Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 March 6

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

March 6

What is fucken going on?

Odd question, but I daresay an important one for our troubled times.

If I had to transcribe the speech of someone who was swearing, it might include things like I hate that fuckin' asshole. Yet, when people write the word online, as often as not it's spelt as fucken, and that spelling seems to have become entrenched in the pop culture world up to a point - see [1].

Do people genuinely not know that it's an abbreviation for fucking, or is it something else now? I can understand (if never forgive) that certain strata of people don't use apostrophes much anymore, but I'd still expect to see them writing fuckin, not fucken. Do they think it's a verb, like strengthen, liken, etc. (that's assuming they have the faintest idea of what a verb is ...)?

What is fucken going on here? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 02:39, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Of all the abuses of the written word wrought upon humanity through online communication, this little bugbear is the first on your list? --Jayron32 02:52, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

To be fair, we don't know whom else has been asked to answer for the mistakes of humanity... (Also, he's not a n00b) Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:06, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Jayron, the questions I happen to ask here do not represent the matters of monumental moment with which I wrestle during my frequent dark nights of the soul. Well, not necessarily.  :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 04:13, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

JackofOz My guess is laziness or idiocy is likely to blame. When I was a kid, the less linguistically adept children would say "fuckin' egg" instead of "fuckin' A". The youths today are more apt to write "I'm homeeeeeee", (which makes absolutely zero sense to me, as the E is silent) instead of "I'm hooooooome!" My guess is that they didn't grow up reading comics, or that the former is some kind of deliberate joke that's become a meme. I doubt even the Wikipedia Reference Desk have the proper tools to account for what the kids are doing today. (And yet I eagerly await proof to the contrary!) My hypothesis is that kids are spending less time ensconced in the written word, or at least the grammatically correct written word, so they're not picking up on the nuances of language, and/or not making the intellectual connection between the verbal language and the written language and/or maybe they don't (yet) have the tools to articulate properly. Not much of an answer, I suppose, but fucken 'ell wot you want, innit?! Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:06, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Analogy with strengthen, liken is less likely than with driven, taken. —Tamfang (talk) 04:29, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

"Fucken" looks less like "fucking" than "fuckin'", so perhaps appeals more to those who don't want to be really seen to be swearing in public? HiLo48 (talk) 06:40, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Don't worry, Jack. The world will only collapse when they start hypercorrecting and writing things like "Kentucky Fried Chicking". KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 08:25, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

I knew a guy name Kentucky who tried fricking. μηδείς (talk) 20:31, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Stan Freberg was way ahead of you there, KageTora: From the PC version of Old Elderly Man River: " He doesn't plant potatoes, He doesn't plant cotting, And those that plant them, Are soon forgotting ...". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 08:53, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Y tink it'z un olbaneezzum en Inglesh. Tha Gramer partizanz yousiolley vrite lak dhet.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 14:24, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

My guess is that as long as they're rebelling against conventional taste, which they may see as prissy, they might as well also rebel against conventional spelling, which they may see as pedantic.

Next: bitchen or bitchin'? —JerryFriedman (Talk) 14:50, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

It seems to me that fucking, when used descriptively, can be a participle (it's listed http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fucking as an adjective and adverb though), so fucken is its past participle if used correctly, thus the fucken written writing of it isn't completely useless. [Thus, it's just another adjective like "fallen".] That's to my ear, and I've been told I've got pixie ears too... --Modocc (talk) 15:48, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Father Ted introduced "feck" to the rest of the British Isles, which falls into the same category I believe. Americans have "freakin'" too. Alansplodge (talk) 16:53, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Given that Fucken and Fuckin have the exact same root, there really isn't any reason why one is less vulgar or preferable to the other than if one needs to convey tense or they just don't care. --Modocc (talk) 19:51, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

So, until then, they were feckless? Clarityfiend (talk) 20:25, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

