Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 October 8

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October 8

Buying music downloads from a French website

I'm trying to buy a music download from a French website. It's a recording that does not appear to be available in other countries as a lossless download (I don't want mp3 or other lossy formats) or as a physical CD. The owner of the recording (one of the major labels) has licensed it to a French online retailer, but only for sale in France. Apparently I will need a credit/debit card with a French address, or an IP based there, or maybe both. (I'm in the USA.) Bright ideas would be appreciated. ReverendWayne (talk) 02:05, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure it's not available as a physical CD? Ever? If it's owned by a major label, that would surprise me. If you tell me the artist and title I can try to find the CD online for you. --Viennese Waltz 07:58, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Mahler's Sixth Symphony, by Eduard Flipse and the Rotterdam Philharmonic, on Decca. Not on Naxos (which is dubbed from LP) or Bearac (also dubbed from LP) or even the orchestra's own release (apparently licensed from Naxos) but the one on Decca, which presumably has been remastered from the original Philips tapes. Thanks! ReverendWayne (talk) 00:26, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Budgie

How do i get my bugdies to lay eggs? I got male and female and I can make them mate but my female never lays eggs. Money is tight (talk) 05:38, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Our Budgie article talks a bit about Budgie breeding and some of the problems there can be with it. Good luck! WikiDao ☯ (talk) 05:48, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

If birds do not reproduce when other conditions are adequate, artificial insemination may be the answer. Sources confirm that works for many kinds of birds and are sure about chickens, pigeons and kakapos whose reproductive biology seems not too unlike budgies. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:23, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

My Dad used to breed prolific amounts of canaries and budgies and sell 'em to local pet shops and individuals in Northern England at a healthy profit during and after the WW2 years. He always gave an eyedropper drop of whisky or brandy to the hen bird directly on to her beak as he placed her with the cock bird, and they produced wonderful chicks as a result. It must have been the ornithological equivalent of the date-rape drug used today by some unscrupulous human males. But at least the practice used by my Dad ensured a steady stream of baby Budgies and Canaries - it made a lot of people happy as a result - and it made my Mum happy as there was always food on the table for our family of 2 adults and 5 post-war kids. 92.30.139.42 (talk) 18:29, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

What a lovely story; it made me happy too.--Artjo (talk) 20:37, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

How did they taste? ;) WikiDao ☯ (talk) 21:11, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Of thyme and parsley if they used Paxo.--Aspro (talk) 21:31, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Or did you mean by How did they taste? in the sense of:

A:My dog's got no nose.

B: How does he smell then?

A: Ruddy awful!

--Aspro (talk) 21:40, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Interested to know either way, actually. :) WikiDao ☯ (talk) 21:44, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

The only reference that comes readily to hand suggesting they taste good is from the Australian National Budgerigar Council (ANBC) Inc. “...however, it can be stated on reliable authority that the name means “good food”. Two extracts support this. In Budgerigars in the Bush and Aviary by Neville Cayley, Percy Peir is quoted as saying.....” [1] If it is sitting upright on a perch, I suppose that it represents a balanced diet or perhaps a meal that is perfectly balanced :)--Aspro (talk) 09:25, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

My male goes on top of my female's back, and each time seems to have an orgasm (basically it rubs its underparts on my female's back and then suddenly stops and flies away). Is that how they do it for they to lay eggs? Money is tight (talk) 08:13, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Basically yes, plus a lot of wing flapping. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:59, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Prevously-unexplored territory for wikipedia: Parakeet Porn. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:56, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

It's not porn, it's educational. (video) Cuddlyable3 (talk) 23:07, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Where did I say porn was not educational? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:31, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, it was rude of me to overlook your needs. Porn just reminds us adults of what we already know. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:39, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

If you only have two of them, perhaps one or the other is infertile?Snorgle (talk) 11:43, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Rock Hyrax

I need the exact sub specie of the rock hyrax that orrichanated from Nelspruit, Mpumalanga, South Africa —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.133.186.18 (talk) 13:23, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Think you might find it is capensis or full name Procavia capensis capensis Common Rock Hyrax. If you look at Mammalian Species: Procavia capensis by Nancy Olds it gives all the type localities . This means the location of where the animal was found, which was first discribed and been given that name. I can not see Nelspruit listed. Cavia capensis entery appears to be the closest. --Aspro (talk) 14:44, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

