Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 August 12

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August 12

Is the Empire State Building ever really empty?

Recently I went to the observation deck of the Empire State Building. While waiting in line, they had a bunch of displays talking about energy use based on number of people in the building throughout the day. At one point the graph of population actually reached zero people. I thought that they'd have a night watchman or two. Am I mistaken? Were they oversimplifying things for demonstration purposes? Dismas|^(talk) 01:39, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Nah. Night watchmen, janitorial staff, and late-night workers will always be around. But it's probably statistically close enough to zero for the purpose of confusing tourists. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 02:24, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

It might be completely empty following an emergency evacuation (fire, bomb scare, etc.) but that's about it. There will be some kind of security presense there at all times otherwise. --Tango (talk) 02:35, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

When the building is at it's busiest, there are 21,000 people working there - and a considerable number of the general public visiting there. If the graph you were looking at was on a typical sheet of piece of 'letter-sized' graph paper (which is 210mm tall) then if the graph dipped to just one millimeter above the axis (probably the thickness of the line it was drawn in) then that amount would represent 100 people. That's enough to have one security guard for every floor of the building. Compared to 21,000 people, the number of night staff there would be would simply be too small to represent on the graph - so it looks like zero. SteveBaker (talk) 03:48, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

An excellent answer, Steve. --Dweller (talk) 10:07, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers, everyone. The "graph" wasn't a standard graph. They basically had a number of stick figures displayed along with a clock. As the clock ticked away the day (a full day in about a minute), the number of stick figures decreased. From what I recall, it was between the hours of about 0130 and 0230 that there were no stick figures on the screen. I see Steve's point and agree that it's a good one. I don't remember how many figures there were at the middle of the day but I don't recall the number of stick figures being anywhere near 21,000. Dismas|^(talk) 17:42, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

OK - but the same argument applies. If they used a scale of (let's say) one stick figure for every 500 occupants - there would be about 40 to 50 stick figures during the busy parts of the day - but at night, if there were 100 people in the building - what would be an appropriate number of stick figures to display? The answer is 1/5th of a stick figure. But if you are rounding to the nearest whole number you get zero. So all you know is that there were fewer than N/2 people in the building - where 'N' is the number of people represented by one stick-figure. It's always the same way - when you summarize information, you lose the finer details. SteveBaker (talk) 02:39, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

One of the Irish Republican Army's last bombings in London destroyed an office tower (I can't remember whether it was the Baltic Exchange or at Canary Wharf) in the early morning on a weekend. It still killed (as I recall) a night watchman and a newspaper seller. —— Shakescene (talk) 20:06, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Hey ! What the HELL is that ?

Please watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv-3Nwvs_ks&feature=related. Just at the beginning, almost at 0:00, you see a very horrible, black-faced, hairless demon-like thing sitting among the audience. What the hell is that ?  Jon Ascton  (talk) 04:31, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Don't panic. It's just some guy with a shaved head (or skullcap) and wearing grayish-blue makeup. That's a Guinness Book of World Records show or some such, so maybe the guy has the record for wearing face-paint the longest number of days, weeks, months, whatever. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:50, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Its a tattoo. The dude just has his entire skin tattooed. No shit. See this google search which has lots of pics of that same dude. --Jayron32 05:51, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Is he Lucky Diamond Rich? Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:26, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Leviticus 19:28. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:17, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Just as an aside, there are medical conditions that turn you blue-gray like that. See Argyria. But I agree that this guy looks tattooed. --Mr.98 (talk) 14:20, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Actor in an arbitrary universe

Suppose you are a decision-maker in an arbitrary universe. As a decision maker, you obviously have some abilities which you may perform. Suppose you also have some information about the universe in which you reside. How would you be able to determine the potential consequences of each of your potential actions?--220.253.106.99 (talk) 08:43, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I'd guess. In my arbitrary universe I'm always Right. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:19, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I hope this arbitrary universe obeys the laws of cause and effect consistently. Then I either ask the guy who did it before (tradition) or I have to learn it myself, inductively (science). 198.161.238.19 (talk) 14:51, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

There are two main options: deduction (working it out based on what you already know) and empiricism (doing an experiment to find out). --Tango (talk) 17:59, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

This has the ring of a homework question -- it is one of the basic issues in computational reinforcement learning theory. Looie496 (talk) 21:51, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

If the universe is totally arbitrary with no laws of cause an effect, then this is a trick question. You may make any decisions you wish, but the consequences will be random. Dbfirs 06:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Give yourself psychic powers then you can foretell it...hotclaws 16:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Where is The Shop?

