Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 May 30
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May 30 edit
Can people cross the border at the Tennessee-Mississippi border? edit
On Google Earth, I can find a suburban division, and it is sitting right on the Tennessee-Mississippi border. So, does that mean that, if you cross the road to get to the other side, you will be meeting your neighbors from a different state? If Mississippi dwellers live under Mississippi laws and Tennessee dwellers live under Tennessee laws, then what happens if the people on both sides of the border get into a violent fight? 24.214.225.199 (talk) 12:12, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- That's a great question and I don't have a definitive answer, but if the brawl covered both states I wonder whether that would mean it came under FBI derestriction. -- Q Chris (talk) 13:44, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- What is derestriction? —Tamfang (talk) 00:35, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
- I think Q Chris meant "jurisdiction".--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 18:51, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- What is derestriction? —Tamfang (talk) 00:35, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
- Broadly speaking, any state in which an essential part of the crime was committed could prosecute. The laws that apply are those of the state(s) in which you commit the acts, not your state of residence. If a crime spans more than one state, then the federal government may also have the option to prosecute. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:51, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- It's also worth noting that separate crimes can be prosecuted in separate states. If, for example, you beat somebody up in Tennessee, then went into Mississippi and battered a second person, there is no reason why one could not be tried separately in both states; even if such events occurred within minutes of each other. --Jayron32 16:51, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- Not just separate crimes. The same individual crime can be prosecuted in separate states, if elements of the crime occurred in both. Heath v. Alabama firmly established the really ethically-knotty principle that states were separate sovereigns for criminal-law purposes, and that Fifth Amendment protections against double jeopardy do not apply to prosecutions by different states for the same acts. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:06, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
- It's also worth noting that separate crimes can be prosecuted in separate states. If, for example, you beat somebody up in Tennessee, then went into Mississippi and battered a second person, there is no reason why one could not be tried separately in both states; even if such events occurred within minutes of each other. --Jayron32 16:51, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- There are several such borders running down the length of a street in Europe, but now with national borders: Heelweg (Dinxperlo, NL)/Hellweg (Suderwick, DE); Nieuwstraat (Kerkrade, NL)/Neustraße (Herzogenrath, DE); Grensstraat (Putte NL/BE – both the village and the street have the same name on either side of the border, but there are duplicate house numbers); Rue de Petit Audenarde (Herseaux, BE)/Rue Jules Guesde (Wattrelos, FR). Until 30 years ago there would have been a fence running down the length of the street, dividing it into two one-way streets, but since Schengen that's no longer needed. It seems to work pretty well. I suppose that if there's a head-on collision on one of those streets, police from both sides of the border get involved and you have to find out which traffic law applies. PiusImpavidus (talk) 18:48, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Perhaps the messiest such border is along Baarle-Nassau, Netherlands and Baarle-Hertog, Belgium. The two towns share a continuous conurbation; it behaves much like a single town, except that seemingly arbitrary and random plots of land belong to either country with no rhyme or reason. Some of these more obvious lines are marked out by lines on the ground, but not all of them. You can walk down streets in town and pass between the two countries multiple times without knowing it. Less messy is Derby Line, Vermont/Rock Island, Quebec which is similarly a contiguous population center that is divided by an international border. In the U.S., the OP's situation isn't even the most messy jurisdictional issue. The Idaho Murder Strip is a particularly messy jurisdictional problem, see [1]. Regarding the The OP appears to be from the U.S., so answering the direct question "Can people cross the border at the Tennessee-Mississippi border?", I'm surprised that as an Ohio resident, they are unfamiliar with the fact that there is no border control between U.S. states; there is complete freedom of movement within the U.S. Many people cross state borders every day as part of their normal day, without any complications. In fact, Ohio itself has several such conurbations that cross state boundaries with its neighbors: West Hill, Ohio and Sharon, Pennsylvania are contiguous: [2]. Similarly, there's Union City, Ohio and Union City, Indiana: [3]. The U.S. has a number of such "twin cities". Some share names, like Union City, Delmar (Maryland and Delaware), Bristol (Virginia and Tennessee), or Texarkana (Arkansas and Texas). Other places just have continuous urban areas that cross borders. It's quite common in the Northeast, for example, where states are small and where borders are just arbitrary lines on the ground, to find such places where borders aren't obvious between states. For example, nothing particularly interesting happens as you travel between Salem, New Hampshire and Methuen, Massachusetts. There's usually a nondescript sign marking the border along most of the main roads between the towns, but otherwise its fairly easy to miss when you cross the border between those states, which locally is stupidly convoluted. --Jayron32 12:32, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- Those intrigued by such a situation might enjoy reading China Miéville's novel The City & the City, which takes it to the ultimate extreme. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.209.235.54 (talk) 15:11, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- I remember that Dutch/Belgian border thingy from an episode of QI. There's more info here. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 17:30, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- See also Brezovica pri Metliki on the Croatia/Slovenia border, which does have border control, but done in a reasonable manner.~ 31.217.4.15 (talk)