A question on intvu

is there some ways we can improve our interview skills on questions asked based on circumstances about leading the team e.g how will you handle the team if two people are not going well in the team/ what if you feel the top performer has behavioural issues do you throw him out , what are the challanges and changes you would introduce etc...etc i.e questions on events/circumstances ,so is there a link or a website that can help. sorry if this is too demanding i very well know this is not "very appropriate" a platform to asked about, but anyone who may, would appreciate it.. thanks in advance.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.95.140.188 (talk) 16:57, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Some of this is sometimes called "behaviour based interviewing", and a Google search for that finds quite a bit of helpful material. In general it works pretty well, except on software engineers (who seem to lack the "Delta Brain Wave"). -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 17:13, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

When I attended some training as an interviewer (many years ago) we were advised not to ask "what would you do if ... " questions, as they will tell you either what the candidate thinks you would want to hear, or else what the candidate hopes they would do. We were advised to prefer "what did you do when ... " questions. --ColinFine (talk) 18:00, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that was the gist of the interviewing course that I got. Stuff like "tell me about a situation in your work history when you had interpersonal conflict with your manager". It worked splendidly on hardware (electrical) engineers, who came equipped with lengthy stories of how horrible everyone they'd ever worked for was, and how noble and magnificent they'd been in response. But the software engineers all, to a man and woman, claimed they "couldn't recall" any such circumstance; it was like interviewing Nixon. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 18:11, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, not to be snarky, but the best way to answer questions like that is to know the answers. The questions that were mentioned only make sense for a management-level position, and a person shouldn't really expect to get a position like that without having some actual management skills. Looie496 (talk) 20:17, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Q: How will you handle the team if two people are not going well in the team?
A: I shall bring my experience of what works when this situation arises in Wikipedia. I will not tolerate bad behaviour such as rudeness by either part. I will encourage discussion and hold a neutral position until both parties are satisfied that their viewpoints are heard and understood. If the matter is still unresolved then I shall state my opinion and ask whether both will abide by that, or will they agree to whatever another uninvolved arbiter decides? For the sake of the team there will be no other option.

Q: What if you feel the top performer has behavioural issues do you throw him out?
A: No. I shall meet with him/her to ask about what is holding him/her back from giving his/her best performance that we value. Are there ways to help him/her cooperate easier with others? Does he/she realize that if the behavioural issue is not resolved, he/she will no longer be assessed as a high performer?

Q: What are the challanges and changes you would introduce?
A: I would start by installing spelling checkers in the PCs around here.

Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:29, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

You could start by correcting "challanges" to "challenges". Also, "What if you feel the top performer has behavioural issues do you throw him out?" is in need of grammaticisation. (You have asked for feedback and correction.) -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:44, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Most ubiquitous product

What single product can be purchased in more retail outlets in the U.S. than any other? I'm thinking it's probably a 12 ounce can of Coke, which can be found in any supermarket or convenience store, most drugstores, and a bunch of other places such as restaurants, ballparks, and amusement parks, but I could be wrong. Any other possibilities? Hemoroid Agastordoff (talk) 17:41, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I'd say the 20 oz bottle far outstrips the 12 oz can. Even my local Staples carries a few 20 oz bottles of various sodas near the check-out lanes. But the only place I can get an individual 12 oz can would be at some gas stations. Dismas|^(talk) 18:01, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Unless you count US currency as a product ("purchasing" 4 quarters with a $1 bill for example), I would agree with the 20 oz bottle theory. Googlemeister (talk) 18:23, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I think the Coke is probably a good bet. If there was a particular candy bar that had the same kind of market share that Coke does, it might qualify, but there's probably too much variety there. Those individual packages of Kleenex that hold a small number of tissues are pretty commonplace, but you wouldn't often find them in restaurants. Of course, many/most "bottles" aren't sold in ballparks/theatres in favour of the syrup-based fountain drinks. Matt Deres (talk) 19:21, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Bic pen? Bus stop (talk) 19:37, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Hershey Bars. Ubiquitous. Collect (talk) 20:35, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Coke bottles are more common than Coke cans, or certainly Hershey bars, where I live. Is it cheating to say the product is "water" without defining a brand? Comet Tuttle (talk) 22:00, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Water, water, ubiquitous, nor any drop to drink.  :) -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 22:35, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Not sure if you include all stores, but if you confine yourself to American and/or British supermarkets, the most purchased food item is bananas.[2], [3], [4], [5], [6]. So many bananas are sold in supermarkets, that the markets make more money off of bananas than any other single product, even though, on a per-pound basis, bananas are among the cheapest foods you can buy. (cited at several links above as well). --Jayron32 03:15, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Bad experience at airport

