Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 September 1

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September 1

LIGHTING

WHY DOES 1 FLUORESCENT TUBE STAY LIT ON A 5 TUBE LIGHT FIXTURE AFTER YOU TURN OF THE SWITCH? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.100.152.42 (talk) 00:56, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

The energy from electrons in the mains power are absorbed by atoms of mercury gas (which is mixed with a noble gas like argon). The mercury atom then gives out that energy as light. The light is absorbed and re-radiated by chemicals in the bulb's coating (fluorescence) to change it from UV light to visible light. All these steps take a little time to complete, and both electrons an light can be bounced around (absorbed and re-radiated by atoms) between atoms in the tube before reaching their destination. See also fluorescent lamp#Mechanism of light production. --h2g2bob (talk) 02:17, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

so why does only 1 tube stay lit in the 2 tube light fixture? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.131.128.182 (talk) 05:30, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

When you say "lit", do you mean that it has an afterglow, or that it actually stays on? If the former, then there's probably some difference in the design or age of the tubes. If the latter, then presumably it's not wired to that switch. FiggyBee 07:39, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Maybe there is a separated switch for the other tube?87.102.87.15 11:16, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

If this is at your place of work then probably one of the two tubes is a security light that's there so that security staff can do their rounds - or because it's on the route of a fire exit or something. It's certainly not the case that all fluorescent lights do this. We have a two tube fixture in our laundry room and both tubes go on and off at the same time. 66.137.234.217 14:31, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Can you please help me?

Hello, I am looking for a certain thing. I have searched very hard for it yet I cannot manage to find the right answer for my question! I have many American Bicentennial Coins that are both gold and silver. But what i find most intresting about them is that they are still in their envelopes from the year of 1973! I couldn't believe it myself. But what i am looking for is if they are really worth anything? I also have the stamps of the Americian Revolution Era and i also have the Bicentennial Logo. I would really appreciate it if you guys will take the time and help me with what I am looking for! Thank you so much for your time! I really appreciate it! 01:54, 1 September 2007 (UTC)141.149.244.96Again Thank You,

Google turned up a "Bicentennial Coin & First Day Cover July 4, 1973" on ebay for $12.99, which sounds like what you're describing, so I don't think you're going to make your fortune with it. It's a nice souvenir though! :) FiggyBee 02:11, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

(after edit conflict)There is an article here [1] that talks about the American Bicentenial Coins. It appears they were produced from 1973 to 1986, and that there were nearly 4 million of them sold. Coins are worth their face value for certain; I received the impression that there isn't yet a large premium offered, even for "brilliant, uncirculated" sets. I am hoping we have a numismatist around to provide more professional views. Bielle 02:21, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

The trouble with these special commemerative coins is that everyone who buys them thinks to themselves "I'll keep this because it'll be valuable one day." A consequence of which is that most of the coins made are still being kept in perfect condition - so they have no rareity value. The coins that wind up being the most valuable are the solid gold ones (because the metal itself is worth a lot) and mint-condition coins that were in common usage - but nobody bothered to keep - or coins that are rare simply because not many were made - but which were not considered special at the time. 66.137.234.217 14:26, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

POLITICAL SCIENCE

Sir,

I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IFANY PRESIDENT OFINDIA PRESENT OR PAST GIVEN AMNESTY I.E. PARDON TO A CONVICT SENTENCED TO DEATH I.E. TO BE HANGED TILL DEATH? IF SO I WANT HIS NAME, YEAR AND CRIME?