Is The Shop located in Maine, like many other Stephen King creations? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.220.46.47 (talk) 13:49, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I searched for "Shop" in Firestarter on Amazon.com. It says they have offices in Manhattan, but their headquarters is in Longmont, VA. --Sean 15:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Virginia, according to the one before last page in The Tommyknockers. TomorrowTime (talk) 12:29, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Ronald McDonald Charities and Soda can ring pull tabs.

There is a drive on at the office where I work to collect Soda can ring pull tabs for the Ronald McDonald House Charities group. The claim is that the tabs we collect will be gathered together and sold to aluminium recyclers to raise money for the charity.

I'm rather sceptical about that. Why would they collect just the tabs and not the entire can? I can't think of any legitimate reason why they'd choose to do that.

Our article says that the can tab recycling has earned them $4 million since the start of the program 30 years ago...their web site says that public donations from their one-day-per-year fund drive event have raised $150 million since 2002...so the can tab thing is a teeny-tiny fraction of public donations...which is probably an even tinier fraction of the corporate donations.

Is this just a way to get people to pay attention to the charity and thereby allow McDonalds to reap more good will/publicity for their food outlets?

I can't imagine that the number of can tabs that could be collected from where I work (rough estimate: 200 tabs per week) would be worth the effort of our volunteer to drive them to the collection center! Wouldn't a simple $10 cash donation be worth vastly more and save us all of the grief of messing around with can tabs?

Could someone weigh a soda can tab for me?

SteveBaker (talk) 14:36, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Regarding why "just the tabs and not the entire can?", according to a non-profit fundraising site WP won't allow me to link to:

"the tabs are valued because they are made of pure, high-quality aluminum, unlike the cans they come from, which contain alloys." and

"The aluminum tabs are also smaller and cleaner than collecting cans, easier to handle in large volumes and don’t interfere with other can recycling programs benefiting the charity.". ---Sluzzelin talk 14:44, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I tried weighing five pulls on my two sets of digital kitchen scales. Different runs come up with 0, 1, or 2g for the five (so we're clearly at or below the threshold of sensitivity for them). So "considerably less than 1g" seems to be the best I can say. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 14:59, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm - today's price for billet aluminium is $0.97/lb - so even if recycling is free and nobody makes a profit, 1000 pull tabs are worth at most about $2? SteveBaker (talk) 15:10, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it's like turning in soup can labels, where the ring tab is just a proof of purchase and the Beverage Can Association of Your Country makes the actual donation? --Sean 15:48, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I've been hearing this pull-tabs story for decades. Originally it was about kidney dialysis and it was during the days when the pull-tabs came totally off when you opened the cans. That caused a littering problem, so they redesigned the cans so the tabs stay on, and now you have to work at it to get them off. I'll do a little "snopeing" around and see what I can find. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:22, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

OK, here's the full story from Snopes:[1] Basically the story was always an urban legend, and there is nothing special about the metal in the pull-tabs. However, Ronald McDonald will accept donations of various kinds, although the pull-tabs are worth very little, as noted earlier. The last part of the article (revised just a year ago) talks about the life-imitating-art aspect of this. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:30, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

The Straight Dope : Will saving pull tabs earn free kidney dialysis for needy patients? I've read other articles on this same topic. It's always the same : Yes some people collect them, but it's always a feel-good thing rather than actually contributing anything useful. It's hopeless to tell people this, though. People get super defensive if you try to take away their feel-good measures.

A recent variant I've heard is that someone who knows someone is collecting soda BOTTLE tops for charity. The cynic in me strongly suspects that at some point along that chain someone is entering in the codes from those bottle-caps to Coke Rewards dot com. APL (talk) 20:11, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually, it looks like CokeRewards actually has an option to donate your "rewards" to charity. So collecting a bunch of coke bottle tops and typing in the codes could actually benefit charity far more than collecting aluminum pull tabs. APL (talk) 20:24, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

This I do know from experience: Junk collectors especially like to collect metal, especially from large discarded items like old appliances. They can probably make a lot more from those things than from pull-tabs and bottle caps. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:28, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Quick question on UK city codes

Friends are visiting Scotland, and picked up paygo handyphones for the duration, which have 10-digit phone numbers starting with 758. What was (and is) not clear, is how much of that is city code, and how much is handset number. 758-xxxxxxx is certainly what I'm accustomed to on my side of the pond, but another supposed reference site claimed that most UK city codes are four digits (and start with 14xx). I understand that in most of Europe -- and don't know if this policy includes UK -- that mobile/cell/handyphones are usually assigned to the same citycode so the caller knows he's calling such a phone . . . but that doesn't seem to help me here.

