Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.
Yeees ... so, why does the syncope not also apply to Newcastle? -- Jack of Oz[Talk] 10:35, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My guess is that sailors liked economy in the number of consonants that they had to yell at each other; bo'sun for boatswain is another example that springs to mind. Alansplodge (talk) 10:44, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) Because English is English? Because placenames have their own idiosyncratic rules? I don't believe that "why" questions like this have any better answer than these. Incidentally, Newcastle-under-Lyme is /ˈnʲuˌkæsl/ (or /ˈnʲuˌkɑsl/ if you live in the South) but Newcastle-upon-Tyne is /nɪˈkæsl/. --ColinFine (talk) 10:51, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I thought that only the local pronunciation had the stress on the second syllable. Our article needs adjusting. It currently has a contradiction between the IPA and the audio file. The second-syllable stress doesn't spread to most north-west England. Dbfirs 11:30, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't doubt that people who have had no contact with the place say /ˈnʲuˌkɑsl/. I defy anybody to hear /u:/ in the audio clip, though I accept that the vowel in it might be /ʲʊ/ rather than /ɪ/ --ColinFine (talk) 16:31, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know for sure that nobody pronounces it "njuksəl"? I'd wager that somewhere in the UK it IS pronounced it like that. I've had a tough time understanding Cockney pronunciation - not that I'm suggesting they would say "njuksəl". It's almost as bad as Strine... 196.214.78.114 (talk) 11:42, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a Strine wikipedia? --Orange Mike | Talk 12:41, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, I could not possibly know that for sure. I have heard it, but only the once. Bob Maynard, an Aussie radio announcer who's well known for his word play said it that way on a certain occasion about ten years ago*. I just happened to be listening, and even though it was clearly meant as a joke in the context in which he said it, it got me wondering. The fact that I've never had a repeat experience of /njuksəl/ tells me it's virtually unheard of. And unheard. (* Sometimes the origins of my questions are lost in the mists of time. They bubble away inside my psyche, sometimes for years, before coming out of the interrogatory closet.) -- Jack of Oz[Talk] 18:33, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
One possible explanation: /foʊksəl/ is a sailor's term, and similar to many other nautical words (topgallant, studding sail, gunwale, boatswain, etc.) it has a clipped pronunciation. The same doesn't apply to Newcastle. Newcastle also has a transparent etymology, which might make it resistant to shortening. Lesgles (talk) 18:39, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Tomb. Bomb. Comb. If you can work out the rationale behind those, then you'll be on your way to solving the forecastle/Newcastle problem. --Jayron32 19:26, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Because transmission between sailors was spoken, illiterate, and acquired (i.e., learnt after childhood, imperfectly, as a foreign language) while people from Newcastle had educated adult native speakers with book learnin' to correct'em. μηδείς (talk) 21:34, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's definitely a castle, if not very new these days
And there is blatantly an actual castle in the town centre of Newcastle, whereas ships stopped having anything like a castle on the front in the 16th century. Alansplodge (talk) 22:28, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a single word for reaping a large harvest of wealth? I vaguely remember a word associated with some kind of a horn.--Christie the puppy lover (talk) 23:33, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
