Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2011 February 10

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February 10

Coat of arms of Paray-Vieille-Poste

Hi! I saw: http://www.paray-vieille-poste.fr/rubriques_principales/notre_ville/histoire

So... "le huchet des postillons annonçant leur passage pour dire aux passants de se garer"

What is that in French?

And which Abbey of St. Germain is it talking about? Is it the Abbey of Saint-Germain-des-Prés? Or something else? WhisperToMe (talk) 01:49, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

In French it means "le huchet des postcillons annonçant leur passage pour dire aux passants de se garer". :) In English, however, it means "the bugles of the postilions announcing their passage to tell bystanders to move out of the way." Given the town's proximity to Paris, I assume it does mean the Abbey of Saint-Germain-des-Prés; the only other abbey by that name that I can find is the Abbey of Saint-Germain-d'Auxerre, which is about 150 km away. Lesgles (talk) 02:07, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you very much WhisperToMe (talk) 03:06, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

no less than vs not less than

I want to know the exact difference between 'no less than' and 'not less than'. Maybe it stems from the role of 'no' and 'not'. Please give me your nice advice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EricJoh (talk • contribs) 02:31, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Depends on the context. These would be used in different contexts. It's hard for me to say more without examples of contexts in which these would be used (I'm sure someone will come along soon and provide some). rʨanaɢ (talk) 03:13, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

"Not less than X" is an alternative way of saying "X or higher/more", or "at least X". It usually forms part of some formal condition:

• Applicants for migration must ensure they have not less than $20,000 in immediately accessible private funds.

But consider His diet is going really well. He has lost no less than 15 kilos already. That is not saying "at least 15 kilos"; it's more or less exactly 15 kilos, but it's emphasising the amount he's actually lost when a lower amount might have been expected.

Or, in reverse: He was expecting to have lost 20 kilos by now, but he's managed to shed no more than 5 kilos. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 03:32, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I agree, in the context Jack has given, "no less than" seems to stress that it's a large number. (e.g., saying "he lost no less than 15 kilos" conveys the same message, more or less, as "he lost a lot of kilos"). "Not less than" doesn't have that implication. rʨanaɢ (talk) 04:39, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Latin help again please

Back on my M. R. James... The phrases I need help with are 1)dolebat se dolere non posse (I think something like sorry for sorrow was not possible?), 2)secretum meum mihi et filiis domus meae, 3) umbra mortis (shadow of death?), 4) princeps tenebrarum, 5) vallis filiorum Hinnom 6) Hostanes magus (this is a person from mythology?), 7) penetrans ad interiora mortis. Many thanks, DuncanHill (talk) 14:45, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

(1) "He was sorry that he could not be sorry". (2) something like "my secret for myself and the sons of my house". (3) Yes, "shadow of death". (4) "Prince of darkness". (5) "Valley of the sons of Hinnom" (whoever that may be another name for Gehenna). (6) "Hostanes the magus" (who's mentioned at Daemon (classical mythology)). (7) "Penetrating to the interior of death". Pais (talk) 15:06, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, the valley of the sons of Hinnom is Gehenna. DuncanHill (talk) 15:09, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I found that and corrected it already myself! Although our article says it's singular in Hebrew, so the Latin should be vallis fili Hinnom. Pais (talk) 15:14, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

English language: - there's a word for this, but I can't recall it

I know there is an English word which describes the process of paying people the same wages as spending power decreases - does this ring any bells with anyone? pablo 15:02, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Not sure, but a related concept is purchasing power. See also Real versus nominal value (economics). Maybe these articles contain the word or phrase you are looking for. --Viennese Waltz 15:50, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Fixed income? Bus stop (talk) 15:57, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

No, the word I'm looking for was used (in a similar manner to the way that 'attrition' is used) to convey a gradual worsening of a situation. pablo 16:31, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

This article may contain the word or concept you're looking for - many countries are being pushed into fiscal austerity programs, some of them because they cannot devalue their currency (which would have the effect on wages that you're talking about). Another situation in which wages may stay the same (stagnate) while real costs rise is inflation. ☯.ZenSwashbuckler.☠ 16:40, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Purchasing power erosion or something like that? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 17:30, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Shrinking dollar? Bus stop (talk) 18:01, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Cost-of-living adjustment (COLA)? Marco polo (talk) 18:10, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

It seems to be the total lack of any adjustment, Marco. As the cost of living gradually goes up, the dollar or whatever becomes of less and less value, but the wage stays exactly the same in absolute dollar terms. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 19:14, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Oops, I misread the question. Sorry. Marco polo (talk) 20:42, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Wage erosion seems to be a common term. In some cases, wage erosion is connected to currency devaluation. Marco polo (talk) 20:46, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I thought of the term Stagflation, though I can see from the article that Wage erosion is just one of the symptoms. -- Q Chris (talk) 08:58, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you all. The sentence where I encountered it ran something like "The workforce had been misled and xxxxxxxed"; ie it was used as a verb, to describe the effect on the individual of wage erosion. Eventually I will probably re-read the book it was in, hopefully this will be sooner rather than later. pablo 11:48, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps wage-frozen or fixed-waged or something similar? 93.95.251.162 (talk) 16:35, 15 February 2011 (UTC) Martin.

Ctrl+F ?

Oh, I always get frustrated when that does not work in paper books :(. Ditto for Ctrl+Z on hand-written text (which I seldom practice these days). No such user (talk) 12:01, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

"The workforce had been misled and exploited? -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 14:38, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Of all the sentences in all the encyclopedias in all the world, the period walks out of mine.

Somebody just took out the ending periods in the quotations in the following:

The others were: "Louis, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship." (20th), "Play it, Sam. Play 'As Time Goes By.'" (28th), "Round up the usual suspects." (32nd), "We'll always have Paris." (43rd), and "Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." (67th).

Could this be right? Or is this some craven Vichy kowtowing? Clarityfiend (talk) 21:42, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Full_stop#Punctuation_styles_when_quoting provides some insight into the two approaches. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:10, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

That link deals with where to put punctuation in relation to quotation marks, but I think that the point here is that periods are not used within sentences, just at the end of them. When a quoted statement appears within another sentence, no period is used after the quoted statement (although a comma or semicolon or dash may be used if the syntax requires one). Consider the example "He cried out 'I'm leaving right now' and slammed the door"; you wouldn't put a period after now, would you? In the case cited by Clarityfiend, the colon after "were" should also be deleted, but the deletion of all the periods at the end of the quoted sentences is correct—they're already separated by the serial commas, and there's already a period at the end of the whole thing. Deor (talk) 23:07, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

arabic we the people

One of the most popular slogans of the 2011 Egypt revolution is "ash-sha'ab yurid isqat an-nizam" (The People want the fall of the system"). But wouldn't "ash-sha'ab nurid isqat an-nizam" make more sense, thereby signaling that the people = us? --Soman (talk) 23:19, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

It wouldn't make any more sense than "the people, we want the fall of the system" in English. It's not exactly wrong, but it's not exactly right either, and it's not as catchy and concise. Adam Bishop (talk) 00:10, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

This got me wondering, what is "we the people" in Arabic? I found some translations of the US Constitution that start off with "nahnu ash-sha'ab", so there you go. They could say "nahnu ash-sha'ab nurid", but since they don't use present-tense forms of "to be", without "nurid" it could also just say "we are the people". Adam Bishop (talk) 02:01, 13 February 2011 (UTC)