Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2023 April 8

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April 8

Rafael del Riego

In the last days of his imprisonment before the execution, he was repented for his constitutional crimes and become a catholic, even with a unuseful grace request to the king. That means he was become part of the absolutism at last minute? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.21.233.193 (talk) 09:30, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by absolutism? Do you perhaps mean absolution. Unless a priest absolved him, then I guess not, but it doesn't actually make any difference. Shantavira|^{feed me} 13:23, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

The full letter who written for the king's clemence suggests that he had abandoned his constitutional's ideas and united himself to the absolutism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.15.70.154 (talk) 13:59, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

It appears the OP is talking about Absolute monarchy i.e. "absolutism", not absolution. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:13, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

It's clear that I'm talking "absolute monarchy".

It wasn't clear to me until I looked at the article and saw the context. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:55, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

It can be doubted that he full-heartedly embraced absolutism. It appears more likely that Riego was desillusioned by the lack of popular support and had no appetite for becoming a martyr for an impopular cause. The King may also have had his doubts about the sincerity of this conversion.  --Lambiam 16:49, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

It seems likely that he was just trying to avoid execution, rather than a genuine change of heart, but I can't find anything to support that. This contemporaray and very partisan account suggests that his recantations were inventions of the authorities. Alansplodge (talk) 16:54, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't remember where, but I once read that he really abandoned all of his constitutional's ideas, becoming a catholic during the imprisonment, and that his statement of clemency was true, even if the liberals tried to contest it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.205.47 (talk) 20:02, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Lot of good it did him. His final words should have been, "Hasta la vista, suckers!" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:09, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Robespierre

Please, can you help me to find information about the full lives of Jean-Baptiste Poignard d'Enthieuloye and Louis-Pierre Hérivaux, the director and one of his teachers at Louis-le-Grand school? Thank you very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.21.233.193 (talk) 09:46, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Are you writing a historical novel? If not, is there a reason to think these people were of so much interest that their lives were documented in detail?  --Lambiam 16:37, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

But can you search if there're some sites? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.136.55 (talk) 18:05, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

I can find only a little on Poignard d'Enthieuloye, at least on the web. He was appointed in 1770 and was a Doctor of Theology. He is described as "well-meaning, but feeble in the measures he took", for example by allowing philosopher d'Alembert, one of the leading lights of the Enlightenment at the time, to correspond with some students at Louis-le-Grand (which should not have been the case in a strict Catholic college). This led to an internal revolt which dismissed Poignard (date not given but most likely early in the revolutionary period) and which was followed by the resignation of most of the teachers. He was replaced by Denis Bérardier. All of the above is from this document. Herivaux seems to have authored a number of texts and is therefore included in surveys of writers from the period (see here and here). You may also want to look into Liévin-Bonaventure Proyart, who has an article on the French wikipedia [1]; he was deputy principal at Louis-le-Grand when Robespierre was a student, and later wrote a very critical biography of his former pupil. There is probably a lot more in various archives, given Louis-le-Grand was a very prominent institution at the time, but it's not readily available through an internet search. Xuxl (talk) 16:24, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

For Proyart, I've already read that site. For the other two, can you find their dates of birth and death?

No dates are readily available for either Poignard or Hérivaux. Xuxl (talk) 18:08, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

The following record of renonciation made at the occasion of the death of his aunt in 1766 is most likely for the same Poignard, therein described at the time as being a "prêtre, Bachelier en Licence de la maison et Société Royale de Navarre", living at the collège de Navarre in Paris. 194.223.53.134 (talk) 15:28, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Maisey, Maisey. Give me your answer do.

For the year 1851, Relics of Sariputta and Moggallana calls Frederick Charles Maisey a captain, Śāriputra#Relics claims he was a lieutenant, and Alexander Cunningham#Archaeology states he was a colonel. Now George Santos may claim he was the most decorated lieutenant-captain-colonel in history, but what was Maisey's real rank? Clarityfiend (talk) 11:19, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Our article Alexander Cunningham makes him be a colonel in 1837 and a lieutenant in 1851, which is stranger. Maisey became lieutenant-cornet or ensign per 9 December 1842 and climbed through the ranks, being promoted to

• lieutenant per 8 September 1846;
• captain per 10 November 1855;
• major per 19 January 1858;
• lieutenant-colonel per 25 June 1864;
• colonel per 16 July 1869.^[2]

In 1888 he was promoted from lieutenant-general to general.^[3]  --Lambiam 16:28, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:38, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Otto Thomas Solbrig

Spanish Wikipedia has an uncited claim that Argentinian biologist and botanist Otto Thomas Solbrig died on 7 April 2023. Can anyone confirm, with a source? Google News shows nothing. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:35, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

"Murió Otto Solbrig...", has Como modo de reconocerlo y recordarlo, Fernando Vilella, docente de la Fauba que compartió varios momentos con él, compartió este texto que publicamos but main source is WP. fiveby(zero) 16:44, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

The info was added by an IP in a drive-by edit. The absence of a reliable source confirming this independently make it extremely doubtful this is based on a fact.  --Lambiam 16:58, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

"Falleció Otto Solbrig, el ecólogo argentino que se destacó en la Universidad de Harvard". Clarín. April 9, 2023.

