Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2018 October 5
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October 5
editThe case
editWe often say that something is "the case", meaning it is true; or that it is "not the case", meaning the opposite.
Just what is this "case" we so commonly invoke? -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 00:06, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
- EO's discussion of this term may help.[1] ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:14, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, thank you. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 18:16, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
So the epiglottalized clicks are really just click + kxʼ? Does that mean /tʜ/ is really [tkxʼ]? déhanchements (talk) 23:11, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
- No, /tʜ/ is not a click at all. /tʜ/ is similar to an aspirated /t/, as in English "tea", but instead of the /t/ being followed by a breathy /h/, this one is followed by a voiceless epiglottal trill (the sound of Arabic ح). There is an audio file of this "ʜ" at voiceless epiglottal trill.
- However, Juǀ'hoan also has a click consonant that is followed by "ʜ", written phonetically as /ǃʜ/. You can hear this ǃ click at retroflex click. So, /ǃʜ/ is the retroflex click followed by a voiceless epiglottal trill (Arabic ح).
- Also, /kxʼ/ is not a click, it is a velar ejective (k followed by x followed by a glottal stop). Jul'hoan does have a click ejective, written as /ǃˀ/. It's the same retroflex click as I described above, followed by a glottal stop. —Stephen (talk) 14:01, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
- I know this, I wasn't saying that /kxʼ/ or /tʜ/ are clicks. I read on the article the following, The 'epiglottalized' clicks are heterorganic affricates, and equivalent to linguo-glottalic consonants transcribed [ǃ͡kxʼ] and [ᶢǃ͡kxʼ], etc., in other languages (Miller 2011). So I thought, that must mean /ǂʜ/ is really /ǂkxʼ/, and the 'epiglottalized' stop /tʜ/ is really /tkxʼ/. I hadn't read The consonants listed as epiglottalized, following Miller-Ockhuizen (2003), have uvular frication and glottalization; they are similar to consonants in Nǀu described as uvular ejective by Miller et al. (2009).. Apparently /ǂʜ/ really is epiglottalized jus like you say, but Wikipedia be trippin balls and can't decide which is right. déhanchements (talk) 02:56, 9 October 2018 (UTC)