Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2021 February 9
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February 9 edit
Lenin and Stalin edit
Please, can you help me to search some historical information? What was the political ideas of Lenin and Stalin's parents during the tsarist regime? Are there Lenin and Stalin's school boys or professors who became devoted zarists and their arch-enemies during the communism? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.53.48.76 (talk) 16:08, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
- Ilya Ulyanov, Lenin's father, was a minor bureaucrat in the Tsarist regime under Tsar Alexander III, mostly as an educational administrator. He was an advocate for educational reform, and sought equal access to public education for all Russians regardless of gender or class; but AFAIK, was otherwise himself was not a critic of the Tsarist regime. Lenin did have an older brother, Aleksandr Ulyanov, who was a member of Narodnaya Volya, an anti-Tsarist group, and he was executed following a failed assassination attempt against the Tsar. He had several other siblings with similarly anti-Tsarist tendencies. Ilya died the same year that Aleksandr was executed. Lenin's mother, Maria Alexandrovna Ulyanova, was from Jewish and Baltic German descent, and other than making several visits to Lenin while he lived abroad in exile, I don't see any indication of her political activity. Stalin's father Besarion Jughashvili, appears to have been a failed business owner who spent most of his life working in a factory and drinking heavily, he left Stalin and his Mother at some point in Stalin's early childhood. I don't see any information on his political leanings in his article. Stalin's mother, Keke Geladze, and I don't see any evidence of her political leanings prior to the Russian revolution. Stalin had no siblings that lived past infancy. --Jayron32 16:30, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
- For political learnings (zarist/absolutist or revolutionary) can you search on history documents, and not only in their Wikipedia pages? And for the second question? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.53.48.76 (talk) 16:37, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
- Yes, if you scroll down to the bottom of each Wikipedia article, there are the books and articles in the "References" section, some of which you can click to see online; or you can use Google or [books.google.com Google Books] to do your own research. Alansplodge (talk) 18:44, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
- The original historical documents will be in Russian, so perhaps you might like to ask about them on the Russian Wikipedia. Alansplodge is steering you correctly re google books. If you search strings like “childhood of Lenin” or “parents of Stalin” you get books like this biography of Lenin (referenced in the article Jayron linked for you on Lenin’s father) or here is something similar for Stalin. For the second question, searching for “childhood friend Lenin” or “school friend Stalin” brings up mentions or anecdotes like those here or here, and then perhaps you would like to read the Wikipedia articles on those names, such as the story about Fedor Mikhailovich Kerensky mentioned in Early life of Vladimir Lenin or Ioseb Iremashvili. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 18:52, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
- Yes, if you scroll down to the bottom of each Wikipedia article, there are the books and articles in the "References" section, some of which you can click to see online; or you can use Google or [books.google.com Google Books] to do your own research. Alansplodge (talk) 18:44, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
- For political learnings (zarist/absolutist or revolutionary) can you search on history documents, and not only in their Wikipedia pages? And for the second question? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.53.48.76 (talk) 16:37, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)Lenin's high school head teacher, Fyodor Mikhailovich Kerensky, was the father of Alexander Kerensky, the leader of the socialist government that the Bolsheviks overthrew in the October Revolution, but I can't find anything to suggest that there was any influence. This book calls the coincidence "a curious freak of history". Alansplodge (talk) 19:00, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
- It looks like the elder Kerensky held the title of "Inspector of Public Schools", which I believe was also the title held by Lenin's father as well. They would have been colleague bureaucrats. An interesting coincidence indeed. As an aside, Kerensky was hardly a tsarist; he was a social democrat; however the Bolsheviks made enemies of anyone who wasn't a Bolshevik including other leftist parties such as Kerensky's own Trudoviks/Socialist Revolutionary Party and the Mensheviks. --Jayron32 19:13, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
- He was the head or principal of the gymnasium (school) which Lenin attended. School inspector seems to have been a later appointment. Alansplodge (talk) 14:52, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- But he was a tsarist or a revolutionary? --87.2.66.76 14:55, 10 February 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.2.66.76 (talk)
- As far as I can tell, nobody knows, but it seems unlikely that a revolutionary would be given a government post. Alansplodge (talk) 13:39, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
- But he was a tsarist or a revolutionary? --87.2.66.76 14:55, 10 February 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.2.66.76 (talk)
- He was the head or principal of the gymnasium (school) which Lenin attended. School inspector seems to have been a later appointment. Alansplodge (talk) 14:52, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- It looks like the elder Kerensky held the title of "Inspector of Public Schools", which I believe was also the title held by Lenin's father as well. They would have been colleague bureaucrats. An interesting coincidence indeed. As an aside, Kerensky was hardly a tsarist; he was a social democrat; however the Bolsheviks made enemies of anyone who wasn't a Bolshevik including other leftist parties such as Kerensky's own Trudoviks/Socialist Revolutionary Party and the Mensheviks. --Jayron32 19:13, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)Lenin's high school head teacher, Fyodor Mikhailovich Kerensky, was the father of Alexander Kerensky, the leader of the socialist government that the Bolsheviks overthrew in the October Revolution, but I can't find anything to suggest that there was any influence. This book calls the coincidence "a curious freak of history". Alansplodge (talk) 19:00, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you very much, but I don't have time to read those sources, then can you read those or others and write me on my talk page? Furthermore, Kerensky's father was a tsarist? --87.2.66.76 08:15, 10 February 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.2.66.76 (talk)
- Stalin's mom never had any political views. She apparently retained her blissful ignorance up to 1930s. It has been reported that when Stalin visited her somewhere in mid 1930s (I don't remember the exact year), Keke asked him: "So who are you then in the country, Joseph?" - "I am the General Secretary of the AUCP(B)." - "But what does that mean?" - "Well, you remember the Czar, right? One could say I am the Czar now". So Keke understood Stalin was essentially the new Czar.Potugin (talk) 00:16, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
Lewis Broad, author edit
I have a copy of Broad, Lewis; Russell, Leonard (1935). The Way of the Dictators. With an introductory letter by David Lloyd George. London: Hutchinson & Co (Publishers) Ltd.. As you can we see we already have a (rather stubby) article about Leonard Russell, but nothing on Lewis Broad. I have been unable to find much out about him, other than LibraryThing's page here. Can anyone help? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 23:10, 9 February 2021 (UTC)