Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2011 April 4

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April 4

Lyrics of Lady Gaga's Born This Way

Lady Gaga's song Born This Way has the lines

She rolled my hair and put my lipstick on

In the glass of her boudoir

"She" here refers to "my mama" earlier in the song. What I can't make sense of is the part "put my lipstick on in the glass of her boudoir." Is "glass" here a part of a boudoir? If so, what is it? If not, how should the lyrics be understood? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.114.98.217 (talk) 00:23, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I'd think this is 'glass' as in 'looking glass' - i.e. a mirror. A 'boudoir' is a bedroom or dressing room. This makes sense to me... AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:32, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

It could be a reference to a mirror, or it could be a reference to the mirror-lined boudoir. Because the mother shouldn't need a mirror to put lipstick on her daughter, I'd lean toward the latter interpretation. Marco polo (talk) 01:01, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't know the rest of the lyrics, but it sounds like a mother helping her daughter to adorn herself while they are both in the mother's boudoir seated in front of a mirror. It seems odd if the mother is rolling her daughter's hair but putting the daughter's lipstick on herself, so I'd disagree with Marco polo's interpretation. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 07:49, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Make-up artists commonly make people up in front of mirrors (just as hairdressers do hair in front of mirrors), so I don't think it would be implausible for a mother to do the same (especially if she keeps her makeup on a dressing table with a mirror, as many women do). --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:09, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Why are you folks so intent on seeking logical consistency in a lyric by Lady Gaga? She's notorious for being a few nuts short of a fruitcake. Roger (talk) 18:26, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Sign (linguistics)

What are examples of linguistic signs that are not alphabetic letters, words or other grammatical units? --Goqer (talk) 03:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Apart from sounds (phonemes) and gestures (as in sign language)? --Kjoonlee 04:35, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Even more broadly, there are cues from body language which could easily fit that as well. The OP may be interested in reading up on, and studying Semiotics, which is the study of linguistic signs. --Jayron32 04:37, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Another one is Blissymbols. Alansplodge (talk) 19:18, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

What is the meaning of "East eats West"?

Is it a metaphorical use? What is its connotation? 117.211.88.149 (talk) 07:40, 4 April 2011 (UTC)Vineet Chaitanya

What's the context? — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 07:46, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I came across a book titled: "East Eats West: Writing in Two Hemispheres", when I googled for "East eats West", I found lot of hits, such as: "Where East Eats West: The Street-Smarts Guide to Business in China", "East Eats West (Video 2004) - IMDb", ... 117.211.88.149 (talk) 08:07, 4 April 2011 (UTC)Vineet Chaitanya

From the latter book's website[1], it seems designed to stop you getting (metaphorically) eaten alive by Chinese people: it describes the many risks of doing business in China, from corruption to differences in etiquette. Various metaphors like "dog eat dog"[2] or "eat someone alive" use "eat" in the sense of defeat, kill, or conquer in a ruthless environment; Websters has "eat (someone or something) alive 2 : to badly defeat or harm someone or something * Their competitors are going to eat them alive if they don't cut their prices. * If this story gets out, the press will eat him alive."[3]

However there are likely to be many other contexts, such as literal references to the consumption of western food in Japan[4] --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:18, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

The term itself is a play on words for the better known phrase East Meets West, refering in general to a "clash of cultures" that occurs when people from different backgrounds attempt to get along. --Jayron32 12:31, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Stress-dependent meanings

In English there are certain words, like subJECT/SUBject, inCLINE/INcline, etc., that are spelled the same, and pronounced essentially the same, but whose meanings change depending on where the stress is placed. In all the examples I can think of, the words are closely related. Are there any examples in which the words are unrelated? 86.184.104.111 (talk) 12:04, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Have fun, List of English homographs - X201 (talk) 12:09, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Invalid with stress on first syllable means someone confined to bed by disability. With stress on second syllable, it's an adjective meaning "having no legal effect". Mathew5000 (talk) 05:46, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