Previous title was "That feeling you get just before someone smacks you in the face.............". Brammers (talk/c) 12:07, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

My question? Last week I flew from Scotland to Mallorca (and return) with my wife using the budget carrier Ryanair. Despite many warnings about baggage charges, online check-in, chargeable hold baggage with severely restricted weight checks, severely restricted cabin baggage weights etc, etc., we actually had no problems, probably because we read the small print very closely and abided by the rules. We did see a lot of problems at both airports where the "victims" were clearly at fault for not doing so and suffering as a consequence, which consequently added to the wait of those behind the "malefactors". My question? Oh, yes. When we got to the boarding gate, after security etc., we saw one couple being refused permission to board because "they had not checked-in at the Bag-Drop" (previously known as Check-in). The couple protested that they had no bags to check in, only cabin hand luggage below the allowed allowance; that they had paid to check-in online; that they had turned up at the airport in plenty of time; and that they saw no logical point in queueing at the Bag Drop desk as they simply had no bags to drop. But they were still refused permission to board the aircraft and had to plead to be allowed to return to the "Bag-Drop" area to "Check-in" as they had already been allowed to pass "the point of no return at Customs". They eventually missed the flight. My question? I am not asking for a legal interpretation here - but am simply wanting to know what is the difference in real terms between a "Bag Drop" and a "Check-In" desk for future reference. In other words, if I don't have any bags to check in, and I have paid to check in online, why do I need to go through the "Bag-Drop" procedure? Thanks. 92.30.139.42 (talk) 18:21, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Heh, and after all that, your question appears to have nothing whatsoever to do with the title you've given it. I would understand it better if you'd called it "That feeling you get just before you smack someone in the face".  :) -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:03, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi Jack (no pun intended), your response was the smack in the face I was anticipating when I posted my question. I must be getting too good at this. But my question stands anyway. 92.30.139.42 (talk) 21:02, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Next time please use a descriptive heading for your question. --Saddhiyama (talk) 21:11, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Was the problem possibly that they lacked boarding passes? If they didn't possess them, then indeed they should have checked in, at the Check-In area naturally, and obtained them. They should have been stopped at the security checkpoint if they lacked boarding passes, though. Comet Tuttle (talk) 21:53, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Looks like it's a small print solution. Ryanair state here and in at least one other (fairly obscure) place on their website that passengers must get online boarding passes checked and validated before proceeding through security. It says you do this at the "Ryanair Visa/Document Check Desk" - presumably this is the same place as "bag drop" aka "check-in". In other words, you have to queue at check-in whether you have paid for online check-in or not, and whether or not you have any hold baggage to check in. As Comet Tuttle rightly points out, they should not have made it through security without someone pointing this out to them (although "validation" of their home-printed passes may not amount to anything more than a checkbox on a computer screen, so the problem may not have been apparent until they were compared against an approved list on a screen at the departure gate). Doubtless Ryanair, being committed to customer service, will want to review the clarity of their passenger information to ensure others do not suffer loss as a consequence of a similar misunderstanding. Karenjc 22:17, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO ANSWERED MY QUERY - INCLUDING JACK - WHO RESPONDED AS ANTICIPATED IN THE WAY HE DID. TO Sadhiyamah, I say, get a life. And to the rest, I thank you for confirming that Ryanair are simply using online Check-in as a subterfuge for charging people to home-print their boarding passes in the expectation that they won't need to go through the Bag-Drop alias Check-in procedure (thus generating yet more income for Ryanair. Yet another cover-up for customer abuse. Sounds something like a banking scam to me. But never again. 92.30.139.42 (talk) 23:27, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

That's a somewhat unnecessary remark to Sadhiyamah. He/she was just saying in a more direct way what I was suggesting in a more roundabout way. It really is important to have titles that reflect at least something of the substance of the question (hence our rule not to call a question "Question", for example). Your heading seems to have zero relevance to your question, hence our remarks. Typing in all caps is also not on, as it is interpreted as you shouting at us, which we don't like. We're quiet, nerdy types here, and frighten easily. But we also know how to stand our ground when necessary. Like now. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 01:58, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