Either way..

I recall reading something in an article, something like "uncle? darwin thinks it took a lot longer, it is beautiful either way"

it was something someones mother said to them in the biography section. I thought it was john ruskin but that does not seem so. 81.214.106.156 (talk) 16:22, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Can you explain exactly what you are asking? Alansplodge (talk) 16:43, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

I guess the question is, which article reported this (or something similar), and also who (presumably the mother of a niece or nephew of Darwin or else a niece of Darwin) said this, speaking to which child of hers?  --Lambiam 17:09, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes, forgive my incoherence. Lambiam has it correct. I tried looking through the darwin family, but my surface level search did not ring any bells 81.214.106.156 (talk) 17:11, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

I also want to add that I put a ? after uncle because it may have been grandpa or something of that sort 81.214.106.156 (talk) 17:12, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

According to our article on Ralph Vaughan Williams it was his mother who said it: "The Bible says that God made the world in six days. Great Uncle Charles thinks it took longer: but we need not worry about it, for it is equally wonderful either way". Interestingly, our Darwin–Wedgwood family page shows that Darwin was RVW's great-uncle both by blood and by marriage. --Antiquary (talk) 17:23, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

thats it! Thank you 81.214.106.156 (talk) 18:11, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Contradictory information on military recruitment in "History of the United Kingdom during the First World War"

The "Recruitment and conscription" section of the article says

Higher recruitment rates were seen in England and Scotland, though in the case of the Welsh and Irish, political tensions tended to "put something of a blight upon enlistment".

But the "Regional conditions" section says

Kenneth Morgan argues that, "the overwhelming mass of the Welsh people cast aside their political and industrial divisions and threw themselves into the war with gusto." Intellectuals and ministers actively promoted the war spirit. With 280,000 men enrolled in the services (14% of the population), the proportionate effort in Wales outstripped both England and Scotland.

Both these statements are cited but they seem somewhat contradictory does anyone know if one of them isn't correct? Llewee (talk) 17:26, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Just at a glance: the first talks about recruitment. Typically this means voluntary enlistment and excludes conscription. The second says enrolled. Would this include all soldiers, including those conscripted? I don't know if this is the explanation, but it's something to start with. Conscription in the United Kingdom might lead you to more info. --47.155.46.15 (talk) 02:54, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

A Kingdom United: Popular Responses to the Outbreak of the First World War in Britain and Ireland (pp. 154-155) says:

Despite optimistic reports in the press, between August and December the actual numbers of men responding was proportionally less in Welsh‐speaking than in English-speaking parts of Wales. By 31 August 7,612 men had volunteered in Wales; up to the same point 34,760 men had volunteered in London, 8,722 in Birmingham, and 8,003 in Manchester. This proportionally lower figure was an early indication of a trend that was to continue throughout the first two years of the war.

The population of Wales in 1911 was 2,421,000. I'm not sure exactly how London was defined in that quote above, but the population of Birmingham was 760,000 and Manchester 654,000 in 1901, [4] so both might have been getting on for one million by 1914. So the Welsh population was at least two-and-a-half times that of either city, for a lower recruitment figure. Alansplodge (talk) 10:59, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks both, I will add a clarification to the second section.--Llewee (talk) 21:59, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Banknote's value

It's often stated that fiat money don't have intrinsic value, being essentially a piece of paper. But could it be argued that all banknotes (especially historic ones that are out of circulation) do have a value surpassing simple paper because of 1) multiple anti-counterfeiting features, such as distinct special paper, color-changing ink, raised printing, etc 2) consequent cost price which makes genuine banknotes more expensive to produce than, e.g. simple paper 3) artistic graphic value, similar to artworks? 212.180.235.46 (talk) 21:33, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Like most things, they're worth whatever somebody is willing to pay for them. There are collectors for such things, see: Notaphily. 136.56.52.157 (talk) 23:38, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Most money is bank deposits, not physical notes and coins. See money supply. Just to pluck an example statistic: In 2010 the total money supply (M4) measure in the UK was £2.2 trillion while the actual notes and coins in circulation totalled only £47 billion, 2.1% of the actual money supply. --47.155.46.15 (talk) 02:57, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

There is a market for fantasy banknotes.^[5][6][7]  --Lambiam 05:16, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

"Greybacks", for example. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:38, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

The OP might want to take a closer look at the difference between cost of production and value. Scarcity or beauty might be a reason for a higher value, but never expensive production techniques. DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 12:56, 9 April 2023 (UTC)