Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 September 25

Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

September 25

Number of Pakistani Armed Forces reserves

The "List of countries by number of troops" article has an unresolved dispute concerning the number of Pakistani Armed Forces reserves. Right now the article relies almost exclusively on the 2010 self-published report put out by the IISS. That lists reserve forces as "zero" apparently, which is the cause of the dispute. Do any other reliable sources trump/clarify/confirm what we have from IISS? I've had no luck trying to get ahold of something from Jane's, and the other sources being considered by the disputants concerned so far do not seem to help much. Anyone have any other clues? WikiDao ☯ (talk) 00:25, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

The problem with disputes like this is that they are often intractable because there are often no universally reliable sources for the numbers. For various reasons, countries may mask the actual size of their armed forces. They may inflate the numbers to make themselves appear stronger, or they may underreport them to hide certain elements of the military. Who knows, but there are lots of good strategic reasons why you wouldn't want to reveal the actual size of your military, or its composition. You may want to publish or announce some numbers, but there is no guarantee these numbers would be reliable or trustworthy. Furthermore, independant estimates are also often impossible or wildly unreliable because most countries do not allow unfettered access to their military for, again, very good strategic reasons. --Jayron32 03:01, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Reporting Fraud Against DMV

I was wondering how I report fraud against the DMV in California. I would like to report anonymously and can't find a form to do it. Any help would be greatly appreciated —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.169.33.234 (talk) 05:24, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

You should probably contact them via phone, so you can ask them directly. Their webpage at http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/home/dmv.htm has a phone number prominently displayed on it. --Jayron32 05:27, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I would rather do it online if possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.169.33.234 (talk) 05:30, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

You don't have to report it by phone, you can call the number and ask them how to do it online. --Jayron32 05:37, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Send them a letter. That will be much more anonymous than either the telephone or the internet.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 06:16, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

For anyone who (like me) is confused by TLAs, DMV is the Department for Motor Vehicles, not the manufacturer of milk products. Dbfirs 07:19, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm 99.9999% certain you're aware that you including a random acronym in your comment about how confusing they are, but just to make sure...? ny156uk (talk) 12:12, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I was aware that it was a self-referential initialism, but it wasn't random. Dbfirs 16:35, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Morgue safety

Do the refrigerated units that morgues store bodies in have safety devices to allow them to be opened from the inside like many walk in refrigerators used for food storage? Dismas|^(talk) 09:45, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I certainly hope so. Please someone say it's so, this is one of my worst fears. → ROUX ₪ 09:50, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Safety regulations will vary from one country to another, but in general, yes, all walk-in refrigeration units can be opened from the inside for obvious health and safety reasons. Coffins are a different matter of course.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 10:08, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Don't suppose that the morgue chiller manufactures have received any complaints so far.--Aspro (talk) 10:47, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Maybe you mis-understand. I'm not referring to a walk-in unit in a morgue. I'm thinking of the drawer type that hold one body each. Dismas|^(talk) 11:10, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

This manufacturer, at least, does (http://media.mopec.com/media/pdf/Morgue_frigs_wfcover.pdf). ny156uk (talk) 12:10, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

It is comforting to see that this manufacturer provide an always on light so that an occupant can see to scribble a Kilroy was here inscription upon the interior of the chillers wall ( Hey, I've found my way to the dead center of this hospital... I've been parked here soooo long that I've got a ticket on my toe... Yours -John Doe). What would be a nice addition, (apart from a chinagraph pencil hanging on a chain, with which to write with) would be sticky labelled, public information sign, giving instructions on: how in the hell you open one of these things with your toes!!!--Aspro (talk) 20:54, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I would imagine the coroner would carry out a number of checks to establish you were actually dead before locking your body in a morgue drawer. Astronaut (talk) 08:05, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

You would, would you.