• Last Halloween, my parents' neighbors had their grandson visiting with his sisters. He was dressed as Captain Hook with a patch and a parrot and a black tricorner. His little sisters were dressed as his henchmen. The neighbors don't live too close, and my mom's friend wanted her to see them, so the daughter drove them over, but the girls were already alseep in the car. The boy came up and rang the bell, held out his bag, and said, "Trick or treat." My mother said, "Oh, how cute!" "But where are your buccaneers?" Annoyed, the boy answered, "Under my buccan hat!" 20:28, 6 March 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Medeis (talk • contribs)

Boom! Boom! Alansplodge (talk) 22:38, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Or "Badump bump!" if you prefer. Thanks for pointing that out Medeis - I refer you to Basil Brush but it has its roots in the music hall tradition.[2] Alansplodge (talk) 09:15, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

I believe it's an attempt to appear fresh while giving a taste of the pronunciation. When people talk about being "fucken angry" they usually don't pronounce the eng (hence the dropping of the "g") and they also tend to alter the vowel sound as well. Kind of like writers who use phrases such as "the hell?", to illustrate how speakers sometimes omit, or don't speak as loudly, the "What..." portion. See also: gummint, prolly, etc. Matt Deres (talk) 17:39, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

That's what I'd guess as well. In "fuckin'", the reduced vowel can be anywhere in the [ɪ ~ ə ~ ɛ] range in my American accent, and more careful pronunciations feel like they're right in the middle of cardinal /ə ɛ/. Lsfreak (talk) 20:43, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Urban Dictionary says: “Easy way to identify you're chatting with an illiterate &/or child.” Good enough for me. Thanks to all who chimed in. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:30, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Resolved

future of media & media's future

Hi! When I read an article about Internet news stories, I came across a sentence which quite confused me: "If social is the future of media, then optimistic stories might be media's future." I can't figure out the difference between "the future of media" and "media's future". Would any friend enlighten me on the point? Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.249.239.155 (talk) 03:30, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

I think they mean the same thing here (wordsmithing requires that you avoid repeated words or phrases). However, I prefer "The future of media" as it doesn't personify the media in the way that "media's future" does. I would have written "If social is the future of media, then expect more optimistic stories." StuRat (talk) 03:48, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

I think (or suspect) the first means what the media are destined to become and the second means what will keep media alive. —Tamfang (talk) 08:42, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Suprematism

'The term suprematism refers to an abstract art based upon “the supremacy of pure artistic feeling”' ..here. What is the Russian word or root from which this term is derived? Thanks. Omidinist (talk) 06:19, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

From ru:Супрематизм: Супремати́зм (от лат. supremus — наивысший).

From http://synonym-dictionary.info/Словарь_синонимов/167756/Супрематия: супрематия: верховенство, главенство, господство, первенство, превосходство. No such user (talk) 08:20, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Omidinist (talk) 08:58, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

UN and varieties of English

It looks like a similar question was asked in the past, but the answerer referred to United Nations#Languages, which doesn't exist anymore, and I wasn't able to find an answer at Official languages of the United Nations either. Does the UN use or prefer a specific variety of English? As it oversees the United Nations Environment Programme and the World Health Organization, does it use Oxford spelling? --BDD (talk) 21:14, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

They use Oxford. Go here and click on the editorial manual, which takes you here, and the "spelling" link takes you here. Nyttend (talk) 23:27, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! --BDD (talk) 23:55, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Answered

Polecat

Does the word Polecat originate from 'Polish cat'? Just to clear something up. A quick Google search would suggest that this is a possibility. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 22:38, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

"...the first element is perhaps Anglo-French pol, from Old French poule, "fowl, hen" (see pullet (n.)); so called because it preys on poultry." Online Etymology Dictionary - polecat (n.) Alansplodge (talk) 22:42, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

The OED concurs that "pol" is one possible origin, but casts doubt on the likelihood, saying " a premodifying compound would be a very unusual word-formation type in French" ... "Alternatively, it has been suggested that the first element may be related to Anglo-Norman pulent , pullent and Old French, Middle French pullent stinking, disgusting, dirty", citing the regional (non-standard) French "chat putois" (stinking cat). I think the word is too old to derive from "Polish", but no-one knows for sure. The French Wiktionary gives no etymology for the French name putois. Dbfirs 09:41, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks very much! --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 17:29, 7 March 2014 (UTC)