Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2024 July 29

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July 29

"Great Thoughts" anthology

Does anyone know anything about an anthology of poetry, titled "Great Thoughts", that was published before 1890 and probably after 1840? It's mentioned multiple times in a book I'm working on in Wikisource, with notices like this one that say some of the poems in this collection already appeared in "Great Thoughts". The book these mentions appear in is by a single author, a Alice E. Argent, but I don't know her birth date, so that can't narrow the search. Thanks, — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 14:37, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Possibly the series Great Thoughts from Master Minds, published by A. W. Hall, Hutton Street, London. DuncanHill (talk) 15:04, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Got it, that's it, since the first line of that poem is in there. Thanks for the help! — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 15:12, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Glad to be of assistance, many mentions of Alice E. Argent in newspapers of the period (1870s - 90s), including in connexion with Great Thoughts. DuncanHill (talk) 15:18, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Indeed, after digging a bit deeper, I was able to find her full name, birth/death dates, etc., and expand the Wikidata item. — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 15:25, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Dutch - pl. help confirm

Just I helped a little (probably new) user in their now accepted AFC article about nineteenth century speed skater Anke Beenen.

• Anke Beenen#Popularity says

  On 22 December 1879 her speed skating club "Thialf" paid attention celebrated her silver anniversary by building a large gate in front of the house of mayor Daniël de Blocq of Scheltinga on the Heideburen in Heerenveen.

1) The article's popularity section mentions one 'mayor Daniël de Blocq of Scheltinga'.

WP has an article Daniël de Blocq van Scheltinga of a twentieth century person. Obliviously they are supposed to be different persons being from different centuries but on safer side wish to get that confirmed.

2) I did not get why the club would create 'a large gate in front of the house of mayor'? Since I had already asked good number of questions to the new user I do not make new user that I am going after them.

3) '.. on the Heideburen in Heerenveen.' What is 'Heideburen' being referred to here?

Bookku (talk) 15:07, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

"The Heideburen" is a street. There is a Wikidata item Heideburen

"a large gate" sounds like a triumphal arch of some kind. Temporary ones would be erected to celebrate a victory, visiting royalty, etc. DuncanHill (talk) 15:23, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

the sentence seem referring to 'in front of the house of mayor', does not even say 'in front of the office of mayor' intrigues me; may be I am just over thinking Idk. Bookku (talk) 15:29, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps a bad translation? DuncanHill (talk) 15:33, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

that can be possibility. Many thanks for inputs Bookku (talk) 15:50, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

(ec)And the Van Scheltinga family seem to have included many Daniël de Blocqs. DuncanHill (talk) 15:33, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

According to the source used in the article (Leeuwarder nieuwsblad, 30 januari 1937), it was indeed a temporary arch, made from blocks of ice, on top of which three figurines were placed, depicting Beenen, her skating partner Jouke Schaap and the 'ice god' Thialf in the middle. The source also clearly says it was in front of the mayor's house. - Lindert (talk) 16:30, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks for the confirmation Bookku (talk) 16:50, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

The street, Heideburen, was then part of the municipality of Schoterland; you can see the municipal border on this map from 1926 (the black dashed line behind the houses along the canal; Heideburen is the red road along the canal). Dutch Wikipedia has an unsourced article with a list of mayors (w:nl:Lijst van burgemeesters van Schoterland), which gives the name of the mayor as Hans Willem de Blocq van Scheltinga. The newspaper article linked above only gives his name as mayor De Blocq van Scheltinga. Dutch "van" means "of" in English. Translating such prepositions in names of nobility isn't unheard of. The municipal hall or whatever you want to call it was in the next village, Oudeschoot. PiusImpavidus (talk) 18:22, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

A 17th-century Daniël de Blocq of Scheltinga was grietman of Schoterland (w:nl:Lijst van grietmannen van Schoterland). Someone got confused, it seems.  --Lambiam 22:36, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

@DuncanHill mentioned nl:Van Scheltinga family seem to list a 'Mr. Daniël de Blocq van Scheltinga (1835-1878), lid provinciale staten' before Jhr. mr. Hans Willem de Blocq van Scheltinga (1870-1933), gemeenteontvanger en wethouder van Rheden.

