Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 September 21

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

September 21

past tense of a verb

what is the past tense of the word "dig"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Isyong (talk • contribs) 02:39, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

It is "dug" in modern English, and the past participle is "dug" also. See the list of English irregular verbs. You might find the obsolete form "digged" in some old translations of the Bible.

-- Wavelength (talk) 02:54, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

You can find "digged" at Bible Concordance: Digged.

-- Wavelength (talk) 05:30, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

You can find "dug" at Bible Concordance: Dug.

-- Wavelength (talk) 18:52, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

What's this called?

I've just been reading about Patrick White. He was awarded the first Miles Franklin Award in 1957, and he later wrote about the award ceremony: "Personally, I felt as though a slow tin of treacle was being poured over me".

Now, we all know that tins are neither slow nor quick. But the meaning is clear nevertheless: the treacle was slowly being poured over him, out of a tin. What's this literary device called?

I know it's not just a writing error. He won a Nobel Prize, so that means he can write any damn thing he likes and it's automatically part of the canon. :) -- JackofOz (talk) 02:43, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

It's an example of hypallage. Deor (talk) 04:07, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Excellent. Thanks, Deor. -- JackofOz (talk) 19:55, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

origin of GRAPHOPHONIC

i AM LOOKING FOR THE ORIGIN OF THE WORD GRAPHOPHONIC. i HAVE MANAGED TO DICOVER THE MEANING OF GRAPHOPHONIC BUT CAN'T FIND IT'S ORIGIN CAN YOU HELP

Meandyoutoo (talk) 03:09, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Please don't write questions in ALL CAPS. It looks like you're shouting. —Lowellian (reply) 01:27, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

It comes from the Greek words graphein, to write, and phonos, voice. DAVID ŠENEK 11:03, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Nuclear food

What's the etymology of using the word "nuke" to mean "cook in a microwave oven"? --67.185.172.158 (talk) 03:58, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

I think it comes from the fact that microwave ovens use radiation (microwaves duh) and nuclear explosions also give off radiation.MorgothX (talk) 06:39, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure but it might be irradiated food. Oda Mari (talk) 19:23, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

No, that has nothing to do with microwaving food. Corvus cornix_talk 23:01, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

And microwave ovens aren't nucular nuclear. So? —Tamfang (talk) 02:11, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

how can i search for english phrases on wiki

can i search for english phrases on wiki —Preceding unsigned comment added by Being.literate (talk • contribs) 12:57, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Sure. Use a google site search, like this one. Replaces whatever is between the quotation marks with the phrase you are looking for. If you don't require an exact match, leave out the quotation marks altogether. Fribbler (talk) 13:07, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Japanese honorific -kakka

According to the Wikipedia article Japanese honorifics, "Kakka (閣下) means 'Your Excellency' and is used for ambassadors and heads of state." I get that means that regular people would use "-kakka" for ambassadors. My question, though, is would one ambassador use "-kakka" when speaking with another ambassador, or would he use "-san" instead since they are both ambassadors and the same rank? —Lowellian (reply) 21:21, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure about this, but I believe they would use "[name]-sama", as they are both the same rank. I have never heard two ambassadors addressing each other, so I can't be sure. 'Kakka' may be used in correspondence between two ambassadors, but I doubt they would say it to each other in speech even when conducting business.--ChokinBako (talk) 21:47, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