- WHAAOE Line house. 2A00:23C5:C719:7201:4C8:45F9:154C:7231 (talk) 14:26, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
- Those intrigued by such a situation might enjoy reading China Miéville's novel The City & the City, which takes it to the ultimate extreme. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.209.235.54 (talk) 15:11, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- Perhaps the messiest such border is along Baarle-Nassau, Netherlands and Baarle-Hertog, Belgium. The two towns share a continuous conurbation; it behaves much like a single town, except that seemingly arbitrary and random plots of land belong to either country with no rhyme or reason. Some of these more obvious lines are marked out by lines on the ground, but not all of them. You can walk down streets in town and pass between the two countries multiple times without knowing it. Less messy is Derby Line, Vermont/Rock Island, Quebec which is similarly a contiguous population center that is divided by an international border. In the U.S., the OP's situation isn't even the most messy jurisdictional issue. The Idaho Murder Strip is a particularly messy jurisdictional problem, see [1]. Regarding the The OP appears to be from the U.S., so answering the direct question "Can people cross the border at the Tennessee-Mississippi border?", I'm surprised that as an Ohio resident, they are unfamiliar with the fact that there is no border control between U.S. states; there is complete freedom of movement within the U.S. Many people cross state borders every day as part of their normal day, without any complications. In fact, Ohio itself has several such conurbations that cross state boundaries with its neighbors: West Hill, Ohio and Sharon, Pennsylvania are contiguous: [2]. Similarly, there's Union City, Ohio and Union City, Indiana: [3]. The U.S. has a number of such "twin cities". Some share names, like Union City, Delmar (Maryland and Delaware), Bristol (Virginia and Tennessee), or Texarkana (Arkansas and Texas). Other places just have continuous urban areas that cross borders. It's quite common in the Northeast, for example, where states are small and where borders are just arbitrary lines on the ground, to find such places where borders aren't obvious between states. For example, nothing particularly interesting happens as you travel between Salem, New Hampshire and Methuen, Massachusetts. There's usually a nondescript sign marking the border along most of the main roads between the towns, but otherwise its fairly easy to miss when you cross the border between those states, which locally is stupidly convoluted. --Jayron32 12:32, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
Is there a "Queen of Dominica"? edit
According to the Supreme Court Order as part of law of Dominica [4], the Chief justice shall be appointed by "Her Majesty" and other judges shall be appointed on behalf of "Her Majesty" by the JLSC. Also, the judges need to swear allegiance to "Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, her heirs and successors". Does it mean that there is a "Queen of Dominica"?--Mike Rohsopht (talk) 13:56, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Yes. See Queen of Canada for a similar situation (in a slightly bigger country with a similar relationship to the UK). Xuxl (talk) 14:12, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Dominica is indeed a republic, and its President is its head of state. Elizabeth II is not the Queen of Dominica.
- However, a number of Caribbean nations - including Dominica - have supranational superior and supreme courts. The 15 member states of the Caribbean Community all share the Caribbean Court of Justice. Under that, the 6 member states of the Organisation of Eastern Caribbean States share the Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court. Justices of the ECSC are appointed by the Queen, on the advice of the JLSC. (In practice, as happens in many Commonwealth nations, appointments by the Queen are essentially rubber stamps of whatever decisions are made by the relevant local authorities.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:16, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Then what's the meaning of "Her Majesty" in the Supreme Court Order under the law of Dominica? Does it mean the Queen of UK? In the Supreme Court Order under the law of other OECS states, does it mean the Queen of the respective state?--Mike Rohsopht (talk) 16:32, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, in that context "Her Majesty" refers to Elizabeth II. The Supreme Court described in those documents appears to be the Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court, not a Dominican court. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 17:46, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Domenica only became a republic on 3 November 1978. The opening paragraph of this order, whose commencement date is given as
27th February 1967
, identifies it specifically asAN ORDER made under section 6 of the West Indies Act 1967 of the United Kingdom
, so naturally the monarch referred to in that order is that of the UK. --Lambiam 08:15, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- Then what's the meaning of "Her Majesty" in the Supreme Court Order under the law of Dominica? Does it mean the Queen of UK? In the Supreme Court Order under the law of other OECS states, does it mean the Queen of the respective state?--Mike Rohsopht (talk) 16:32, 30 May 2022 (UTC)