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Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2022 April 30

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April 30 edit

Ottoman place names edit

Is there a place online where I could find the names of cities of the Ottoman Empire, as many as possible, in the Ottoman Turkish script? To be clear I mean the Arab-looking script. I'm not searching for a map but for a site from where I can copy the names. Thank you. --79.18.53.172 (talk) 11:43, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t know of a collected list, but you can find the Ottoman Turkish spelling for many place names on Wiktionary. For example, wikt:Ankara gives آنقره, wikt:Izmir gives ازمیر, and wikt:Istanbul gives استانبول. —Amble (talk) 17:19, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Finding the Ottoman Turkish name of the most famous places is usually not a problem, with some exceptions. Some even in their Wikipedia articles. --79.18.53.172 (talk) 18:54, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You can find a list on Wiktionary in Category:ota:Cities in Turkey. However, it is far from complete, containing neither قسطنطينيه (Kostantiniyye) nor استانبول (İstanbul).  --Lambiam 19:22, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There are maps here with the names of cities and provinces of the Ottoman Empire in the Arabic script. Omidinist (talk) 01:42, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Word for "tea" edit

Is there any language whose word tea "tea" cannot be traced back to Chinese? The Polish word herbata and Lithuanian word arbata resemble neither the word te nor the word cha, but they are actually herba thea and can be eventually traced to te. Are there any languages that created neologism when tea was first brought to the country where the language is spoken? --40bus (talk) 17:40, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like Burmish languages generally have created compound neologisms. From a quick search on Wiktionary. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 17:49, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
According to Wiktionary, the part of the Burmese term that bears the meaning of "tea" ultimately derives from that same source.
So, the list at Etymology of tea#Others as well as this map are of questionable credibility, since they both cite Burmese as not falling into either major category.
In fact the other languages marked thus in the map include Polish and Lithuanian, as well as more than 30 others, which may have to be checked. One of them that immediately strikes me is Hawaiian: the relation of kī to the English term is pretty obvious considering the characteristic allophony of /t/ and /k/ in that language.
Anyways, Wiktionary provides a list of translations. --Theurgist (talk) 19:01, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Or maybe the logic is that Burmese can be considered a third branch, separate from the two main ones, even though they all stem from the same source. But even then Burmese doesn't satisfy the OP's condition. --Theurgist (talk) 20:04, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • According to the Online Cree Dictionary, "tea" in Standard Cree is "maskihkiwapoy", meaning "medicine water". (In Northern French Cree it's "lite", which might be pronounced like "le thé".) I wouldn’t be surprised if other North American languages have their own names for tea. 24.76.103.169 (talk) 23:14, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, the Wiktionary list of translations gives several of them. The Romani word drab stands out on that list, too, and similarly means "medicine". I wonder what Banjara people call it?  Card Zero  (talk) 01:28, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    But is that word in Cree actually used for tea made from Camellia sinensis (the tea plant) or something else? Even now, the word "tea" is commonly used for things that aren't tea at all, but herbal infusions, such as peppermint tea, chamomile tea, ginger tea, rooibos tea, and so on. Wolfart (1973) lists it as from -āpoy- 'broth, soup', and tea as maskihkīwāpoy: 'tea (literally: herb-broth)'.[1] Mathglot (talk) • contribs) 01:24, 1 May 2022 (UTC)-*[reply]
    Without wishing to make any particular argument, I'm going to throw the word Tisane into the mix. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.208.88.97 (talk) 20:04, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Seems to be from an Ancient Greek word related to barley. [1] 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 20:56, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    "commonly used for things that aren't tea at all, but herbal infusions, such as peppermint tea, chamomile tea, ginger tea, rooibos tea" Seems like what you have here is a split in meaning 1) "tea" meaning the plant Camellia sinensis and 2) "tea" meaning herbal infusions, including (but not limited to) those of C. sinensis. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 14:45, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

refs edit

  1. ^ Wolfart, H. Christoph. "Plains Cree: A Grammatical Study." Transactions of the American Philosophical Society, vol. 63, no. 5, 1973, p. 69, § 6.412 https://doi.org/10.2307/1006246.

Natural Bushcraft Austria edit

Alonewolverine1984 (then a video newbie, but now a youtube celebrity under the name survivallilly) wrote in 2011[2]:

Hi! I am Lilly from Natural Bushcraft Austria aka alonewolverine1984. I am the one who uploaded this video. I was really flattered that so many bushcrafters watched this video and subscribed to my channel. :4: that's awesome

Is Natural Bushcraft Austria some kind of organization? What would be the likely German form of this name? The forum post I linked is the main search hit for the phrase in English. I didn't have any luck with my own attempted German translations, but I'm not good at that. Thanks. 2601:648:8202:350:0:0:0:4671 (talk) 21:37, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A plausible translation is Naturbushcraft Österreichs. The webpages I found in German about bushcraft in Austria (like this one) did not mention any organizational structure.  --Lambiam 07:30, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A clue might be in his username - "alonewolverine" doesn't sound a very clubbable sort of chap. Alansplodge (talk) 08:51, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's unfortunately (but amusingly) open to interpretation. Bazza (talk) 10:28, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Lilly appears to be a woman, but I guess she still could be a weekend clubber... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 12:24, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks all. Lilly may have used the name alonewolverine1984 because she is into solo camping. She has said in her videos that she is quite social, likes to hang out with friends, etc. Her vids are fun to watch, not too much survivalism lunacy, more about a back to nature camping and self-sufficiency experience. The url from that forum thread doesn't work any more, but the video it refers to is still on her channel, the oldest one there, so you have to sort by new and then scroll all the way to the end to reach it. 2601:648:8202:350:0:0:0:4671 (talk) 15:14, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
She wouldn't have been the first German speaker to think English wolverine means "she-wolf", like here: Ich hab früher immer gedacht, „Wolverine“ heißt „die Wölfin“ – analog zu „Heroine“ für „Heldin“.[3]  --Lambiam 16:02, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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