Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2011 April 11

Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

April 11

I have a question about greek god Zeus

Can someone tell me the myth and symbolism about Zeus controlling thunder? Thanks! Neptunekh2 (talk) 03:47, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

What can be said that would not be circular? Zeus controls thunder because he is the sky-god. See Dyeus. —Tamfang (talk) 04:08, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

A common piece of symbolism is that of Zeus sitting on top of Mount Olympus, casting thunderbolts at errant humans. Is that the sort of thing you're looking for? --TammyMoet (talk) 11:55, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

A companion to World Mythology tells that Zeus was god of thunder and lightning and ruler of all the gods in Greek myth, something he had to fight for.--Whiteguru (talk) 09:09, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Did any countries create hereditary peerages in their colonies?

As far as I can tell the British didn't, and I wondered whether that was the case with everyone. 74.96.104.206 (talk) 06:41, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

French Canada had a few, I believe. The Lords Proprietors of Carolina were authorized by their charter to create titles, but (it seems) never did. —Tamfang (talk) 08:31, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

How about the Empire of Brazil? —Tamfang (talk) 08:46, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

The French colonial Baron de Longueuil (a suburb of Montreal) still exists and is often mentioned when Canadian nobility comes up. --JGGardiner (talk) 08:53, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

What about the Earl Mountbatten of Burma? Adam Bishop (talk) 09:43, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

That was an earldom in the Peerage of the United Kingdom. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 10:05, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Adam Bishop -- see Victory_title#British_Empire... -- AnonMoos (talk) 11:43, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh, right. There is also Lord Black of Crossharbour, but that's not a hereditary peerage either. Adam Bishop (talk) 16:11, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

74.96.104.206 -- technically baronetcies of Scotland are known as baronetcies "of Nova Scotia", but they weren't very meaningfully colonial... AnonMoos (talk) 11:48, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

You may be interested in the patroonships of New Netherland during the Dutch rule. These weren't hereditary peerages, but the patroons did act as feudal-like lords with manorial rights. Neutrality^talk 10:52, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Turgot

What was Turgot's social rationale for opposing French involvement? And what was his post-retirement career? Is there any details available? --HistorianDrancophine (talk) 17:23, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

French involvement in what? --Saddhiyama (talk) 18:07, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm assuming the question refers to Turgot's opposition against France's involvement (meaning support) in the American Revolution. See Anne-Robert-Jacques_Turgot,_Baron_de_Laune#American_Revolution. (This doesn't answer the question, just for the sake of reference and clarity). ---Sluzzelin talk 18:16, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

This is dated but seems to answer your question:

Turgot had been a warm, and a very early, friend to the independence of America; which he welcomed in the interests of mankind, and not least for the sake of England. But his first duty was to his own country; and he combated the proposal of a warlike policy with an earnestness inspired by his profound conviction that the whole future of France was involved in the decision which her rulers were now called upon to take. His reply to Vergennes cost him some weeks of thought and labour. It was a masterly production; a voluminous treatise, three quarters of a century in advance of his age, on the philosophy of colonial administration, and at the same time a powerful and persuasive official minute upon the question of the hour. England, (so the argument ran,) would in all likelihood lose her colonies; or, if she succeeded in reconquering them, she would be condemned thenceforward to hold them in subjection at an expense of money, and military resources, which would bind her over, under the most stringent penalties, to keep the peace with her European neighbours and rivals, and more especially with France. Whatever result might ensue, France would be the gainer; and to choose such a moment for a wanton and gratuitous attack upon England was an immeasurable folly, and a signal crime. The English ministry had done nothing whatever to invite or provoke a war; and every plan of aggression on the part of France was forbidden by moral reasons, and by considerations of national self-interest more imperious still. The King, (said the Comptroller-General,) was acquainted with the condition of his finances, and knew, better than anyone, what sacrifices and efforts were required to stave off bankruptcy even in time of peace. The first cannon-shot fired against a foreign enemy would scatter to the winds all His Majesty's gracious designs for the better government of France, and for the amelioration in the hard lot of her unhappy peasantry. "An English war," (such was Turgot's conclusion,)" should be shunned as the greatest of all misfortunes; since it would render impossible, perhaps for ever, a reform absolutely necessary to the prosperity of the State and the solace of the people." [1] (1907) Neutrality^talk 10:59, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Edmonton Journal Newspaper Article July 1996