In fact the guidelines make this clear, although it seems common sense to me. If you make a mistake because you are unclear of the guidelines or not sure what to put for the title, that's fine, but yelling or telling people to 'get a life' when they point out to you that your title is fairly useless is clearly not on. If it wasn't a mistake but your purposely put a useless title to annoy people or to get a response out of certain contributors, that's even worse as it's WP:POINTy and clearly disruptive behaviour i.e. highly unwelcome on the RD Nil Einne (talk) 16:58, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

It's not quite so clear-cut as you suggest (that online check-in is a scam way to relieve you of €5). The wording of the Ryanair FAQ actually says: "... all non EU/EEA citizens must have their travel documents checked and online boarding pass stamped at the Ryanair Visa/Document Check Desk ..." Maybe the couple in question non-EU citizens. Certainly, the last time I had no baggage to drop-off and checked-in online (with another airline), I went straight to security with no airline personnel seeing my home-printed boarding pass until I presented myself at the gate. If I had been refused boarding because of some tiny detail only buried in the small print, I would have been very annoyed.

As for the difference between "bag drop" and "check-in", there used to be a big difference when self-check-in (either with a machine at the airport or online at home) was something very few people did. Now though, there is no difference. Astronaut (talk) 09:07, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Astronaut is absolutely right about the non EU/EAA clause, and I hold my hands up in shame. However, further investigation of the Ryanair website reveals the following here. "If you are travelling with no items of checked baggage (cabin baggage only) and have printed your online boarding pass you can proceed directly to airport security (except non EU/EEA citizens)." I have read and reread that every which way, but cannot get it to mean anything other than "if you are from within the EU/EAA, you do not need to go to Baggage Drop if you have online boarding passes and no cabin baggage". So, either the people the OP saw were from outside the EU/EAA, or they missed their flights because Ryanair staff did not understand company policy. If I were them, I'd be looking for redress. (And I don't think the digs at Jack and Sadhiyamah were appropriate either - I spent a while puzzling over the title, trying to see whether I'd missed something important about the question, before I went off to try and help answer it.) Karenjc 10:25, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Free advice: As a frequent flyer I sympathise with the stress of waiting for slow impersonal procedures at airports while one is tired. The OP observed problems that affected other travellers ahead and must have been irritated not least by the added wait for him and his wife. After a good rest to detach one's feelings from the experience, it would be sensible to write a complaint to Ryanair. However your complaint should not focus on accusing Ryanair of subterfuge or of victimisation; rather you may suggest that clearer passenger information from them could have avoided a disapointing part of your holiday experience. Don't write "Never again". Karenjc is doubtless right. You may receive only a form letter in return but Ryanair cannot afford not to count complaints. I took the liberty of changing the title to help future reference and hope you don't mind. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:54, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

News in America

Anyone ever notice how over-dramatized the news is in America when you compare it to British news? Why is American news so over-dramatized? Battleaxe9872 ^{وکیپیڈیا} 22:15, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

"If it bleeds, it leads." The movie Bowling for Columbine by Michael Moore theorizes that one function of TV news in America is to surround Americans with an atmosphere of fear. (The film directly contrasts American news broadcasts with some understated Canadian broadcasts.) Comet Tuttle (talk) 22:26, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean by "the news." Certainly newspapers in the U.S. seem much more sober than many of their equivalents in Britain. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:32, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

A major difference between the two situations is that a huge player in British TV and radio is the BBC which, while it does chase ratings to some extent, is funded by the public through licences and by the government, so doesn't actually depend on ratings. American media doesn't have an equivalent moderating elephant in the room, and is almost exclusively dependent on advertising revenue based on ratings. In my view, that leads to a greater short term emphasis on sensationalism in American news services. HiLo48 (talk) 22:38, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I would make a slightly different argument than Comet Tuttle and Michael Moore. I agree with HiLo48 that, because the American media are completely dependent on advertising, ratings are much more important to them than to British media, where the BBC, sets a tone and would offer competition to over-the-top and moronic news. However, I'm not convinced that vapid stories about violent crime would necessarily draw more viewers than hard-hitting exposés of the utter corruption of American politics and its abject subjection to the big corporations and the wealthy oligarchy who control them. Because we have no real equivalent to the BBC to keep our mainstream media honest, our media, controlled by the same oligarchy, offer sensational "news" as a form of circus to distract the American people from the fact that they are being robbed blind. Marco polo (talk) 00:09, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Gee, and I thought my post may have been a bit too POV! Are you suggesting it's a variation on Bread and circuses? HiLo48 (talk) 00:19, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