But there seem to be some confusion about name and post if we compare all three articles mentioned above. Of course in historical details such discrepancies can be routine too. Bookku (talk) 05:14, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Two sources that confirm that Hans Willem was (at some time) the mayor of Schoterland: [1], [2] The Rheden Hans Willem, born in 1870, was nine years old at the time the ice arch was erected, which was too young to be appointed to a mayorship, so this is a different individual. The Schoterland mayor was Hans Willem jr.; the Rheden wethouder has the right age to have been Hans Willem III. It is a safe assumption that the author who named the mayor "Daniël" did so by mistake. In 1879, the town Heerenveen did not exist as a single municipality but was divided over two municipalities, Aengwirden en Schoterland, so the mayor in front of whose house the arch was erected cannot have been mayor of Heerenveen. I have replaced the last part of the sentence by:

a large gate in front of the house of the mayor of Schoterland, de Blocq van Scheltinga, on the Heideburen street in Heerenveen.

 --Lambiam 11:07, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks to all of you for all the search and support. Bookku (talk) 12:54, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

USA Banking questions.

So I do know of someone that owed the credit card section of a bank, $27,000, before the bank finally disconnected. Which brings me to several theoretical questions.

1. If someone owes the credit card of Bank A $27,000, do the other banks know about it? I heard that they do not know directly, but they can do through shared databases. But the database doesn't tell the bank an exact amount, just a range amount.

2. What if you owe Bank A $27,000, but you already have over $40,000 in Bank B. What can Bank A do in regards to that?

3. What if you owe the credit-card side of Bank A $27,000, but you do have $27,000 in the commercial-banking side of Bank A. Can Bank A seize that amount? And if so, do they send you a letter notifying you of that, in which you can just withdraw that money out, or can they seize it from you without notifying you, or do they have to take you to court for that, in which you would just withdraw that money out?

4. What if you owe Bank A $27,000, but you have more than that in Bank B. But then, Bank A and Bank B got merged into the same bank? Heh. 66.99.15.162 (talk) 19:41, 29 July 2024 (UTC).

First, credit cards are rarely issued by specific banks… they are issued by specialized companies such as Visa, or Mastercard. You will continue to owe the credit card company for any debt on the card, even if you switch banks.

And yes, if you default on a significantly large debt, the credit card company can take legal action and place a lien on your assets, wherever those assets might be located. Blueboar (talk) 20:10, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

In the US there are several commercial consumer reporting agencies that keep track of people's so-called "credit scores", which are supposed to represents the creditworthiness of individuals; see Credit score § United States. Lenders can access your credit score. The situation under question 2 is, from a legal point of view, not different from the general situation that someone refuses to pay a debt while having valuable assets. What Bank A can do in the situation under question 3 depends on the contract you have with the bank (the rules you agreed to when opening the account), but I cannot imagine it includes transferring money without notification. If you should know, or have reason to expect, that a debtor may take you to court, then, I think, it is a crime to squirrel your assets away in order to avoid the anticipated seizure.  --Lambiam 21:36, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Jurisdiction matters, as does whether the debt is being serviced. 1. is hugely dependent on the jurisdiction. In some places, sharing personal data is a violation of the law; in others, it is just good practice. 2. needs some explanation as to why Bank B needs to know about the debt to Bank A. Imagine the customer is Elon Musk, and ask yourself why Bank B needs to know this information. 3. See 1. Above. In general, the two “sides” of a bank – personal and corporate – are actually two different bank accounts. If the corporate side is not linked to (e.g., collateral for) the corporate side, in many jurisdictions the personal side can only be accessed via a court-ordered bankruptcy proceeding. 4. There is no reason for a bank to merge two bank accounts simply because the corporate entities (bank owners) merged. More, the debt is not said to be in arrears or delinquent, so there would be no reason to notice that it is (or isn’t) related to an unrelated deposit. DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 20:06, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