REGARDS SHAILESH —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.161.85.20 (talk) 04:28, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Indian President K.R. Narayanan commuted the death sentence given to a Ms. S. Nalini, one of four persons convicted of the assassination of Rajiv Gandhi.[2] The crime took place in 1991; clemency was granted in April 2001.[3] The current former President of India, A P J Abdul Kalam, appears to be opposed to the death penalty and favours clemency, [4] although he did not stop the 2004 execution of Dhananjoy Chatterjee. No one has been executed since this time, and clemency petitions seem to be piling up on Kamal's desk. [5] - Eron ^Talk 12:18, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Err, the current President of India, for over a month now, is Pratibha Patil. I don't know what her views on the subject are. -- Arwel (talk) 08:20, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

disposable income

with a job as an engineer fresh out of college, and similar spending habits, would I have more or less purchasing power now as compared to 50 years ago? By what approx. what percent? basically, was a degree worth more back then or now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.131.128.182 (talk) 06:00, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

It's hard to say, because there's so many variables. Adjusting for inflation only, skilled workers earn about twice as much as they did 50 years ago; but on the other hand, the kinds of goods you can spend disposable income on today were undreamt of 50 years ago, so it's almost impossible to compare "purchasing power" across that length of time. FiggyBee 07:31, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

free postcards

At an event I was given a postcard which instead of a stamp says that postage is paid b/c it is a nonprofit org. Where can i get more of these postage-paid postcards? Are there international ones too? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.131.128.182 (talk) 06:02, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

These are available across the world. They are used to encourage responses to some form of promotion/research, etc. They are not simply given away! And, yes, international ones are in use.86.197.149.68 10:17, 1 September 2007 (UTC)DT

In the U.S., the organization that is distributing the cards must obtain a permit from the post office. That organization must pay something for the postage, but it is at a reduced rate. The group must show documentation that it is truly a nonprofit organization. — Michael J 22:39, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

FHA + Bush

I read that Bush's bailout plan uses some 22 billion dollars stored up from premium insurance payments from borrowers. If borrowers were already paying insurance to the gov'ment, (without getting too detailed) how is this plan changing anything? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.131.128.182 (talk) 06:05, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Bailout of what? Iraq? Social Security? The federal deficit? The current account deficit? His sinking administration? Plasticup ^T/C 18:18, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

My uneducated guess is that "FHA" refers to the US Federal Housing Administration. Here is a link to a news article on the recent $22 billion announcement, which confirms this. I'm afraid I'm unable to offer an answer to the initial question, however. Thylacoleo 00:46, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Asimov's books

how many words per minute did Asimov write in the adult waking hours of his lifetime?

Has anyone ever tried to show that he could not be accountable for all of his books assuming he had to eat, sleep and socialize in his day-to-day life? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.131.128.182 (talk) 06:08, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

He wrote 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, according to [6] FiggyBee 07:13, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

And the same article says that was 2,000 to 4,000 words per day. So that's about 3 to 7 words per minute. Figuring 70,000 words for a book (as he sometimes did), it'd be 17 to 35 days to write one book, or 10-20 books per year... which is about right. His first book was published in 1950 and if he had maintained that pace from then until 1990 it would be 400 to 800 books. His final total is something over 500, but only about 380 of these are books of his own writing; the rest are collections of other people's stories where his actual writing was only the introductions. --Anonymous, 08:48 UTC, September 1, 2007.

By chance I just came across another reference on this. In 1973 Publisher's Weekly ran a short interview of Asimov conducted by Alfred Bester, which is reproduced in a 2000 collection of Bester's work called Redemolished. Excerpt (from page 520 in the ibooks paperback edition):

The living room is his workshop; jammed with shelves of reference texts, files and piles of scientific journals. He works from nine to five, seven days a week without a break.

"No, I'm lying. Sometimes I goof off on part of Sunday."

"Do you think at the typewriter, Ike?"

"Yes. I type at professional speed. Ninety words a minute."

"Great, but do you think at ninety words a minute?"

"Yes, I do. The two work together neatly."

So this source indicates a shorter workweek (at most 56 hours if the description is taken literally). I would guess that the much faster writing speed would be because Bester's interview is only talking about the actual act of putting words on paper and not any planning and first drafts. --Anonymous, 23:42 UTC, September 6, 2007.

"The worlds hardest riddle"

What is the answer to this "riddle" that pops up on myspace bulletins from time to time?

