Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2019 September 3

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September 3

Mrs. Man's Name

Where on Wikipedia does it talk about the use of "Mrs. Man's Name" (or more specifically "Mrs. Husband's Name") as the standard way to refer to a woman for certain purposes. Google reveals several Google Books results for this as the way to refer to a woman for formal purposes, but these all date to the early 20th century. Does Wikipedia talk about this in any of its articles?? Georgia guy (talk) 00:32, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

You mean like "Mrs. John Smith"? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:36, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

That's exactly what I mean. Georgia guy (talk) 00:39, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

There is an article called Mrs. which may or may not provide a satisfactory answer, but it's a place to start. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:42, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Maiden_and_married_names, plus stuff in some articles of Category:Surname or Category:Family , such like Marriage Gem fr (talk) 00:49, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

I would say the practice of introducing women in that manner persisted into the middle of the 20th century, until feminism kicked in in the 1960s and 1970s (if you introduced Betty Freidan as "Mrs. Carl Friedan", she might have tossed a flaming bra at you). Of course, you will always have holdouts who refuse to change. SinisterLefty (talk) 00:52, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Besides the ones already given, it's also mentioned in passing in Ms. and The Honourable. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 02:29, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Georgia_guy -- traditionally in Britain, an honorific or title which a woman has due to her marriage (rather than from inheritance from her father or mother) was not put directly before her given (first) name. This rule applied to noble and aristocratic stuff (which is why "Princess Diana of Wales" is wrong, while "Diana, Princess of Wales" is correct), but it also applied to "Mrs." when it came to ordinary people. So "Mrs. John Smith" is analogous to "Princess Michael of Kent"... AnonMoos (talk) 05:50, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

I can see some logic in that - calling her "Princess Diana of Wales" would mean that she was Welsh, while "Diana, Princess of Wales" means that she had the title "Princess of Wales". Is this correct? JIP | Talk 13:55, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

JIP, actually that particular problem is not really a consideration in British titles, as we can see in Earl Mountbatten of Burma--Lgriot (talk) 18:18, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

See also Territorial designation. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 19:27, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

JIP -- "Wales" is the name of the principality in question, but is otherwise irrelevant here. According to the rule I mentioned, "Princess Diana" would imply that she was born a princess, or is a princess due to something inherited through her father or mother, while the reverse order "Diana, Princess" (where the title is not directly before the feminine given name) does not imply this. AnonMoos (talk) 00:07, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

"Princess Diana of Wales" would be the style of a daughter of a Prince of Wales, just as Diana's sons were styled "Prince N of Wales" until each received a ducal title as a wedding present. (Hm, before William's birth in 1982 there had not been a "Prince/ss N of Wales" since 1910.) —Tamfang (talk) 04:48, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

vessel artifact auction

troll
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
When the RMS Mauretania (1906) was scrapped, were any of the vessel's artifacts autioned?2604:2000:7104:2F00:908F:C0CC:B3D3:2C1 (talk) 01:57, 3 September 2019 (UTC) Yes. It's in the RMS_Mauretania_(1906)#Retirement_and_scrapping section: "In May 1935 her furnishings and fittings were put up for auction by Hampton and Sons". 70.67.193.176 (talk) 02:31, 3 September 2019 (UTC) How about the RMS Olympic and the RMS Aquitania?2604:2000:7104:2F00:908F:C0CC:B3D3:2C1 (talk) 05:36, 3 September 2019 (UTC) Why are you too lazy to read? Poveglia (talk) 15:43, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

RNLI Dunkirk Memorial, Margate, England

What is the history of the anchor-shaped memorial in the park between Marine Drive and Marine Gardens in Margate, England, referred to as the "RNLI Dunkirk Memorial". It's an area of white-painted concrete, in the shape of an anchor, and can be seen on OpenStreetMap and on Google aerial imagery. I've also added it to Wikidata, as RNLI Dunkirk Memorial (Q67079532). When was it made/ unveiled, and by whom? Can anyone local take pictures, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:52, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

What I found, so far, is a photo of the anchor with the following explanatory text on a Margate Civic Society page:

"The above photograph was taken on 2nd June this year [2010] and shows an anchor design in concrete at the apex of the two paths meeting at the bottom of the gardens just a few yards from the Clock Tower. The design - which is about fifteen feet long - had been installed by TDC only a few weeks before the photograph was taken. But what was its maritime significance? An e-mail to Paul Verrall, the Council’s Parks & Open Spaces Development Manager yielded the prompt response that the anchor marks both the 150th anniversary of the Margate RNLI Lifeboat Station and also the part played by Margate in the successful evacuation from Dunkirk in 1940. Paul also tells me that it is proposed that ‘some old timbers of the Margate Harbour will be added to the anchor design with some mock-up groyne features’. It is hoped that the installation, which will also incorporate an information display board, will be completed in the summer."

"TDC" = Thanet District Council. See also Royal National Lifeboat Institution (including the subsection Dunkirk evacuation) as well as Little_Ships_of_Dunkirk#RNLI_lifeboats_at_Dunkirk. ---Sluzzelin talk 13:18, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Further reading: The Margate Lifeboat Lord Southborough and Dunkirk: A Personal Perspective - Margate Lifeboats.

Also a recent Twitter post by a local suggests that the memorial has been neglected since its installation: I have made a start on clearing the @RNLI memorial in #Margate - dedicated to the RNLI crews who went to Dunkirk.. Alansplodge (talk) 17:58, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm involved in that Twitter thread, and aware of the background: it's the specifics of the memorial I'm after. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:04, 3 September 2019 (UTC)