Allison, who is now married with four children, said: “When the doors closed it felt like being in a tomb. It dawned on me that someone had to die before they'd open the doors so I was wishing it to happen.” [1]--Aspro (talk) 14:49, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if a medic alert bracelet may help. Something like "May look dead, but severe narcolepsy so probably not". Or if no one will check it. Nil Einne (talk) 01:34, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Or even I ATE'NT DEAD. CS Miller (talk) 13:19, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Morgues are rarely unattended, and metal cooler doors make a wonderfully satisfying boom if kicked or pounded on. Someone locked in a morgue cooler (even without a safety release) would be rescued in fairly short order (assuming the attendant didn't freak out and run at the hollow booms coming from the enclosed slabs). --Ludwigs2 01:58, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Jinja: SHIRAMINE JINGU / AKAMA JINGU & MINASE JINJA

According to the listing here at Wiki..., the three above jinja are categorized at Imperial Shrines, Rank 2. But when I visited these sites a few weeks ago, they are actually Imperial Shrines, Rank 1. I presumed at first the in-charge of those jinjas who gave some sort of historical accounts are right but when I read the articles here, I am now a bit confused. I need clarifications because I am studying these subjects. Can you please verify as to which is which. Thank you very much and more power. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jizt (talk • contribs) 12:03, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, a quick look at the Shiramine Shrine article reveals that the shrine was elevated to Rank 1 in 1940 - the list in the Modern system of ranked Shinto Shrines that I assume you are referring to and which lists it as Rank 2 has got the original rankings from 1871. This raising of the rank is also noted in the list notes on the same article - in fact, all three of the shrines you mention seem to have been elevated in status to Rank 1 in 1940. TomorrowTime (talk) 14:39, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

The rankings were set aside in 1946, when State Shinto was officially abolished. "Ex-imperial shrines" would be more correct way to described them today. And the three shrines are Rank 1 under Association of Shinto Shrines. Oda Mari (talk) 14:47, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Meg Whitman and Jobs

Meg Whitman has TV ads saying she took eBay from 30 jobs to 15,000 jobs. How many of the 15,000 jobs were outsourced overseas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.107.248.212 (talk) 12:59, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Political silly season notwithstanding - the apparent majority of eBay jobs are in the US (about 10K/16K) [2], mainly in California. Some CS folks are in Vancouver it appears. Which last I looked, is in Canada. And many employees around the world are there in conjuction with subsidiaries. Any abnormal outsourcing? Not that I could find. Collect (talk) 13:23, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

if you delete your facebook profile...

if you delete your facebook profile, are all the wall posts and comments you wrote on other people's walls, comments and photos automatically deleted as well, or do they remain? (It would be quite a pain if I had to delete them all by hand first)
--MrMahn (talk) 14:28, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

No, they all disappear automatically. But they aren't really gone for good; if you re-instate your account, they will re-appear again. Adam Bishop (talk) 16:41, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

As I understand, that is if you reinstate your account within the two week period immediately following your deletion. It's not possible to reinstate an account after that period - you could still use the same email address to open one, but it would be a different account, I think. I've never tried this, though. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 18:42, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I have friends who disappear for months, maybe even a year, and they can still reinstate it. I don't think Facebook ever actually deletes anything...it's pretty insidious. Adam Bishop (talk) 22:52, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

It's worth noting that there are two options - to deactivate your account, and to delete it. Last I was aware, the former option was easily accessible, but the latter required substantial digging to find. 94.168.184.16 (talk) 23:39, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Right, well, I did actually delete my account about 9 months ago - it is not easy to find, but is doable - and as a test I have just tried to get back into Facebook with the same Email address, and I now have a blank account, but with all the same friends I had before. Just no posts or anything. I can see problems potentially arising with this sort of state of affairs. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 00:40, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Are any of the posts you wrote on other people's walls still there, or did they vanish too? --MrMahn (talk) 01:50, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

No idea, sorry - the last message I will have left on anyone's page will be at least 9 months ago, and probably before that, and I don't want to trawl through hundreds of pages of LOLcats just to find something from me. Sorry. If you want to test it, though, make a new Facebook account, become 'friends' with yourself and write something on your own wall using this new account - then delete the account and see what happens. You might have to wait until the two week period is over before you see any results. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 17:00, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Hundreds of pages of LOLcats? I thought you said your account was blank.--MrMahn (talk) 21:08, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, mine is, but you're not asking me to look on my own account for messages from myself, are you? You are asking me to look on my friends' accounts - that's where the LOLcats and other useless stuff is/are. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 03:05, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Chinese Lanterns