However, I think they had the same origin, in that the disabled were thought of as "not valid people". (Given the history, I could see why they might object to that term.) Those two meanings coalesced nicely in Gattaca, where peole who weren't genetical engineered were considered to be "invalid" in both senses of the word. StuRat (talk) 07:20, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

They do (sort of) have the same origin - but we must remember that the early meaning of valid was strong - so invalid (the person) means deficient in strength, not "not valid people". Valid is from the Latin validus - valere - to be strong. DuncanHill (talk) 11:31, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

There are two words which have different meanings, flare and flair. The term "flare" means to burn/sudden outburt and flair is related to skill. The words they sound familiar but are different and are used in different way. aniketnik 07:26, 5 April 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aniketnik (talk • contribs)

True, but such pairs are fairly easy to find and not what the question is asking for. 86.176.213.210 (talk) 13:08, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Colon with stress on the first syllable is a city in Panama (albeit capitalized and generally with a diacritic on the second o), with stress on the second syllable it's a body part or punctuation mark. Mathew5000 (talk) 21:57, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

That's odd... I pronounce the body part and the punctuation mark with the stress on the first syllable. (Thanks for the suggestions, btw!) 86.184.108.99 (talk) 00:36, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

You're right, I stated it backwards. Colón has stress on the second syllable while colon (anatomy) and colon (punctuation) are stressed on the first syllable. Mathew5000 (talk) 04:36, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

The two nouns desert are spelled the same but have different meanings (and different etymologies) depending on which syllable is stressed. Stress the first syllable, it means a dry area of land (like the Sahara) and is derived from the Latin verb deserere. Stress the second syllable, it means "deservingness" and is derived from the Latin verb deservire. (By the way, the verb desert is related etymologically to one of those nouns but pronounced like the other one.) Mathew5000 (talk) 22:10, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Also if you allow hyphens, you can find a lot of words beginning with re- that meet your criteria: refuse (noun) / re-fuse (verb meaning to provide with a new fuse); rebutter (someone who rebuts, accent on second syllable) / re-butter (to apply butter again, accent on first syllable); relay (noun, accent on first syllable) / re-lay (to lay again, accent on second syllable); resin (noun, an adhesive substance secreted by plants) / re-sin (to sin again, accent on second syllable). Mathew5000 (talk) 22:36, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

"Re-butter" would be accented on the second syllable, with the first syllable, "re-", being unreduced and/or having secondary stress. Along these lines, rebar/re-bar works, too (reinforced metal bar vs. bar again). --Atemperman (talk) 02:20, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

• Inter, the verb, stressed on the second syllable, meaning "to bury", and inter, the prefix, stressed on the first syllable, meaning "between".
• Borderline is amide, pronounced like amid, which is a chemical with RC(O)NR'R", and amide, pronounced ay-MIDE (/'eɪ.maɪd/), which is a chemical with an NH₂ anion. They share etymology, however.
• Mate, meaning "partner" or "friend", and mate (/ma.te/), the South American caffeinated beverage also work, although it's arguable whether mate the drink is still considered "foreign". --Atemperman (talk) 02:12, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
  • I have to disagree with you on "amide". Ethylamide has stress on the first and third syllable. --Trovatore (talk) 18:00, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
    • Oh, wait a minute, I think I was thinking of ethylamine. But lysergic acid diethylamide is definitely stressed on the penult. Then again that fits your RC(O)NR'R" pattern. So what are the substances with the NH2 anion? --Trovatore (talk) 18:06, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
      • diethylamide has /'æmɪd/--the stress is different from isolated amide (for some speakers), but the vowel qualities are totally different. Sodium amide (/eɪmaɪd/) and lithium diisopropyl amide are the two best-known compounds with NH₂ (or NR₂) anions. --Atemperman (talk) 06:00, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Interesting one. So leaving aside all the almost-/kind of/if onlies, so far we only really have desert. I found incense, refuse and console, but those all turn out to be related in their two meanings (fascinatingly, in the latter case). I'd very much like empress to count, but the only instances I can find of it being used as a verb are unfortunate misspellings. Maybe someone with access to the OED can find a 15th century precedent for empress as a verb? Henry^Flower 16:11, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Would 14th century do? OED 1st edition does give empress as a verb, pronounced with stress on the second syllable, tagged obsolete, etymology from OF empresse-r, emprecier. Definition: "To subject to pressure, press, oppress. Also intr. to crowd, press eagerly into." Citations from 1325, 1386, 1400, 1475. The 1386 citation is from Chaucer: "Such feendly thoughtes in his hert empresse."[5] Mathew5000 (talk) 23:45, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