To Dor (HK). When you say jurisdiction matters, I guess you already stated that this is not a federal court issue and is state. So 1 state will allow Bank A to seize money from Bank B, and another state would not? Wonder if that's correlated with red vs. blue states. Could the same hold true for the credit card and savings coming from the same bank? Also, would the state law be for the state in which you opened the account, or the state the headquarters city is in?

To Blueboar, JP Morgan Chase and Capital 1 both having a commercial banking side, and a credit card side. I would imagine you owing the credit card side of the bank, had less to do with Visa/Mastercard. Visa/Mc makes money from swiping...

And to Lambiam and possibly others. Before my dad divorced his wife #6, she opened up a cc in their name and started using it behind his back, until cc company sent him a bill, hitting $27,000. So he hired a lawyer where the lawyer sent the cc company a picture of his proof of divorce so he's no longer eligible for the bills after their divorce date, which is 99% if not 100%. So now cc company only goes to her for the $27,000. She is Korean but from South America, where she went back to. This was in 2016. Earlier this year, I spoke with the attorney that sent the cc company the divorce, I asked him if the cc company knew she was back in the U.S., could she be arrested? Lawyer said no. Which means this is still a civil issue. So the idea of withdrawing all the money from your bank when the bank notifies you, is probably still not criminal. Also, there is no such thing as civil lawsuits with individuals. Why? Because when the process server rings your doorbell, you say "Sorry you got the wrong address, don't know anyone with that name that lives here." Or better yet you don't answer the doorbell, and certainly never sign anything. So, owing a cc company $27,000 is still not an arrestable offense.

Thanks for your responses guys. 66.99.15.162 (talk) 14:58, 30 July 2024 (UTC).

Now, regarding if you owe Bank A $27,000, does Bank B know about it? I will put this out, because someone will interpret this as asking for legal advice, but the story is over. Before my dad died, the wife #6 transferred $42,000 from his Bank C, to Bank D. So, why do I go to, Bank C or Bank D. Turns out to be a mix of both. And she put my dad's name in her Bank D so both their names are in the account, to make it look like he was transferring his own money, from his own bank to his other bank. So, that became legal. So here I am contacting Bank D about it. I didn't ask for a refund. I asked to mark her as a fraudster person. The bank responded that they sent my story to their fraud-team. Then I told the Bank D, that she owes the credit-card side of Bank B, $27,000 in 2016. You know what Bank D responded? Bank D responded "that has nothing to do with us." But I reiterated that obviously the credit card side of Bank A considers her a fraudster person, to help back up my story that she is a fraudster, and so, Bank D replied we sent this story to the fraud team again... So, Bank A and D are 5/3rd Bank and Byline Bank. If she owes 5/3rd Bank $27,000, do the other banks know about it? Does 5/3rd Bank not try to tell other banks about it? Well, hence comes privacy laws. The fact that she has a Byline Bank in 2024 makes me think the account opened long before 2016... And ChatGPT says Byline Bank will never e-mail or phone call 5/3rd Bank to confirm if she owes $27,000, that that's not how it works, that the only info they can get is through shared databases. 66.99.15.162 (talk) 15:06, 30 July 2024 (UTC).

I'm not looking for advice on how to get back the $42,000, but am looking into how banks can know stories of how other people owe other banks money. I'm also looking for any famous cases where Bank B froze your account because they found out you owe Bank A a lot of money. 66.99.15.162 (talk) 15:39, 30 July 2024 (UTC).

When I said jurisdiction matters, I was thinking of Cuba v. Sudan, or Hong Kong v. Canada; we have very little idea what country you (or your father) live(d) in. DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 19:05, 1 August 2024 (UTC)