaked with water. Anything that adds a lot of weight to the roof is a likely candidate. Possibly there are also structural causes if the roof wasn't built correctly or something.

SteveBaker (talk) 16:19, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Collar beams are one preventive measure. These are pieces of structural lumber such as 2x4's (US measure) which are nailed between the rafters down below the roof peak on every pair or every other pair of rafters, depending on local building codes and practices, often at a suitable ceiling height in the attic if space permits, so that drywall can be nailed to them to make a ceiling in the attic if desired. In other houses, the floor joists in the attic may run parallel to and connect the rafter ends, preventing them from spreading apart. Trusses can be used to support the roof, and are like a latticework bridge in preventing sagging. Edison (talk) 00:36, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Something said about Leonardo da Vinci or one of those guys

I think I heard this in a documentary long ago. Somebody said that X (not sure if it's Leonardo da Vinci or some other famous guy) went every day for a month to work to sit and stare in front of a huge block of marble or some stone material. Then, eventually, after just sitting there and staring for so long, he began working on it, and finished it within hours/days (very quickly). Can you find that quote/reference/whatever? I've looked a long time for it.Lotsaeditz (talk) 17:52, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

The one staring at the block of marble was Michelangelo, full story here. And I stare at File:Vierge.jpg and wonder why NeverDoIng believes it to be a sculpture by Leonardo da Vinci. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 20:16, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

For some reason, the Indonesia Wikipedia is claiming that that statue is Leonardo's Virgin of the Rocks at the Louvre. But that is a painting. Rmhermen (talk) 22:14, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Use of train stations in Seattle

If a person were taking a train from Santa Barbara to Seattle between 1952 and 1956, would s/he end up at the King Street Station of the Union Station? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.31.199 (talk) 18:01, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Could have been either. I don't think it was possible to do this without changing trains; the coastal/Salinas route ran to San Francisco (rather like US 101), and then you'd ferry or bus over to Oakland and catch the Cascade to Portland. From there, UP trains went to Seattle Union Station while all the other lines went to (and beyond) King Street Station. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 20:01, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

How would you explain to a 5 years old kid what pregnancy is? (novel question)