I feel obliged to note that although the OED 1st ed. gives "Empress v." as the headword spelling, none of the four quotations follow it. Here are links from Google book search to the four OED quotations: [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] Mathew5000 (talk) 23:58, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Chaucer will do nicely! Thanks for the research. Henry^Flower 02:54, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

I think desert must also be related in the two meanings. Surely a desert is a place that's been deserted, more or less? By Man or God? (Actually I don't really think that; I love the desert. But I bet that's where the word comes from.) --Trovatore (talk) 18:03, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Indeed I've heard that the wooded lands that later became Kentucky etc were called "the American desert". —Tamfang (talk) 23:57, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Not desert noun and verb; noun and noun (see Mathew's original post above). Henry^Flower 03:09, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

My bad. --Trovatore (talk) 07:08, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

See wikt:buffet, wikt:denier, wikt:entrance, wikt:instar, and http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/instar.

—Wavelength (talk) 19:37, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Buffet and arguably denier don't meet the OP's criterion of 'pronounced essentially the same apart from the stress'. But instar looks like a winner! New to me in both meanings. Henry^Flower 03:09, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Unionized. More than the stress changes, but their roots are etymologically unrelated. Recreate also has a quality change as well as a stress change, and they share etymology. --Atemperman (talk) 06:00, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

heteronymsGabenowicki (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Big bird, little bird

Translating Jefferey Deaver's Edge, I found the sentences as follow:

A picture of a trim, crew-cut man in khaki slacks and a short-sleeved shirt faded in.(...) "The Colonel. Our father... and, yeah, people called him 'the Colonel,' capital C. Lieutenant colonel, a little bird, not a big bird."

What does the speaker mean by 'a little bird, not a big bird'? --Analphil (talk) 18:26, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

In terms of military rank, a lieutenant colonel (little bird) is junior to a "full" colonel (big bird). What Deaver means is that even though the character was only a "half" colonel, people treated him as if he held the full rank. --Xuxl (talk) 18:43, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

The "bird" in reference to a colonel alludes to the rank's insigne, which is an eagle (hence the not entirely flattering term "chicken colonel" for a full colonel). A lieutenant colonel's insigne is not even a little bird; it's just a silver star leaf [thanks, Alansplodge]. Deor (talk) 19:04, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

This was an edit conflict but just to agree with Deor, here's my version:- A Colonel in the United States Army wears a silver eagle on each epaulette as an insignia of his rank. A colonel is known as a "full bird colonel" as opposed to a Lieutenant colonel who is sometimes known as a "light" or "half bird colonel" even though he only wears a sort of stylised leaf, supposedly an oak. "Big bird" and "little bird" are variations of the same theme. Alansplodge (talk) 19:05, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

In Starship Troopers, Heinlein used the term short-tailed bird for a retired Lt. Col. who was teaching high school. I got the impression that that was a much higher rank in the Terran Federation than it is in the US Army; the TF did not seem to be officer-heavy, and getting even to Lieutenant seemed to be quite an accomplishment. --Trovatore (talk) 07:11, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Napiery

What is it?--78.150.224.119 (talk) 19:16, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