When I was working in television news, one of the more frequent comments I heard was that the purpose of a news broadcast was to fill the time in between the commercials. — Michael J 00:46, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

The OP notices transatlantic media stereotypes that are not hard to recognize. There is the BBC with its sober history of binding together a colonial empire and later the resistance of occupied Europe, contrasted with the vapidity of CNN that dilutes a thimblefull of news in a sea of self-advertising graphics. However counterexamples exist. VOA and RFE/RL show constructive U.S. based reporting, and the UK has newpapers like the one pictured. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:57, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

I've removed the image, Image:Newsoftheworld.jpg, because it's fair use. - Jarry1250 ^{[Who? Discuss.]} 12:15, 9 October 2010 (UTC) Thanks. My carelessness. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:54, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

I wonder why the OP thinks this is anything new in America. It's not for nothing that newspapers were called "scandal sheets" a century or two ago. And keep in mind that the Hearst papers helped to fuel the Spanish-American War. Financial scandals certainly get covered here, but bad news that affects "us" is depressing, whereas bad news that affects "someone else" is kind of energizing: it breaks up the daily humdrum, gives us something to talk about or maybe even do something about. There's nothing much to do about the banks "robbing us blind". Neither political party really has the answers to that question. So it's more interesting, and safer, to focus on a warehouse fire in some obscure city. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:52, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

I say TOMATO!!!, you say tomahto? Clarityfiend (talk) 22:11, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Please explain how part of a song written and sung by Americans is relevant to the OP. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:52, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

It's just a joking reference to the differences between the British and the Americans (I wish I had said "KILLER TOMATO!!!" though). Clarityfiend (talk) 02:10, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Small text. Small joke. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:32, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Seriously? Do you have nothing better to do than to vent your childish spleen? Clarityfiend (talk) 04:20, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Seriously? Do you have nothing better to do than criticise people for trying to inject a bit of light-hearted humour into an otherwise straight conversation... gazhiley.co.uk 08:34, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't think Britain is that far behind in the dramatisation of news. I've noticed an increasing tendency towards drama on this side of the pond, though perhaps I haven't seen the worst of American news presentation. Dbfirs 07:50, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Significance of ten in China?

This article on the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11503729) states that people are rushing to get married on October 10, 2010 because the date is 10/10/10... but it doesn't explain why that date might mean something (and also has no evidence of statistical import, but that's another matter). I gather from the article that it has special importance to Chinese people, but it never says why. The only thing I was able to find after skimming the Chinese numerology page was Double Ten Day... but it doesn't seem like that's what the article was about. Any ideas? 69.120.0.81 (talk) 22:42, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

People in China might attach an even greater significance to the day, but such "special dates" are regarded as "auspicious days" throughout the world (or at least, in this case, everywhere that uses the Gregorian calendar), perhaps just because they are easy to remember. Perhaps someone here will try to make an edit at 10:10 on 10/10/10. Dbfirs 02:40, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't discount the historical day, just like Americans getting married on the Fourth of July, or French getting married on the Fourteenth.—— Shakescene (talk) 07:02, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

10 October 1911 The Wuchang Uprising leads to the demise of Qing Dynasty, the last Imperial court in China, and the founding of the Republic of China.

10 October 1945 The Chinese Communist Party and the Kuomintang signed a principle agreement in Chongqing about the future of post-war China. Later, the pact is commonly referred to as the Double-Ten Agreement and is celebrated in Taiwan on Double Ten Day (雙十國慶). Cuddlyable3 (talk) 11:31, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Does the same thing not apply to the 12/12/12, 11/11/11.......1/1/01? 92.15.17.139 (talk) 19:57, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

To computer geeks (not that there are any of those here), today is special because it looks like a binary number: 101010. As have several dates in 2000, 2001 and 2010. There should be some more in 2011, and that will be about it for the next 89 years or so. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:44, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Bah. No serious computer geek today would abbreviate the year to two digits. --Anon, 22:17 UTC, 2010-10-10.

Random googling turns up a "Ten Ten Restaurant"[7] but I suspect that's a coincidence, as I doubt "ten" means "10" in Mandarin. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:46, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Ten Ten ( + + ) day is the anniversary of the fall of the Qing Dynasty (today) S.G.^(GH) _ping! 15:19, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Look at the Wikitionary article for the Chinese Ideogram for 10 at wikt:十. Note meanings 2 and 3 in the Han etymology, become enlightened. Nanonic (talk) 23:05, 10 October 2010 (UTC)