Thanks in advance to any locals who can clarify this for me. DaHorsesMouth (talk) 16:24, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

UK phone numbers are typically eleven digits, starting with a 0. So the number to dial from within the UK would be 0758xxxxxxx (the 7 generally indicates a mobile, and the rest is personal; there's no area codes for mobiles). For calls from outside the country, the initial 0 is replaced with the UK's country calling code +44 (where the + indicates whatever the international dialling prefix is in your country). Algebraist 16:32, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

None of the number on a UK mobile is a city code - it's an operator code. UK city codes mostly start 01 (a few are 02) and are generally 5 digits long - the code for Ipswich, for example, is 01473 and Felixstowe is 01394. However, this is confused when there are villages parented off a nearby town - it was quite common to give them and extra couple of digits and this was still regarded as an area code. Other oddities include the bigger cities - the area code for Birmingham is 0121. Mobiles all have numbers starting 07 and the code is issued to the operator - although once issued, you can take a number to another operator which messes that up, too. --Phil Holmes (talk) 16:54, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually, not all 07 numbers are mobiles - 070 is the Personal Numbering range (popular with West African fraudsters, as they can be rerouted anywhere in the world); mobiles begin 074, 075, 07624 (the only case where you can tell the geographic origin of a mobile - it's Manx Telecom's mobile range so you know it originates from the Isle of Man; all other 076 numbers are pagers), 077, 078, and 079 (except 079112 and 079118 (WiFi numbers). -- Arwel Parry (talk) 23:31, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I understand what's been said so far, but another question is raised. Suppose there are four of these paygo mobiles, all starting with 0758 +7digits or 07583 +6. Can one dial mobile-to-mobile with just the last 7 or last 6, or is the full 0758-xxx-xxxx required even when the phones are fifty feet apart?

DaHorsesMouth (talk) 16:59, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

The full code is require. Mobile phones always need to phone the full code. 82.24.248.137 (talk) 17:10, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

My Android phone doesn't require me to enter the full code, but presumably it just guesses parts of it based on where I am. --Sean 18:28, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm very surprised by that, and would be reluctant to trust it myself. It would be very easy for it (or me) to be confused as to which area code I'm currently standing in. And you'd still have to enter the full code to call a mobile phone. 82.24.248.137 (talk) 19:35, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm also very surprised by that, because area codes overlap near where I live (and, I'm sure, in lots of other places). Are you sure that there is not just some fixed default built into your Android? Dbfirs 06:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I'm sure. When I first got the phone about a year ago it didn't do it, and then through some automated software update it started doing it. Perhaps important is that I live in the USA, in the middle of an area code that covers 2,200 square kilometers, so it's not a bad assumption for the phone to make, and obviously I can disable it on a per-call basis by simply entering some other area code. --Sean 14:52, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

That's some neat learning software! I wonder whether it is running on the phone or on the phone company's server. Perhaps it just learns your usual dialling patterns. You could test this out if you dialled a series of out-of-area numbers, or took it to a different area, but perhaps someone here knows which way it learns. If it learns usual patterns then it might also work in the UK, and if it relies on local transmitters then it might work in cities or the centre of areas, but area codes can be four, five or six digits long in the UK. Dbfirs 15:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I may be mistaken but I wonder if there may be some confusion on how this works. If I'm not mistaken, the US doesn't have mobile specific area codes, instead mobile phones are treated like landlines and your mobile number will have an area code depending on where you register or buy it I guess. See also North American Numbering Plan#Cellular services and the NANP numbering scheme. This means likely no guess work is required. When the OP refers to the same area code, they mean the area code that their handphone number has which is also the area code for where they live. If they move to the other side of the US, they can still dial people from where they lived without the area code but never people in their new location even if they live there for 20 years always dialing people in that area (unless they get a new number). (I believe they may also have to pay more to call people in their new area and other people may pay more to call them so they may want to change number if they plan to stay their long term.) What I gather from [2] [3] is that some mobile phones in the US do do this, and have for a while. (Well whether it's the phone or network or a combination I'm not sure.) I'm not aware this is common outside the North America, in Asia and Europe where you do usually have mobile specific prefixes, I don't think you can usually dial someone with the same mobile prefix without including the prefix, but it's not something I've ever really tried.