I am looking for an Edmonton Journal Article from July 23, 1996 entitled "Kid writers mix it with 'names' by Geoff McMaster, an Edmonton Journal Staff Writer. I attempted to find it, but could not seem to get into their archives. Help would be appreciated! Thanks a lot! InkPulser (talk) 18:21, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

You'll want to ask this question at Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange, which is designed to handle exactly this sort of issue. --Jayron32 18:53, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Women students in Moorish Islamic Spain?

I have heard, that women where allowed to study at the universities in Muslim Al-Andalus Spain during the middle ages. Is this correct? If so, did they truly study with the male students in place at the unicersities, or did they simply study from home? The islamic separation of the sexes seem to make it unlikely that women where allowed to study in Muslim Spain during the middle ages, but I heard it once, during a discussion about the society of the Spanish moors. Perhaps I misunderstod it, or perhaps it was simply incorrect. Can anyone tell me if there where women at the universitites of moorish Spain? Thank you. --Aciram (talk) 22:10, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

You can see one version of a woman publicly involved in Islamic learning (not in Spain, though) in volume 5, tale 107 ("The Man's Dispute with the Learned Woman Concerning the Relative Excellence of Male and Female") of Burton's translation of 1001 Nights. Scroll about a quarter of the way down page http://burtoniana.org/books/1885-Arabian%20Nights/HTML/part50.html . She feels free to discuss some things pretty frankly, but she "seated herself behind a curtain" before doing so... AnonMoos (talk) 00:12, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

We have a discussion of women's education in early Islamic countries at Madrasah#Female_education, some of which is relevant to your question, though it's not specific to Spain:

According to the Sunni scholar Ibn Asakir in the 12th century, there were opportunities for female education in the medieval Islamic world, writing that women could study, earn ijazahs (academic degrees), and qualify as scholars and teachers. This was especially the case for learned and scholarly families, who wanted to ensure the highest possible education for both their sons and daughters...While it was not common for women to enroll as students in formal classes, it was common for women to attend informal lectures and study sessions at mosques, madrasahs and other public places...While women accounted for no more than one percent of Islamic scholars prior to the 12th century, there was a large increase of female scholars after this. In the 15th century, Al-Sakhawi devotes an entire volume of his 12-volume biographical dictionary Daw al-lami to female scholars, giving information on 1,075 of them.

--Antiquary (talk) 19:46, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

How very interesting. Are there any links of these famel sholars? Have any of them articles on wikipedia? But what I am interested in is not necessarily the possibility for women to study as such, but to study (and teach) alongside male students at the universities. They could, after all, study at home, and work as teachers for female students in their homes. --Aciram (talk) 22:17, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

There were multiple waves of Muslims which swept into Spain. Some groups were more tolerant (of women, religious minorities, etc.), than others. There was a group starting in the 12th century and ending in the 13th century (the Almohad Caliphate) which was more akin to the Taliban, so I doubt if female education was allowed during that period. StuRat (talk) 20:20, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Here is an accessible source -- not scholarly, but the names it gives may lead you to more solid references. BrainyBabe (talk) 14:59, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. How extraordinary that Walladah bint Mustakfi could hold a salon. How could she socialize with men in an islamic society? I thought it was forbidden? The link is usefull, but not entirely clear; while saying that women where respected as scholars, it does not say if they where educated at home rather than alongside male students at the universities. --Aciram (talk) 22:17, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't have any detailed information on the situation in Moorish Spain (Al-Andaluz). Socialising between the sexes is certainly not forbidden in all Islamic societies. Flirting and gossiping would be discouraged, but merely being in the same public space, to learn and discuss serious matters together, under the watchful eye of an instructor, is at the opposite end of the spectrum. Try searching for books on the history of the Arabs. BrainyBabe (talk) 08:07, 16 April 2011 (UTC)