I turn polar bears white
And I will make you cry.
I make guys have to pee
And girls comb their hair.
I make celebrities look stupid
And normal people look like celebrities.
I turn pancakes brown
And make your champagne bubble.
If you squeeze me, I'll pop.
If you look at me, you'll pop.
Can you guess the riddle?

It appears alongside the dubious claim that "97% of Harvard graduates can not figure this riddle out, But 84% of kindergarten students were able to figure this out, In 6 minutes or less." and that reposting it will send the answer to your inbox (it doesn't). Is there an actual answer to this riddle? --124.254.77.148 13:10, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

The answer is "no". --lucid 13:15, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Looks like a confusion of the word "riddle" with 'waste of time' - the answer is supposed to be enlightening. Doh!87.102.87.15 13:50, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

The answer is humidity. Recury 14:25, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

If you look at humidity, you'll pop? Humidity turns polar bears white? Trust me, the answer is "no". Think about it-- a bunch of qualities that absolutely nothing linking them, and at the end, the line "Can you guess the riddle?". The answer is "no", you cannot, there is no answer. Harvard graduates would think the riddle through so thoroughly that arriving at the obvious answer is unpossible, kindergarten students would just answer "hm... nope!" --lucid 14:32, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah...Interesting observation -

• "Can you guess the riddle?"
• "No"

That must be the answer--Pheonix15 20:28, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

If you google it you'll find dozens of potential answers, including one which apparently is derived from a "poem" (which has a distinctly amateurish feel about it). Frankly I don't think it is the sort of thing worth wasting one's time worrying about. --24.147.86.187 21:49, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Agree - claiming to be the "WORLDS HARDEST RIDDLE" may be a pointer to eventual disapointment..83.100.249.228 22:09, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't know what's wrong with you guys, but I can guess the riddle as much as I want. I say the answer is yes. Capuchin 07:11, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I still say it's humidity. Recury 16:22, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

How does looking at humidity make you pop? The answer should either be "no" or some omnipotent being. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 21:13, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

The Answer is Time

[7]poem mentioned earlier

Booked4lunch 17:58, 6 September 2007 (UTC) a public librarian

The correct answer is "no" read the last line of the riddle. Thats why the kids always get it right, but educated people look for hidden meaning — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.83.102.178 (talk) 12:15, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Piano and Drum Muscial Notation

What type of musical notation would you be required to learn in order to play both piano or percussion? --Writer Cartoonist 13:25, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

You don't need to learn any notation at all in order to play them. I'm sure there are both great pianists and great percussionists who are musically illiterate. If you want to play written music, however, then obviously you have to learn the notation it's written in (usually modern musical symbols). Piano and percussion use practically the same notation. The only difference is that if you play an atonal percussion instrument, you don't have to worry about clefs and key signatures. —Keenan Pepper 17:24, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I believe that in percussion notation, the position of the notes on the lines does not represent pitch, as it usually does, but different instruments. Ah, we've got an article: Percussion notation. DirkvdM 19:02, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

English Property Law: Defining a boundary

Two houses are built on separate plots, with 0.5-1.7 metres between them, brick wall to brick wall. One has a soffit at roof level and also rain water gutters, reaching out about 9 inches outwards from the brick wall.

Both buildings are at least 40 years old in their current position.

Is the boundary deemed to be a vertical from the gutter, the soffit or the wall itself?

The old boundary will need to be retraced, but if it cuts through the house with the soffit and gutter, so that the boundary has been transgressed, maybe 40 years earlier, what is the legal position and how would the boundary now be defined? —Preceding unsigned comment added by BobbieNJ (talk • contribs) 17:35, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

BobbieNJ 15:08, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I'd say none of the above. The location of the house doesn't determine the property line. Perhaps you are going on the assumption that they've each built their houses as close to the property line as legally possible, but that's not necessarily the case. Therefore, you can't figure out the property line from the positions of the houses alone, you need to look up the property deeds and maybe get a surveyor to come mark the line. StuRat 16:42, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

In the UK, de-facto land boundaries become legal land boundaries provided nobody complains within the first few years (not sure how many, but it's less than 40). For example, if you build a fence between your properties, then after a time that becomes the legal boundary. Boundary transgressions from 40 years ago would probably not be able to be put right.