As a semi OT aside, in Malaysia handphone numbers do actually have an area and calling someone in a different area from your handphone often means you have to pay more but there's no differing area codes, in fact with MNP I think even the numbers are a bad guide (of course in many countries including Malaysia there's also a similar issue with onnetwork and offnetwork rates). I think this is changing somewhat with reduced emphasis on the areas but there's still often a difference between East and West Malaysia at a minimum AFAIK. I believe China also has a similar thing although I'm not aware if they have an area code.

Nil Einne (talk) 07:51, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Telephone numbers in the United Kingdom goes into much detail about the UK dialplan. It's rather more complex than the North American plan. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 17:51, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

American citizenship

I've read that some hospitals in AMerica require their doctors to be American citizens. Is this true, and if so, how prevalent is this? Isn't this a form of discrimination? 68.76.157.132 (talk) 16:48, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I have never heard of this, and would ask you to cite a source, to make it easier to shoot down this rumor. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:45, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I remember seeing this on TV, it could have been CHiPs or Trapper John, M.D., where a foreign doctor performs emergency surgery on a victim of a car crash, then flees from the crash site because he'd get into legal trouble for practicing medicine without having a recognized M.D. title and work visa, something like that. Maybe this story element made its way into popular culture? -- 78.43.71.155 (talk) 18:13, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

It is certainly true that having foreign credentials is insufficient but that applies to many fields/occupations and to many countries (not just the U.S.) For medical licensing, for instance: "osteopaths who have trained outside the United States are not eligible for medical licensure in the United States. On the other hand, US-trained D.O.s are currently able to practice in 45 countries with full medical rights and in several others with restricted rights." [4]. According to this, 23% of U.S. physicians are international graduates but the must pass the United States Medical Licensing Examinations and get a Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates certificate before getting a residency. Rmhermen (talk) 18:29, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, if you don't legally reside/work in the US (i.e. you're no permanent resident or you don't have the right visa), then you're gonna be in trouble regardless of whether you're a doctor or not. Rimush (talk) 19:00, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

If it really were an emergency and the casualty were likely to deteriorate before anyone licenses to do it could get there (or the casualty could be got to hospital) and you weren't being paid for it, you would probably be ok from a legal standpoint (assuming you don't screw up and make it worse). --Tango (talk) 22:06, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

It's not true in Texas - so long as you have the right credentials and you are a permanent resident alien (ie a green-card holder) you can practice medicine. However, not all foreign qualifications are recognized in the US - and that is the likely origin of what you read. SteveBaker (talk) 19:25, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes it's a form of discrimination. But it's not a bad form of discrimination. I mean not considering a wheelchair-bound man for an acrobat job is discrimination, but there is no problem there.--178.167.133.244 (talk) 22:51, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

There seem to be two quite distinct questions being discussed. The main attention seems to have been on whether foreign credentials are recognized. But the original question was actually about citizenship. Is it possible that some hospitals refuse to employ, or grant privileges, to doctors who have credentials recognized in the US, but are not US citizens? I suppose it's possible; US employment law is mostly based on the at-will doctrine with exceptions for protected classes, and I don't believe foreign citizens are a protected class. But it would seem very strange behavior to me. --Trovatore (talk) 23:33, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree. There would seem to be little point (none, actually) in going through whatever process is required to have your foreign credentials recognised, if you still couldn't practise because you've not acquired US citizenship. If you have the legal right to reside and work in the US, then surely you'd be able to put whatever credentials have been recognised to good use. I also suppose it's possible an individual hospital might have some special rule, but they would be the exception to the norm. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 23:45, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I can imagine a given hospital doing something like this, not as a matter of law but as a matter of indemnity. Depending on how the hospital's insurance is set up, it may be financially unwise to hire non-citizens (e.g. if the hospital is not fully covered for malpractice on doctors who aren't naturalized). But that would be an issue of the legal department and insurance provider, not an issue relating to the hospital itself. --Ludwigs2 17:02, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Many government and public sector jobs in the USA require American citizenship. For example jobs at the National Hurricane Center require it. ~AH1^(TCU) 23:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

That may be true, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I can see a rational basis for the requirement in jobs directly touching national security; in theory a citizen is thought to "owe allegiance" to the US, whereas a foreign national is not. But for tracking hurricanes? What are they afraid of, that some al Qaeda operative will misstate a wind speed so that coastal residents will be caught with their guard down? I can't see that as a very likely or effective form of attack against the US. --Trovatore (talk) 07:31, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Collins Safety Razors