Don't worry - this is not a request for legal advice. Over the past year or so, I have been seeing these Chinese lanterns floating over our house - quite a few each night (I mean dozens here) and I've been wondering whether there are any legal restrictions on them, as they consist of a paper lantern with an open flame (a candle?) inside. If one of these comes down in the wrong place they could cause a world of nightmares for someone. As I say, this is not a request for legal advice, as I am not intending to complain about them - I have no idea where they are coming from for a start. The legal aspect of these lanterns, however, intrigues me. They obviously are legal, but I am wondering if there are any laws which govern their use in any way, or even laws which pertain to their design, or anything in fact. TIA! --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 20:23, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm assuming you're talking about in the UK (surely things are surely very different in fire-risk places like California) it would seem not - this story suggests that there have been calls to ban them (but hey, it's Britain, there are calls to ban everything), or at least the ones with a wire structure. I'd imagine there is some civil liability to be had if one accidentally lands on something of value and sets it ablaze, but I can't find any evidence of anyone having actually litigated that in the UK. They have also been mistaken for UFOs in Wigan, but curiously not in Bonnybridge. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 20:36, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

One can not mistake something for an unidentified flying object. Either one can identify it, or one can not.--Aspro (talk) 21:03, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, yes, I forgot to specify the country - actually when I was outside before watching these things floating over, I was wording this post to myself and I did include the UK then, just not when I typed it. Anyway, yes, thanks for those links. I'll take a look into that. Incidentally and coincidentally, I went out after the posting and saw one which seemed to come down in the back garden of someone down our street. Pretty sure they won't be happy finding that tomorrow morning. Anyway, thanks. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 21:34, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

We released some last Chinese New Year (in the UK), and because we're near an airport a phone call was made to establish what rules we needed to follow. There didn't seem to be any, other than the requirement to phone the airport itself and let them know exactly what time we were releasing the lanterns, which was duly done. Original research, but in the case of all the lanterns we released, the light vanished when the lantern was pretty high in the air and rising (logical, since heat would be generated until the flame went out). One would assume that when it subsequently hit the ground the flames would be out, so there would be little fire risk, as with used rocket fireworks. (Although my brother, who lives in a thatched house, dreads the latter.) The wire structure does seem to be more of an issue because of the risks for livestock and wildlife - ours had a bamboo framework, which is said to be less potentially dangerous. Karenjc 22:27, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, there's a lot of info about them - including the bamboo ones - in that BBC link that Finlay gave. Fascinating read, actually. On a side note, a few weeks ago it was my late-cousin's birthday, the first since his untimely passing a few weeks earlier at the age of 35, and my family had a special celebration for him, setting off about 50 or more of these lanterns. I don't know if any phone calls were made, though, but I do know that the celebration was in Speke, which is very near to Liverpool John Lennon Airport. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 22:39, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

They might be Thai lanterns. Watch videos. Why don't you consult your local police or fire station? Oda Mari (talk) 05:18, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Gillenbie Outhouse

I see in the 1841 Census four men in the Gillenbie Outhouse, Applegarth, Dumfriesshire, Scotland. What exactly was the Gillenbie Outhouse? Thank you for your time.

David in Rutland —Preceding unsigned comment added by David in Rutland (talk • contribs) 22:07, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

A bit of googling informs me that Gillenbie is or was a farmstead of 2000 acres in Applegarth Parish. There are references to a "Gillenbie Cottage" that was used by shepherds; it isn't clear whether this is the same thing as Gillenbie Outhouse. I found no references to Gillenbie Outhouse other than the one you cite. Looie496 (talk) 23:08, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

The only mention on Google for Gillenbie Outhouse I found was the 1841 census and the names and ages of the four men living there at the time. The occupation of one was listed as 'agricultural labourer', which may fit in with what Looie496 has found. The link is here, but I am suspecting that it was you who posted the original question on that site, so this may not be useful for you. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 00:48, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

It should be noted that the term "outhouse" as a synonym for "latrine" or "shitter" is euphamistic. The term originally refered to any building outside of the main house, whether it was a shed, latrine, barn, etc. See Outhouse#Terminology. Eventually it came to mean "latrine" exclusively, but the term "Gillenbie Outhouse" as a residence doesn't mean that they were living in a latrine. It is more likely the men were living in an ancillary building on the Gillenbie estate, such as a shed or barn or stable, which may have not usually been used for habitation. --Jayron32 01:01, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