I would expect that the wall would be the boundary, but that one side has given implicit permission for the other's house's eaves to extend into their property. That said, you should consult a lawyer if you want proper advice. Your local council or possibly the Citizens Advice Bureau may also be able to help. --h2g2bob (talk) 02:59, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

This is not always the case. The legal concept is adverse possession, and while occupation of land may eventually give legal title, it does not always do so, eg. if the land is already registered with the Land Registry. It's one of those "Consult a Lawyer" situations. DuncanHill 09:55, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

You don't have unowned land between two properties. Sometimes there may be arrangements for the occupants one house to be able to use the other house's land (if there was a shared driveway access to the street, for instance), but usually the dividing line would be midway between the properties (if they were built at the same time), so guttering extending out 9" into a 0.5 metre gap between the houses would be well within the property line. You would have to refer to the properties' title deeds to positively ascertain the situation. If there's a fence between two properties, then the fence usually marks the boundary with ownership of the fence belonging to the side where the supporting posts are. Normal Wikipedia disclaimer about legal advice applies - go and see a solicitor to definitively sort things out. -- Arwel (talk) 08:36, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't usually make any difference what the title deeds say - there are many instances of people spending their lives, retirement, income, pension. re-mortgage funds, and loans fighting in the country's highest land courts trying to prove that the imaginary line on the ground is theirs. There are also many instances of old men serving life in prison for murdering their neighbour for transgressing that said imaginary line. Sad I am afraid, but true. I should know, I have just thankfully "lost" such a set of territorial octogenarian neighbours who finally gave up their struggle to establish ownership of the boundary fence between us. When they left, I offered it to them as a keepsake but they refused, after fighting for it all these years. Sad, but true. 81.145.241.60 09:15, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Humans are terratorial animals - we shouldn't be surprised that this kind of thing happens. When we were building our present house, we had the land properly surveyed to locate the official steel pins that are hammered deep into the ground to serve as corner markers in these parts. Once they were found, the surveyor put little pink flags in the ground so that the builder would know not to transgress the neighbours property. Well, I have a set of photos that the builder took of my neighbour subsequently digging up said corner pin and moving it about five feet in his favor. This is in several acres of dense woodland - where five feet really isn't a huge deal either way. Moving corner markers is a serious crime in Texas and we had to use the photos to convince him that he had to pay $500 to have the land re-resurveyed and the corner pin officially repositioned (back where it originally was of course!). Totally ridiculous behavior - but like I said - we're terratorial animals and nobody should be surprised at it. SteveBaker 18:57, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Returning to your question, the answer depends on (1) what the property deeds and/or the registered title (if there is one) show, (2) who has (or has had) possession of the land and for how long and (3) several other factors. Compulsory registration of land sold in the UK began only in the 1980s, and even when the title to land has been registered, HM Land Registry can't be expected to show boundaries to within a foot or two. After twelve years, someone can get adverse possession of someone else's land, even if it's registered, but the tests for adverse possession are complicated and advice is needed. Also, there may be other rights (public or private) over this gap between the two houses - for instance, public rights of way may have been established by twenty years' use 'as of right', and private rights of way (or other wayleaves) may have been granted by the owner of the land to adjoining property owners, public utilities, etc. Xn4 03:25, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Yellow beans... what are they??

I am in the process of trying to create one of my grandmothers recipes (a vietnamese crepe... banh xeo). Its written in french where she calls for les 'haricots jaune.' I thought it would be simple to find them, but when I asked for 'dried yellow beans' at my local asian grocer, they looked at me like i was crazy and tried to sell me soy beans. The closest thing I could find were yellow Mung Beans.... Are they the same?