The Reference Desk does not answer requests for opinions
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
What's the best explanation that a father can give to his 5 years old kid who asks what does that his mother is pregnant mean? - not storks stuffs- Miss Bono [zootalk] 18:31, 6 August 2013 (UTC) Why not stork stuff? Do you want a different lie? It means that his mother is getting ready to have a little brother or sister. You seriously need to give a more detailed question if you want a reasonable answer. --Onorem (talk) 18:35, 6 August 2013 (UTC)--Onorem (talk) 18:35, 6 August 2013 (UTC) The kid's mom is pregnant and the kid heard his father saying that word, and he asks: What's pregnat?. I don't want a lie, I just want a reasonable story to tell to a kid. I've recently heard that you cannot tell a lie to a child. Miss Bono [zootalk] 18:42, 6 August 2013 (UTC) It means she's going to have a baby. Do you want to also give an explanation for the process of becoming pregnant? What are you asking? You might not be able to tell a lie to a child, but it seems like you can tell a lie to a Miss Bono... --Onorem (talk) 18:50, 6 August 2013 (UTC) What do you mean by telling a lie to a Miss Bono? I don't get your point, I feel offended :'(. I want to give an explanation for the process because you cannot tell a kid (or anyone) an explanation on something without telling the first part of the process. (maybe you don't understand me because English is not my first language, please, be patient with me) Miss Bono [zootalk] 18:59, 6 August 2013 (UTC) Exactly. "It means she's going to have a baby" is a totally approriate response to the question. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 18:57, 6 August 2013 (UTC) Yeah, and then the whys: How does a baby ended up in mommy's belly? Miss Bono [zootalk] 18:59, 6 August 2013 (UTC) "I've recently heard that you cannot tell a lie to a child." - I don't know who told you that...but they were not telling you the truth. You can tell a lie to a child. It happens quite often in my experience. --Onorem (talk) 19:05, 6 August 2013 (UTC) Onorem, I used the wrong verb, my bad... you must not tell a lie to a kid. Miss Bono [zootalk] 19:08, 6 August 2013 (UTC) My sister was born when I was six years old, and up until then, "your mother's going to have a baby" was just about the extent of the explanation I was given. A stork may have been mentioned, but I had my doubts about that. As to the "why," I'm not sure most kids are prone to ask that question in such a scenario. I also don't think it's correct that you can't lie to a kid (see Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus -- how many poor kids have been maliciously tricked into believing that those beings don't exist?). Evanh2008 (talk|contribs) 19:01, 6 August 2013 (UTC) I was 3 years old when my sister was born. I don't have the faintest recollection of how my parents told me of her birth. When my brother was born, I was 13. My mother (then married to a different man, we share the same mother but not the same father), simply told us that we were going to have a little brother or sister. It turned out to be a brother. When my sister herself told me she was pregnant, I initially thought she was joking. It took me close to ten minutes to realise she was being serious. My niece is now two years old and likes me very much. JIP | Talk 19:07, 6 August 2013 (UTC) "Mommy and daddy made it, and put it in their to grow." "How did they make it?" "Secret recipe". Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 19:12, 6 August 2013 (UTC) Isn't that cruel (the part of the secret recipe?) What about if the kid starts asking the same question at the kinder, or maybe even... Mommy and daddy made a baby in the kitchen in secret and he terrifies all of his friends. Miss Bono [zootalk] 19:19, 6 August 2013 (UTC) Who said anything about a kitchen? Also, how about the parents simply tell this kid not to take about this subject with other kids at school or with anyone else at any time? Futurist110 (talk) 20:19, 6 August 2013 (UTC) The OP agrees a focus on links and references would be more appropriate. μηδείς (talk) 19:51, 6 August 2013 (UTC) Actually, a simple answer or links inside Wikipedia would be better because if you give me external links I won't be able to follow them because of my poor Internet access. Miss Bono [zootalk] 19:54, 6 August 2013 (UTC) What about the father telling his five year old kid that a woman being pregnant means that she has a developing child living inside of her (in her uterus/belly area/tummy)? Would that work? Futurist110 (talk) 20:15, 6 August 2013 (UTC) As for the why, how about telling him that there is a way to do it but that he must wait until he is older to find out and must NEVER try it himself until he is an adult? Futurist110 (talk) 20:17, 6 August 2013 (UTC) Also, if this kid is into the details, you can say that internal body parts (without elaborating) from both males and females combine to make babies/children. This is accurate, since both the sperm and the eggs are inside people's bodies. Futurist110 (talk) 20:27, 6 August 2013 (UTC) (e/c) That is just asking for them to please go ahead and try it as soon as their plumbing is developed enough. Suggesting NOT X is equivalent in practical terms to suggesting X. But really, there's going to be at least 9 years before it's even possible for a 5-year-old, so there's no point in getting into instructions at all, one way or another, that far ahead. Kids are smart enough to know that there are zillions of things adults do that kids don't do, and they don't start to question that till they're a lot older than 5. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 20:34, 6 August 2013 (UTC) Futurist110, so, the father should tell him: Look, mommy has a baby developing in her tummy. It got there because mommy and daddy internal parts combined to make it. So, pretty soon you will have a baby sister/brother? Miss Bono [zootalk] 20:32, 6 August 2013 (UTC) @ MissBono: Yes, this is what I would say. I would leave it at internal body parts and simply refuse to elaborate any further no matter what until this child is much older. However, it is worth pointing out that I did not have any children yet, and thus I do not have any actual experience in answering these types of questions for little children. Futurist110 (talk) 20:52, 6 August 2013 (UTC) No, not the mechanics. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 20:34, 6 August 2013 (UTC) I didn't say very much mechanics at all here. Futurist110 (talk) 20:52, 6 August 2013 (UTC) What about the mommy and daddy love each other... story? Is there any movie or book that has some scene like that? Miss Bono [zootalk] 20:45, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Ms Bono, this kind of question cannot be answered definitively. It depends too much on people's opinions, individual circumstances and cultural expectations. As such it's not suitable for the Reference Desk. Rojomoke (talk) 20:47, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Ok, Rojomoke. Thanks for the answers given so far :) I will figure out something sooner or later. :) Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 20:53, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Feel free to think about what I said here as well, but please be careful due to my lack of experience in this regard (I don't have any children yet). Futurist110 (talk) 20:55, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

This does seem like an answerable question. There are definitely guides out there that give advice on how to discuss pregnancy and new babies with children. Miss Bono can't follow a link to them, but someone could definitely find some references and summarize what they have to say for her. I can't track down references right now because I'm at work (although luckily without as strict of a filter as her) 209.131.76.183 (talk) 11:42, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Over the years there have been a number of child-oriented books about "Where do babies come from", which the OP's local bookstore should be able to find. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:24, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Historically kids learnt a lot about this area from seeing what animals do, on a farm, or maybe pets. I guess the modern equivalent is videos on what animals do. HiLo48 (talk) 18:40, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

A recent book to help grown-ups speak to children about this subject is What Makes a Baby by Toronto sex educator Cory Silverberg [14]. BrainyBabe (talk) 20:55, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Cool Interactive Mapping Websites

I have recently found a website with a feature which allows one to determine the final borders of Israel and Palestine here -- http://www.ispeacepossible.com/map.htm. I also know of a cool website which allows one to draw United States Congressional district boundaries here -- http://gardow.com/davebradlee/redistricting/launchapp.html. Are there any other similar websites with features which allow you to play around with (and change/manipulate) maps, borders, and demographics? Thank you very much. Futurist110 (talk) 20:58, 6 August 2013 (UTC)