They were lucky to have a latrine to live in. When I was a lad we lived in a hole in t' road.... :) -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 01:13, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Here in Northern England, I didn't understand the question because "outhouse" still just means "outbuilding" here, as in Scotland, and as in most of England for the last 700 years. Is the euphemistic usage exclusive to the USA? ... and Jack, were you not "of Oz" in your youth? That joke sounds familiar! Dbfirs 02:34, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Aye - our Jack were on 'ere, by ekkithump. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 02:56, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Aye, tha's reet. A'd fergitt'n aboot them lot. Dbfirs 03:46, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Flippin' 'eck Jack, we dint even 'ave roods! Caesar's Daddy (talk) 07:38, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

And you try and tell the yoong people of today that, and they won't believe you.  :) -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 07:46, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

To get back to the point, I can confirm that "outhouse" doesn't mean a toilet anywhere (as far as I know) in the UK. Alansplodge (talk) 22:04, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Here in California, one of the reports for a local wildfire referred to the destruction of "eight homes and five outhouses", generating amused indignation... --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 02:30, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Wait, you mean those things that I've always called Kato Kaelins are officially outhouses? --Trovatore (talk) 07:34, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

French food

French food is full of sugar, oil, butter, alcohol, etc., so why are French people generally so healthy? --70.245.189.11 (talk) 22:28, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

See our article on French paradox. ---Sluzzelin talk 22:30, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WHAAOE. Everard Proudfoot (talk) 05:09, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

In my experience, the French diet may be higher in fat but they eat smaller portions, rarely snack between meals and don't eat lots of deep fried foods. The idea that the French consume more alcohol has some truth, but I also noticed that they rarely drink to excess (I've rarely seen a French person obviously drunk and staggering down the street). Astronaut (talk) 10:01, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I understand that the more recent research indicates that it is Proanthocyanidin and not Resveratrol that provides the health benefits. You get eight times more proanthocyanidin from eating an apple than from a glass of wine. 92.15.22.106 (talk) 17:43, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

The general summary I have heard, probably from NPR or the New Yorker, is that they eat less (smaller portions), eat better (e.g. not just endless fried or microwaved things), and walk more (than your average American, anyway). The article seems to go along with most of that. --Mr.98 (talk) 12:46, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

They also eat a lot of vegetables and fruit. The healthy things found in wine is obtained more abundantly by eating an apple. 92.15.22.106 (talk) 17:32, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

That's debatable. As I understand it there's considerable evidence that a large part of the protective effect of wine comes from the alcohol. Highly dose-dependent of course; over-indulge and the curve turns rapidly the other way. --Trovatore (talk) 22:08, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

See reference number 19 in the Proanthocyanidin article: 'Oenology: Red wine procyanidins and vascular health'. In any case I'm skeptical about the health benefits of alcohol. See Long-term effects of alcohol. There are other possible explainations. Many of the academic studies would get their results from what happened decades ago when people (apart from the French) did not eat much fruit and veg - see dreadful 1970s cookery books for example - so that a glass of fermented grape-juice may have been better than nothing. I recall one woman then who said that she alway ate an orange a day being regarded as eccentric. I wonder if the reduced rate of prostate cancer for men who ate tomato sauce/ketchup was due to a similar reason - when the population was eating very little fruit or veg, some from any source had a noticiable health effect. (Yes, I'm already aware of the beneficial effects of cooked tomatoes). Some ethnic minorities who avoid alcohol have a poor diet and poor health, so that may influence the findings. Drinking wine may be just a marker for affluence, and hence better diet and health care. The big alcohol industry wants alcohol to be seen as healthy, and people welcome an excuse for drinking. 92.29.116.227 (talk) 11:33, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Alcohol and cardiovascular disease may be relevant here. I admit I had my doubts but reading the article, it appears that the state of research isn't that bad and the evidence seems resonable. Of course I always have doubts about most dietary research even when the evidence is supposed to be strong. I would note that from Alcohol and cancer, it's clear that the evidence doesn't suggest much of a benefit of even moderate consumption for cancer in general. In particular theres only a few cancers which it appears it may benefit and quite a few where it in fact is a disadvantage (including Alcohol and breast cancer). Whether the claimed benefit for cardiovascular health is worth the apparent increase cancer risk would likely depend on the individual although the benefit for cardiovascular health does seem quite high if true. In terms of the original question, I think it's sometimes claimed red wine is beneficial when it comes to cancers too, which would suggest that aspect isn't related to alcohol. Nil Einne (talk) 14:06, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I think that the cancer claims for red wine are typically based on the properties of grapes, rather than alcohol. See Grape#Health claims for more information. Buddy431 (talk) 04:08, 28 September 2010 (UTC)