You wrote, "they would use "[name]-sama", as they are both the same rank." But the article Japanese honorifics says about "-sama" that it "is used primarily in addressing persons much higher in rank than oneself". These two statements can't both be right. —Lowellian (reply) 01:23, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I have never heard two ambassadors addressing each other too. So I'm not sure but I think they use "-san" or the occupation-related title "-taishi(ambassador)" when they are Japanese ambassadors. According to ja:特命全権大使, kakka for ambassadors is a honorific used at formal occasions. I think regular people do not use kakka for ambassadors except advised to use it beforehand. I think most citizens don't know kakka is the honorific for ambassadors. I didn't know either! Maybe use "-sama", "-san" , "-taishi-sama/san". Sama is not so often used in everyday life. It mostly used when someone talks to a customer but not all the time. It depends. Oda Mari (talk) 05:52, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, my question is still unanswered, because presumably, ambassadors and heads of state would know that "-kakka" is supposed to be used for ambassadors and heads of state... but would they use it for each other, or is it only supposed to be used when regular people talk to ambassadors and heads of state? —Lowellian (reply) 13:40, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, to clarify: I was thinking of -sama because I was thinking of two ambassadors being from different countries, one being Japan and one a foreign country, but actually I suppose it is more often for two Japanese ambassadors (stationed in different countries) to talk to each other rather than a Japanese ambassador and a foreign ambassador, as countries don't usually have an ambassador stationed in their own country! Also, the title -sama is used for a customer or a formal guest, and a foreign ambassador in your country is almost certainly a formal guest! Also, I did in fact answer your question: 'kakka' is NOT used in speech, but in correspondance, i.e. in letters. --ChokinBako (talk) 22:37, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Wow. gakha (각하; 閣下) used to be used in Korean to address the president in speech. It isn't used anymore, I think, because of a strong association between gakha and dictatorships. --Kjoonlee 01:53, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

The only time I can think of where it might be used in speech is at a very formal occasion (such as a state dinner or reception) to announce someone arriving or something, and maybe not even there. I agree with ChokinBako that it's most likely to be used in formal correspondence (such as a letter). When speaking to each other, and only if they both knew Japanese well enough to do so, they would probably just use "-san". ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 05:26, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

In my experience, the term is mostly obsolete in modern spoken Japanese, aside (perhaps) from extremely formal usage when referring to a member of the peerage, a foreign military leader or military dictator, etc. It still comes up in conversation in movies set during or before World War II. For two modern Japanese ambassadors to use when speaking to each other would be stilted and very strange, and I do not believe would be correct. However, I could see a Japanese ambassador addressing a foreign ambassador as "X-kakka" in a formal setting when the foreign ambassador is regarded as a physical persona of his country (i.e. as a plenipotentiary representing his head of state, especially if this ambassador himself was a member of a foreign nobility or had a high military rank himself). In this case, the social status of the foreign ambassador would be higher than the Japanese ambassador. --MChew (talk) 06:38, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

French pronouns

there is no information on the French pronouns page on indefinite or reciprocal pronouns. Could anyone knowledgeable suitably expand it; as I think it would help the page; or could anyone in the mean time offer me a good source of information on these subjects, that is similarly in depth as the article is on the pronouns it actually covers. Thanks you. 92.16.148.143 (talk) 22:18, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

That's in the French personal pronouns article... AnonMoos (talk) 23:30, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Is it really, because I couldn't find it there, and not to mention that indefinite and reciprocal pronouns aren't [neccesarily, I guess they can sometimes be] personal pronouns so it would be an odd place to put it. Particularly as the definitions of personal and indefinite pronouns almost contradict. 92.16.148.143 (talk) 00:36, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Se and soi are currently discussed together with the other words that they have the most in common with. It took me less than 15 seconds of looking at article French pronouns to figure out that this information was most likely to be found at French personal pronouns. The most commonly used French indefinite forms ("quelque" and partitive "de") are not pronouns... AnonMoos (talk) 10:02, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

By 'indefinite' perhaps the OP had on in mind. —Tamfang (talk) 02:09, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Chockomut

A rather frivolous question, but does anyone know the origins of this variant of "chocolate", or if it's a dialect variant of some kind? I've seen it in a phrase along the lines of "Duh, I like chockomut ice cream", which seems to be a low-level Internet meme. 68.123.238.140 (talk) 23:37, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure but from a quick Google it may have originated from here [1] Nil Einne (talk) 09:27, 22 September 2008 (UTC)