Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2024 August 14

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August 14

Where was Rochambeau paroled?

Donatien-Marie-Joseph de Vimeur, vicomte de Rochambeau was a prisoner on parole in England after the Surrender of Cap Français. Where was he paroled? I ask as it forms part of the frame for Q's short story "The Monkey-Flower". Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 00:22, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

I found one source (Frenchempire.net) that says he was held in Norman Cross Prison. Blueboar (talk) 01:22, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

I found this and this which say he was paroled to Moretonhampstead. DuncanHill (talk) 22:38, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

What does it mean to be "childlike" in a religious context?

See also: Teaching of Jesus about little children

Here are a couple of examples of what I'm talking about:

• In Matthew 18:3 and Luke 18:17, Jesus says "Unless you become as little children, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven." and "Whoever doesn't receive the kingdom of heaven as a little child shall not enter." respectively.
• To quote a Wikipedia article, "Kali likes devotees who have childlike qualities in them."

One take I could run with is that being "as a little child" means being humble and approaching a holy figure with what some would call a beginner's mind. (i.e. with curiosity and open-mindedness, and without arrogance or prejudice) After all, in Matthew 18:4, Jesus continues; "Therefore, whoever humbles themselves as this little child, the same is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven." On the other hand, the Kali article also says "To be a child of Kāli, Rāmprasād asserts, is to be denied of earthly delights and pleasures. Kāli is said to refrain from giving that which is expected. To the devotee, it is perhaps her very refusal to do so that enables her devotees to reflect on dimensions of themselves and of reality that go beyond the material world."

The part about denying oneself earthly delights reminds me of the following Gospel passages:

• "If you come up to me, you should deny yourself, take your cross and follow after me. Whoever finds their own life shall lose it, whoever loses their own life for my sake shall find it. For what should one give in exchange for their life? For what would one profit if they gain the world, but forfeit their life? What should one give in exchange for their life?" — Mark 8:34-36, Matthew 16:24-26, Luke 9:23-25
• "Whoever doesn't take their cross and follow after me is unworthy of me." — Matthew 10:38, Luke 14:27
• "Whoever doesn't renounce everything they have can't be my disciple." — Luke 14:33
• "Whoever loves their life shall lose it. Whoever hates their life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal." — John 12:25

Asides from Christianity and Hinduism, are there any other religions or belief systems where divine figures are said to favor believers who are childlike? – MrPersonHumanGuy (talk) 20:10, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Realistically, the language of Christianity is frequently and actively debated. It is based on multiple translations of ancient texts, often done with political goals. We are now largely stuck with pseudo-Shakespearean language, such as "Unless you become as little children". Nobody talks like that outside religion, so nobody can say precisely what it means. Some pastors and ministers will claim to know. It's up to you who you choose to believe. HiLo48 (talk) 01:58, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

It sounds like an encouragement to be mindless. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:52, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Most little children know their own minds a lot better than most adults know theirs, in my experience. My favourite example is a toddler trying to stand up and walk. After the first 50 unsuccessful attempts, do they go "Looks like it's never gonna happen, so I may as well just give up"? Hardly. That's adult thinking, not child thinking. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 07:20, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

You ask two questions with different answers ("what does it mean" and "which religions say this"), and while I can't easily answer the second, I can provide resources for the first. Go to Matthew 18 or Luke 18 from the "Christian Classics Ethereal Library", which hosts a great number of resources, including several commentary series. In the page's upper right, just below the gear icon, is a dropdown (every time I load the site, the label is different) offering several options, including "Commentaries". Click this, and you'll be prompted to pick several Protestant commentaries that have sought to explain Christ's meaning in this passage. Meanwhile, there are plenty of recent translations with recent English, e.g. the HCSB says "unless you are converted and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven". Nyttend (talk) 07:35, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Speculation: It seems to me that referring to children in this context implies that children "believe" in absolute and ideal properties:

Omnipotence, omniscience, perfection, truth, justice, protection, ...

Adults do not assume that a random human - a spouse, a neighbour, a political candidate - possesses any of these characteristics. An adult person probably must retreat to some infantile idealism to perceive a God in all this mess. A tall order and, on occasion, I envy those who can. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 16:25, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

I feel that the word you are all looking for is 'innocence', and all that entails. MinorProphet (talk) 13:17, 22 August 2024 (UTC)