Thanks, --Cacofonie 17:39, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Do you know what they look like - in french 'haricot jaune' appear to be yellow normal 'beans' eg http://www.radio-canada.ca/actualite/v2/lepicerie/niveau2_3841.shtml where as a search for 'banh xeo' turns up this http://www.vietworldkitchen.com/bookshelf/articles/banh_xeo_SJM.htm containing mung beans and sprouted mung beans.. though I imagine adding 'french yellow beans' wouldn't spoil it.?

Seeing as it's a vietnamese reciped mung beans and bean sprouts must be the answer..83.100.249.228 20:08, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

The literal translation of "yellow beans" to Chinese is soy beans, whereas mung beans is actually called "green beans" in Chinese, so their confusion is not unfounded. It's probably mung beans since soy beans aren't exactly starchy at all. --antilived^{T | C | G} 22:52, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I've had bánh xèo many times, and it has always had mung bean sprouts, and never any kind of green beans. --Sean 14:41, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

retail tax

will retail stores not charge sales tax if I show them that I live out of state? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.147.39.60 (talk) 18:49, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

It must be shipped out of state to a state where they do not do business, but you are still responsible for getting the tax owed to the tax authorities. --Nricardo 21:45, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Sometimes unscrupulous stores like all those Manhattan camera/electronic stores will let you walk out with the item without paying tax, and ship an empty box to your out of state address to cover their butts paperworkwise, but that would be WRONG, hint hint. Gzuckier 16:20, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

In Washington state I show my Oregon ID and do not pay sales tax, with the exception of prepared food. Perhaps it varies from state to state. Assuming you mean the US. 161.222.160.8 21:28, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

barnes and noble

approx. what is the starting rate for an unskilled floor worker at Barnes and Noble or Borders?

This will depend on location, I suspect. Where are you? Algebraist 22:35, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

You might be better off asking Barnes and Noble or Borders. Plasticup ^T/C 18:23, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Use

I am attempting to find the origin of the word, "use." Example: Can I use your cellphone? I have viewed numerous resources, but I cannot find the origin. Is it an English word? For most of Wikipedias definitions, the origin is included in definition. Example: The word stems from a Greek Philosopher. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.246.165.248 (talk) 20:57, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Etymology: Middle English us, from Anglo-French, from Latin usus, from uti to use --Nricardo 21:42, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

This would be an excellent question for the Language Ref Desk. StuRat 02:38, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

(have you not noticed yet that 90% of the questions posted here can fit under one the other reference desks?) Jon513 09:34, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Many questions can have more than one home, but in this case Stu's quite right - it's solely an etymological question and belongs on the Language desk. -- JackofOz 01:44, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Past Authenticity of Website

...And no, I don't think this would be appropriate in the Computing desk. While I normally would not even consider this, I was wondering if anyone would comment on the validity of a free offer / referral site. [8] . Comments from wither personal experience and general observation/opinion are welcome. The site's parent organization can be found at [9] . While many of these types of offers are suspicious, this seems more valid, but I still do not trust it by the information provided solely by the company. While the investment would be minimal, ($7 USD, a few minutes of my time, and a few referrals), I still would like an opinion before engaging in any action. Thanks, Freedomlinux 23:22, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't. If it looks too good to be true, it certainly is, when it comes to free computers offered on the internet. Expect trouble in one form or another. --24.147.86.187 01:27, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I have looked into it again, and while tempting, I have found a suitable unit from a reputable established source. The risk from this site seems too great. Freedomlinux 01:52, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

This looks suspiciously like a pyramid scheme to me. --h2g2bob (talk) 02:38, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

It's not a pyramid scheme as such; it's mostly an exercise in collating mailing lists for junk mail. Just be aware that these sites rarely pay out (and, per their terms of service, are under no legal obligation to ever pay out, even if you manage to fulfil the conditions). FiggyBee 07:47, 3 September 2007 (UTC)