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Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2023 February 3

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February 3

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L'enfant et les sortilèges

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In the section of L'enfant et les sortilèges by Ravel, the section entitled "How's your mug?" - The Teapot is in English. Well in some ways. The language used is inchoehernt and barely makes sense.

For instance take the interaction

"How's your mug?" "Rotton" "Better had" "Come on"

I don't particularly understand why this part contains English - maybe it made more sense in the context of opera at the time? As Anton ego remarked, I would like some perspective please! 2600:1700:3D74:F010:4C2E:E649:8D72:EC31 (talk) 04:40, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not a full answer but likely to be of interest: Ravel collaborated with the writer Colette and we have a 1919 letter from him to her:[1]

Another thing: what would you think of the cup and the teapot, in old Wedgwood – black – singing a ragtime? I confess that the idea of having a ragtime sung by two Negroes at the Académie Nationale de Musique fills me with delight. You’ll observe that the form – a single couplet, with refrain – is perfectly suited to the action in this scene: reproaches, recriminations, fury, pursuit. Perhaps you will object that you don’t usually write Negro slang. I, who know not a word of English, would do the same as you – I’d wangle it somehow [je me débrouillerais].

Colette encouraged him to go for it. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 04:50, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Presumably the final words were chosen by Colette, since they're in her libretto. According to Arbie Orenstein, the black Wedgwood cup was changed to a china teacup, and he describes the result as "one of the most curious scenes in the operatic repertoire". Per Orenstein:[2]

The libretto calls for English, French, and pseudo-Chinese nonsense, which are set to a ragtime, complete with piano, sliding trombone, xylophone, celesta, wood block, and a cheese grater.

Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 04:58, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Robert Orledge might have a more explicit answer to your question. He credits the unique scene to Ravel's general embrace of foreign musical traditions and his specific interest in jazz, a recent import to France swept in by WWI.[3]
Looks like I was probably wrong about the ragtime's authorship. Per Orenstein, now in his own book, the ragtime lyrics were an insertion of Ravel's. Orenstein has access to Colette's version of the scene, published in a book I can't access called Ravel et nous, by Hélène Jourdan-Morhange.[4] May explain the broken English; I don't know that Colette knew any English either, though she did have an affair with an American. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 05:42, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Kilpatrick, E. (2015). Making operas. In The Operas of Maurice Ravel (Music in Context, pp. 1-52). Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
  2. ^ Ravel, Maurice; Orenstein, Arbie (2003). A Ravel Reader: Correspondence, Articles, Interviews. Courier Corporation. ISBN 978-0-486-43078-2.
  3. ^ Orledge, Robert (2000). "Evocations of exoticism". In Mawer, Deborah (ed.). The Cambridge Companion to Ravel. Cambridge University Press. pp. 42–43. ISBN 978-0-521-64026-8.
  4. ^ Orenstein, Arbie (1991). Ravel: Man and Musician. New York: Dover Publications. p. 193. ISBN 978-0-486-26633-6.

Coronation service

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banned user
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

I have the last three pages (pp 37-39) of the Coronation service of 1953. It appears to have been divided into seventeen parts, of which I have parts XVI and XVII and the latter part of part XV. XVII is the Recess, during which "everyone present sings the National Anthem" (Harry and Meghan please note). XVI is the Te Deum from Morning Prayer. My copy begins with the blessing of the Duke of Edinburgh, who having just paid homage to Her Majesty "returns to his faldstool". Then comes the Communion Service, opening with the prayer for the church militant and inserted therein before the dismissal is a prayer beginning "Prevent us, O Lord" - this may well have been said since before the Reformation since it now remains only in the "Thanksgiving after Mass." My question is - judging by the numbering this was only the last forty minutes or so of a three-hour service - what went before?

Changes to the wording of the service should be made with caution - we don't want a rerun of ChatGPT's update of the Bible (reproduced in the Daily Mail of 15 December):

And lo it came to pass that a man had a peanut butter sandwich stuck in his VCR. And he didst [sic] despair, for he knew not how to remove it. But then the Lord spoke unto him, saying: 'Verily, I say unto thee, use thy fingers to gently pry the sandwich from the VCR. And fear not, for I am with thee always, even in thy hour of need.' And the man did as the Lord commanded, and the sandwich was removed from the VCR. And the man was filled with gratitude, and he praised the Lord for his wisdom and guidance. Amen.

It all seems to be here. --Antiquary (talk) 11:57, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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