I have, found in my fathers things, a certificate for COLLINS SAFETY RAZORS stock(1921). I can't find anything on the company and I am trying to see what the shares are worth. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Larry Mcleod (talk • contribs) 17:12, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

A quick google on "Collins Safety Razor" found that it was patented by Bertrand Collins and made by the Collins Rotary Safety Razor Company of Chicago. MilborneOne (talk) 18:03, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Presumably he needs to know what happened to the Collins Safety Razors company, not the razors themselves. APL (talk) 22:24, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think I made this point on a similar previous question - does the USA not have something similar to the UK Companies House? Exxolon (talk) 01:15, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Corporate registrations in the U.S. are usually handled, not nationally (although there are nationally-chartered corporations) but by the Secretary of State's office in the state where the company registers. Presumably, a good place to start would be the Illinois Secretary of State. There are specialized business publications that list company histories; a good business or reference librarian would be the person to ask.—— Shakescene (talk) 09:02, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

¶ This Dutch-hosted site suggests the company may later have had a Pennsylvania location, so that commonwealth's Secretary of State might be worth checking.

The razors were manufactured in the Collins factories located at West Lake Street, Chicago (IL, USA). Some sources state that later on the company had another address: Collins Safety Razors at Franklin (PA, USA).

—— Shakescene (talk) 09:13, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Clock work orange

ever since reading the book I have wanted a cut throat razor, is it possible to buy these, and is there anything speacial I need to know about shaving with one. Will it give a closer shave that normal disposables? how does one sharpen it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.89.16.154 (talk) 18:31, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an article about the Straight razor. According to that article, they are sharpened on a leather strop, and require considerable practice and skill to use without hurting yourself. Some people say that they give a more satisfactory shave to a skilled user because the shaver has more control over the blade. I found some instructions on how to shave with a straight razor by googling "how to use a straight razor." I found several for sale on Amazon.com for fairly reasonable prices. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 18:44, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Even barbers mess up with those sometimes. Rimush (talk) 19:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

The actual title of the book by Anthony Burgess is A Clockwork Orange. The OP will have read these words of the belligerent idiot named Dim.: Great bolshy yarblockos to you. I'll meet you with chain or nozh or britva anytime, not having you aiming tolchocks at me reasonless. Amongst Dim's neologisms is britva which is Russian for razor, to be used as a weapon in a fight with Alex. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:27, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

A barber who has shaved people with them for decades told me that they are not as sharp as safety razors or cheap disposable razors, and do not shave you any closer. Edison (talk) 19:31, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeh, but if the OP's looking to cut somebody's throat, he'll have a tough time doing it with Gillette Trac II or whatever. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I think he's looking for the tough, macho sensation that comes with shaving with a blade that one could cut somebody's throat with. Plus, you'd get to sing that one song from Sweeney Todd every morning while you shaved. "These are my friends..." That in itself would make it worth learning how to shave with a straight razor. (Secondary question: Why did Sweeney Todd have so many razors? Wouldn't one be enough?) -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 02:50, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

There's also Mr Micawber's observation, "Copperfield, you are a true friend; but when the worst comes to the worst, no man is without a friend who is possessed of shaving materials." http://dickens.thefreelibrary.com/David-Copperfield/1-17 —— Shakescene (talk) 09:27, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Our open razor article, footnote 18, states that an open razor should be rested for 1 to 2 days after cleaning. If you clean the razor after each customer, which you should, then you need a lot of razors. CS Miller (talk) 08:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Wow! That makes perfect sense... isn't amazing, the things you learn at the Reference Desk? Things you didn't even realize you needed to know... -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 13:27, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I lack a citation but while waiting to get a shave once at the barber's, I read a coffee table book about the history of barbering that echoed Edison's statement above: Modern disposable razors are sharper and give a closer shave than a straight razor. Come to think of it, that barber should rethink his choice of coffee table books. Comet Tuttle (talk) 15:21, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I want to write a coffee table book about coffee tables and was wondering if anyone had this idea before. Rimush (talk) 18:10, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Kramer has. ---Sluzzelin talk 18:15, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Wow, you have coffee table books at your barber, Comet Tuttle? I get old and well-thumbed women's magazines; they obviously have the same supplier as my doctor, my dentist and my tax accountant.  :) -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 23:27, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Back to the point - my barber uses an open razor with a disposable blade - this gets around issue raised by Csmiller above. However, it's more likely a requirement so that we don't all get HIV. Alansplodge (talk) 23:10, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

pond problems

i have a problem with the water in my pond the water has foam on the top of the water i have tested the water and it is ok the pond is feed bya man made water fall i have three big filters can you help me with the couse and the cure —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.86.9.58 (talk) 22:20, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