'Napiery' can refer to tablecloths, linens, etc. See the wiktionary entry for napier here: [11], and our article Napier_(surname). SemanticMantis (talk) 19:28, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

And see our page on napery, of which napiery seems to be an alternative spelling. --Antiquary (talk) 19:30, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

It appears in this restaurant review. Alansplodge (talk) 19:31, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

"Napiery" appears to be a misspelling - I've found plenty of ghits, but no dictionary references; the OED doesn't recognise it. However, I have created a redirect from napiery. Gwinva (talk) 22:57, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

And see, I was thinking "What's a napiery" and when I said it aloud, I thought "maybe he means an apiary instead", since it is pronounced roughly the same. Just on the off chance that is what he meant, an apiary is a bee farm. --Jayron32 19:42, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Every cloud has a silver lining. One of the unheralded side benefits of increasing hearing loss is access to a whole new world of previously unrecorded mondegreens. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 22:52, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

The n-migration is actually a common linguistic phenomenon in English historically. For example "An apron" was originally "a napron" and "an orange" was "a naranja". Rebracketing is the term, and it happens quite frequently. So I wouldn't be shocked if that is what the OP meant. --Jayron32 03:43, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I see the faint outlines of a shaggy dog story about a beekeeper who dies and is eaten by insects, leaving only an apiarist's bones. —Tamfang (talk) 00:42, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Spanish help

Hi! I'm trying to add Spanish descriptions to commons:Diagrams of events at Columbine High School

So is "Harris enters the school" "Harris entra a la escuela?" - Or is there another tense that I'm missing out on?

I may have some additional questions before I complete the page... WhisperToMe (talk) 20:18, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

A number of continental European languages actually use the historical present more than English does (though I don't know about Spanish). AnonMoos (talk) 00:56, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Right, but in this case Whisper is already using the present in English, so it shouldn't be a problem. It looks fine to me, but note that in Spain the preposition en is preferred with this verb—"Harris entra en la escuela"—whereas what you wrote is more characteristic of Latin American Spanish.[12] Lesgles (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification! Since many immigrants to the U.S. mainland come from Latin America, and AFAIK the Latin American immigrants are why Spanish is becoming more spoken in the US. It may be preferable to use Latin American Spanish with mainland U.S. subjects. WhisperToMe (talk) 01:26, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I found a couple mistakes in the other descriptions, though: "matan Scott" should be "matan a Scott" (Spanish uses "a" before animate direct noun objects), and similarly with "dañan". "Disparar" is only used when the object is a bullet or an arrow; to say "to shoot (someone)", use "pegar un tiro a", e.g. "X pega un tiro a Y". Lesgles (talk) 01:15, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you so much for finding the errors :) WhisperToMe (talk) 01:26, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I know to say before is "antes" - but what would "just before" be? - Aside from that, I think I finished the descriptions, so please check my work one last time - Thank you WhisperToMe (talk) 01:53, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

It's very similar to English: "just before dinner" = "justo antes de la cena" (note the de). Lesgles (talk) 03:23, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you so much :)

The reason why I am trying to add Spanish to many American article descriptions is two fold:

1. Most immigrants to the U.S. speak Spanish, so many major U.S. articles should have Spanish

2. It's compensation for the prevalence of the English language - All Commons media files need English descriptions, but normally that would mean that many U.S. files would need less work than non-U.S. files - Spanish is the most commonly spoken second language, so as compensation U.S. media get Spanish as the second language, while media of non-English speaking countries get English as the second language

WhisperToMe (talk) 03:30, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

One last question related to the category: How would I say "Investigative and Prosecutive Graphic Unit" - I know Unit is "Unidad" - But I'm not sure how to order the adjectives... WhisperToMe (talk) 03:33, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Not sure, but my best guess is to say "Unit of graphics for investigation and prosecution" = "Unidad de gráficos para la investigación y el juicio". Lesgles (talk) 20:44, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you so much :) WhisperToMe (talk) 23:23, 5 April 2011 (UTC)