Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 January 24

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January 24

Yet or still?

I wrote the following in a letter: "At the moment we are not looking for new participants. However, this may change in the future, so we may yet contact you later." Should that be "we may still contact you later"? DirkvdM (talk) 09:13, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it's wrong, but I do think it would be better with "still" or even with nothing at all there.

The meaning of yet that you're going for here is "nevertheless" or "however." However, its placement seems to me more typical of the meaning "at a future time." The "yet" might therefore be perceived as duplicating the role of "later." "Still" is okay, but could probably be left out altogether since the "however" at the beginning of the sentence can be understood as performing the same function (applying to the sentence as a whole rather than just to "this may change in the future"). Another option would be to use "nevertheless." Joeldl (talk) 09:53, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Just an addendum. The reason yet and still may have seemed attractive here is that they can have the meaning "nevertheless" or "however" I mentioned above, but also the meaning "continuously up to the present time." In that case, you'd want still to modify may, and "we may still" is an idiomatic way of saying "we still may." The problem is that having two time words, still and later, in the same sentence is confusing, even though there's nothing logically wrong with having still modify may and later modify contact. Joeldl (talk) 10:24, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

No, but there is something wrong. This is the kind of thing people write when they're not trying to be Mr. Perfect, they're just trying to communicate. On that level, it's fine; it's unambiguous, and it conveys a clear meaning. But you sensed a problem, and there is one. "Yet" in this context implies that you have had the opportunity to contact him for an indeterminate span of time but haven't and that that failure to contact him in the past is no indication that you will not in the future. If I understand the situation, this letter was a first reply to his submission, so that you've had no chance not to contact him up till now. That's the main problem; "yet" is a wrong word and should be deleted. If my analysis so far does not apply because I've gotten the facts wrong, "later" is redundant with "yet" or vice versa. --Milkbreath (talk) 15:27, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

For clarity, leave out the "yet," which doesn't help and may hinder. "At the moment we are not looking for new participants. If this changes, we may contact you again." No need for "however," nor "in the future," nor "yet," nor "later." (I realize your question was about yet versus still, but it seems your goal is to let people know that your current situation may change.) --- OtherDave (talk) 20:41, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

But what you suggest doesn't actually say that the situation may change. Joeldl (talk) 21:07, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

I think "if this changes" covers that. Pretty much any situation may change. Gibraltar may tumble, the Rockies may crumble. The original has two degrees of uncertainty anyway ("this may change" and "if it does change, maybe we'll get back to you"). --- OtherDave (talk) 12:53, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I disagree that the inclusion of "if this changes" in a sentence is anywhere near as strong a statement that change is possible as "this may change." Joeldl (talk) 13:13, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Then you'll have to acclimate yourself to disagreement. --- OtherDave (talk) 19:24, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that the combination "may yet" has a specific use where it acknowledges that something is possible but also says you think it's unlikely, or at least unlikely in the near future. I take "yet" here to be being used in its contrastive sense, contrasting with whatever the more probable situation is.

For example, someone might say, "We may yet come get this plane down safely, if we can just get one of the engines restarted. Or else find a big wide river within range and then make a perfect landing on it." Or there is an old practical joke where you send someone a telegram reading:

IGNORE PREVIOUS TELEGRAM. ALL MAY YET BE WELL.

Of course there really never was a previous telegram, but the use of "may yet" implies that (for the reasons you supposedly explained in it), you think things are not going to be well.

Of course, this is not what "may yet" was meant to imply in Dirk's. As others have stated, it would be better to use "may still" or just plain "may".

--Anonymous, 04:45 UTC, January 26, 2009.

Beriberi

Anyone speak Sinhalese? Our beriberi article derives the disease name from the Sinhalese for "I cannot, I cannot", but most dictionaries I've looked at say it means "weakness". Which is right, or does it mean both? Lesgles (talk) 20:56, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedians by language has a link to Category:User si.

-- Wavelength (talk) 22:24, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

The OED says "A Sinhalese word, f. beri weakness; the reduplication being intensive." Xn4 (talk) 09:53, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Of course, I don't know Sinhalese, but the phrase "I cannot" may be idiomatic for "weakness" in that language. We have similar phrases in english, for example "Making love" for sexual intercourse, or the like, where the direct translation of the phrase word-for-word does not capture a deeper understood meaning. Therefore, it does not mean that our article is strictly incorrect based on the OED cite... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 13:00, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm a Sinhalese, so I guess I can help you there. "Beri" (pronunciation is somewhat like barry) means "can't". It would mean weakness when it is used as berikama, meaning inability. The exact meaning is not weakness, though. Beriberi is a kind of slang word, which means something like lazy or backward. Hope that helps. Chamal ^talk 11:23, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Sure I can help with this. I'm in a tight schedule, just give me 24h. --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ ^{walkie-talkie | tool box} 17:39, 27 January 2009 (UTC)