What is the source of the water? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

"I have a problem with the water in my pond. The water has foam on the top of the water. I have tested the water and it is OK. The pond is fed by a man-made waterfall. I have three big filters. Can you help me with the cause and the cure?" 92.24.190.46 (talk) 10:38, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

You may have misunderstood Bugs's question (inserted above your reply by me to make things comprehensible). The question is what is the source of the water - is it naturally accumulated water (rain water, ground water) or is it tap water? It may also help to mention where in the world you are (I'm assuming the UK). Matt Deres (talk) 12:47, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

That's what I'm asking, yes. "A man-made waterfall" is not the "source" of the water, it's merely part of the aperatus (sp?). It could be algae, it could be detergent, who knows? And what kind of "testing" was done on the water? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:08, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I think you've both missed something. 92.24 isn't the OP restating his question - he's a grammar fiend correcting the OP's sentence. Vimescarrot (talk) 20:44, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Calling him a grammar fiend in relation to this particular question is harsh and unusual punishment. It contained six (6) declarative sentences plus a question, making seven (7) sentences in total, yet it remained entirely punctuation-free, so it needed some sort of analysis to work out what was being asked of us. Nitpicking is one thing, but mutual responsibility has to apply as well. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 23:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Negative connotations were not intended. If they had been, I'd have used the phrase "grammar Nazi". I didn't know how else to describe someone who corrects another's grammar without being asked to. Vimescarrot (talk) 23:33, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

"All-round nice guy/gal"? "Good Samaritan"? -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 23:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Speaking as an erstwhile professional editor/proofreader, and thus someone generally rather passionate about conformation to writing rules, I had absolutely no problem whatever in understanding perfectly the OP's question in its original form, which contained only a couple of minor typo-type mis-spellings and an omitted space, and was grammatically correct throughout. Lack of Upper/lower case distinctions and punctuation served the Romans perfectly well, and earlier writing systems managed without vowels, word divisions and even sentence divisions. If the question had related to language or writing, and had appeared on the Humanities desk, I could have seen a case for correction, but I for one think it was misplaced here. I don't want to pick a fight with you or anyone else, Jack (and 92.24), but I think we should keep in mind the primary purpose of the Desk, which is to answer Querants' questions. Leaping all over their writing style risks humiliating and alienating them; they, unlike ourselves as self-appointed responders, have no implicit commitment to maintaining the highest standards. </rant> and back to the actual question, hopefully. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 10:36, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

If the OP is not a native speaker of english, then the corrected text helps them learn english. If the OP is a native speaker of english then the help is also needed, unless perhaps they wrote the text on a mobile phone. 92.28.251.219 (talk) 13:37, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Point taken, 87.81.230.195, but I'd prefer it if we didn't use the practices of the Romans as any sort of justification when discussing current, 21st century, non-Roman writing. Haruspicy (divination by animals' entrails) was also a Roman practice, but I'm hoping you wouldn't suggest we do that. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 22:39, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question, but since the OP only made the one entry, I doubt we'll hear from him again. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:49, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

As Bugs and Matt have suggested, the foam's immediate cause is a lessening of the water's surface tension (the same mechanism by which detergents cause foam in baths and washing-up water). That reduction will be due to trace amounts of chemicals that could be man-made pollution, or could be due to algae or other water organisms - one can sometimes see similar effects from both causes at weirs on rivers or at the shoreline.

If your pond and waterfall are fed from an external source, such as a stream or your domestic water supply, you might have to consider filtering and treating the the water before it feeds into the pond. This need not be expensive or elaborate, and a shop dealing in indoor aquaria or outdoor pond equipment (such as many garden centres) should be able to advise you. (Allow for the fact that they'll hope to sell you some kit, which may slant their advice.) If your pond is a largely closed system, and your waterfall is merely recycling the contents, you may still need to treat the water, and may possibly benefit from emptying the pond (carefully preserving its living contents in appropriate containers with clean water at the right temperature), identifying and removing any unwanted plants/algae that may be contributing to the problem, cleaning the pond containment survaces with an appropriate non-toxic cleaner, and then restocking with the existing and perhaps some additional new species (the latter may help the pond's overall ecological balance). Our articles Pond, Pond aeration and Water garden, and the further links within them, may contain or lead you to further useful information. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 11:00, 14 August 2010 (UTC)