Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2016 November 25

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November 25

What do you call this situation?

Two school boys, call them Sam and Singh. Every day, Sam insults Singh. Real insults, like racist or scold his mother, not joking. One day Singh cannot take it anymore and beats Sam up. The teacher knows that Sam bullied Singh for a long time. So she choose not to punish Singh because punishing him would add to the bullying. Of course, under the law, both Sam and Singh are underage, but what if this situation happens between adults? Like abusive relationships. Or even communities facing discrimination.--Curious Cat On Her Last Life (talk) 06:59, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

See Provocation (legal) for the common-law position. Different jurisdictions will have different rules on the subject. Tevildo (talk) 07:58, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. I read it and confused over one thing. In the law, provocation is only for sudden single incidents? My thinking more about long term situation. --Curious Cat On Her Last Life (talk) 02:54, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Black rage (law) is also potentially relevant. (Or of interest anyway.) Amisom (talk) 08:57, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

See also Defense of infancy#Ages of criminal responsibility by country. In the UK, the schoolboys would have to be less than 10 years-old to be "underage". Alansplodge (talk) 11:29, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

That's true, but police are reluctant to prosecute children generally. 86.169.56.237 (talk) 11:34, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

That may be changing. A quick Google search revealed a couple of examples: School crime reports topped 30,000 in 2014 (England, Wales and Northern Ireland) and For More Teens, Arrests by Police Replace School Discipline (USA). Alansplodge (talk) 17:26, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

According to Defense of infancy, "10 in England, Wales and Northern Ireland; 12 in Scotland". Carbon Caryatid (talk) 21:13, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

Mea culpa. Alansplodge (talk) 17:42, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

That all sounds completely wrong to me. If the teacher knew bullying was happening they should have taken steps to stop it, and fairly coercive steps by the time of this it sounds like. And Singh should have been punished for beating a person up even if not so much because of the provocation. Dmcq (talk) 11:44, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

I agree with you, but traditionally many have had a "hands off" policy regarding bullying, trying to get the victim to "stand up for him/herself". Unfortunately, these days, with guns widely available to all in the US, this attitude has led to many school shootings here. StuRat (talk) 18:12, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

I mean after Singh whack Sam, then the teacher found out that Sam bullied Singh for a long time. Also depends on the culture. --Curious Cat On Her Last Life (talk) 02:54, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Stand-your-ground laws may also be relevant. StuRat (talk) 18:10, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

Elections in Israel: campaigning on Shabbat?

up== I know that all sorts of things on Shabbat are controversial, public transport, protest marches and so on. I'm trying to find any articles or content on election campaigning on Shabbat. Is it frowned upon? Does it happen? But strangely can't find anything. Can anybody help? Amisom (talk) 08:57, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

There is a prohibition on "work" on shabbos. Election campaigning is most definitely "work". Also, of course, campaigners who bother people on this day will just cause annoyance and turn people off from voting for their party. 86.169.56.237 (talk) 11:37, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm looking for sources about controversies that this issue has created. For example, transport restaurants radio and other such issues have caused public controversies. I'm interested to know whether there have been any similar public controversies around election campaigning, eg. proposed laws against it. Thanks. Amisom (talk) 13:13, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

The Israeli population is culturally diverse and the majority (including many Jews) don't observe the Judaic laws of Halakha with its numerous prohibitions on what constitutes "breaking the Sabbath." Whatever of Halakha isn't codified in civil law is a matter of personal choice. Other than the political parties whose candidates, representatives and platforms align with and observe Halakha, others on principle support religious pluralism and freedom of observance. Such parties would very likely campaign actively during the Shabbat, which hours coincide with the weekend. This would likely be received favorably by the sector of the electorate to whom they appeal. Alternatively, observant parties might successfully conduct parlor meetings at private homes and neighborhood halls with no commercial element. (Public media coverage, though, is to some extent restricted during the Shabbat.) None of this being newsworthy, it's unlikely to be reported in the media. -- Deborahjay (talk) 12:36, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

Much needs improving

In the summer of 2003 I visited an exhibition at the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich commemorating the 400th anniversary of the death of Queen Elizabeth I in 1603. On display were several paintings of Elizabeth, one of which, if I remember correctly, had in the background, in Latin, the sentence, "I have seen it all, and much needs improving". I have looked for this sentence in Latin for several years. Can any of you tell me what the Latin sentence might be, and in which painting of Elizabeth it appears? 86.142.14.38 (talk) 21:29, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

Presumably it would be in David Starkey's catalogue of the exhibition. [1]. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 22:56, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

There could be lots of ways to say "much needs improving", but "I have seen it all" would probably be something like "omnia vidi" or "omnia vidimus" (assuming the "royal we"), but I don't see any relevant results for those... Adam Bishop (talk) 00:35, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Might you mean the Plimpton Sieve Portrait of Queen Elizabeth I, which includes the Italian text "TVTTO VEDO & / MOLTO MANCHA" ("I see everything, and much is lacking")? (Or maybe another sieve portrait by George Gower, with the same motto above the globe, here)! ---Sluzzelin talk 00:49, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Yes, by Jove, I think that's it. Thank you very much, indeed! 86.142.14.38 (talk) 17:29, 27 November 2016 (UTC)