Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2010 June 30

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June 30

Investing in Chinese currency

The newspapers are afloat with hints being dropped by the Chinese government that they are going to allow their currency to float more. In very succinct terms: I highly doubt the currency will do anything other than skyrocket in price. Um, what's the best way to exchange my current accounts into Chinese currency, and do it ASAP? I have ~$10-15K I can play with (not a lot, I know, but don't forget the Lesson of the widow's mite, less means more to some people!) Magog the Ogre (talk) 01:27, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

• The simplest way to do it would be to go to the downtown main branch of whatever bank your money's in and tell them you want to get some Chinese currency. Most large banks in large cities have currency exchange windows in their main branch. Ideally, they'll let you keep it in your savings account rather than having to give you paper currency. If they give you paper currency, you may want to invest in a safe deposit box and keep it at the main branch so that a strong breeze doesn't ruin your investment. If your bank doesn't do currency exchange, my guess is that eTrade will let you invest in the Hong Kong Stock Exchange, but I've never done it, so I don't know. (Incidentally, I doubt it will skyrocket. The Economist has consistently and, to my mind, persuasively argued that the Chinese will let the renminbi rise gradually. But hey, it's hardly a bad investment, and I shouldn't be dispensing amateur investment advice anyway.) --M@rēino 02:32, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

This probably shouldn't be in a 'small'... The Chinese are still very much in control of their currency and are absolutely, positively NOT going to let it 'skyrocket' under any circumstances. They still make all of their money from exports, and would stand to gain nothing from increasing the price, and in fact as the price goes up they face more competition from other developing nations. Don't take our word for it, but *please please please* do more research before dumping all you have into the RMB. It surely won't tank, but it could very well take you a *long* time to see a decent appreciation in value vs. other investment choices (considering the cost of buying in and out of the investment). --144.191.148.3 (talk) 17:43, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

OR warning! In my admittedly limited experience (US$ <-> CDN$), I've found that major banks are terrible as far as exchange rates are concerned. Specialized foreign exchange retail outlets give you far better rates. They handle pretty much all the major currencies AFAIK, though I'm not sure about the yuan. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:01, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Everbank offers low conversion fees and Renminbi accounts in the United States. Marco polo (talk) 13:27, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Re: 144.x.x.x, The Chinese have this (and only this) to gain: the US is pretty pissed off about it. A lot of legislatorws are raising populist sentiment about jobs going overseas, and there's been heavy talk of adding China to the list of currency manipulators (meaning sanctions from US, which would hurt big time), and possibly bringing the same accusation before the WTO.

Re: Clarity, I work for a bank, and our rates are definitely not as good in one direction as the other. Magog the Ogre (talk) 22:20, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Aren't the rates equally bad in both directions? The commission is presumably the same, whichever direction the exchange is done in. (And it is commission, whether it is hidden in the exchange rate or set as an explicit fee.) --Tango (talk) 03:18, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

An alternative explanation I watched on CBC, a relatively reliable TV network, had an outside commenter opining that China's currency move was actually in response to the serious decline in the euro against the USD. The EU as a whole rivals the USA for trade volume with China, and the euro-area soveriegn debt problem was pushing the currency down far enough that it was seriously disrupting markets for Chinese exporters in a major customer base. A floating basket of currency values has started to make more sense. For a source, you would need to search cbc.ca for Amanda Lang's various programs and news segments over the last 10 days or so, she did a good interview with someone about this. Franamax (talk) 03:43, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Jesus Christ

Not a debating society
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Did Jesus Christ have cancer and committed suicide by doing everything that he know would bring his life to and end on the cross, presumably not a pleasant death but far more pleasant than dying of cancer? 71.100.2.98 (talk) 03:23, 30 June 2010 (UTC) Huh? Should I be looking under bridges for the answer? Bielle (talk) 03:32, 30 June 2010 (UTC) It is merely a logical question. People do not usually end their lives prior to natural death without some type of emotional or physical motivation. 71.100.2.98 (talk) 03:35, 30 June 2010 (UTC) If you believe Christian teachings, then Jesus sacrificed himself for humanity. If you don't believe Christian teachings, then the question doesn't really arise, since the evidence that the crucifixion took place at all is far from conclusive. --Tango (talk) 03:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC) 71.100.2.98 -- Unfortunately, your question was produced by pure abstract hypothetical speculation, apparently without taking into account any of the details of history, or the New Testament, or traditional Christian thought, and so has little relevance to any of them... AnonMoos (talk) 03:45, 30 June 2010 (UTC) Christianity teaches that, extremely simplified, Jesus willingly and knowingly forfeited his life for everybody else. My denomination teaches that Jesus loves us. While certainly there are many people who would not sacrifice themselves for people they love, there are many that would, and some who do. Assuming that Jesus did in fact love everybody, his motivation for sacrificing himself makes perfect logical sense to me. Now, if you disregard theology, then you are assuming that Jesus was just another man. It is fine that you are questioning his motivations, but there is absolutely no evidence, in scripture or not, to my knowledge that Jesus was terminally ill when he died. We cannot possibly provide any insight to your question without a time machine and a medical examination. Falconusp t c 04:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC) In that regard I live near a large cancer research center where people essentially come in hope of a cure but if their cancer is too far along or they do not fit one of the programs or the program they do fit is full or complete then they use to be put back out the door and told they did not need to come back, leaving the impression that they might be cured or in remission. In other cases (where lots of money stood to be gained by the center) euthanasia was in general turned over to the nurse in charge of anesthesia after signing the proper forms of course. It would seem then that a motive like securing allegiance to a body of religion was ripe for such a client. 71.100.2.98 (talk) 04:23, 30 June 2010 (UTC) ...and intentionally so in order to "start from scratch" and avoid following a line of thought which could amount to brainwashed. Why do you take "...all of the details of..." so called "...history..." as fact by basing it on something written over two thousand years ago that defies all of history's verifiable facts? 71.100.2.98 (talk) 04:03, 30 June 2010 (UTC) You presume then that he even existed. You can't claim the Bible to be fiction and claim that Jesus was a real figure in the same breath, since you are brining up "verifiable facts". Unanswerable, simple as that. Also, are all cancer deaths as bad as asphyxiation by crucifiction and torture? Are any? Even trolls need to eat sometimes. Aaronite (talk) 04:17, 30 June 2010 (UTC) This is a classic pattern! Bielle (talk) 04:17, 30 June 2010 (UTC) It would be if I was selling a particular point of view but I'm not selling but rather wondering why all the other religions seem to be doing very well without subscribing to the idea of dying on the cross as a method of saving people, except perhaps from making the same mistake. 71.100.2.98 (talk) 04:29, 30 June 2010 (UTC) If Jesus wanted to kill himself, he could have thrown himself off of a cliff, or drank poison, or used a sword, etc. Those would have saved him pain. From what I've read, crucifixion is incredibly painful. When you're nailed to a cross, you start losing blood, which induces an intense thirst. Those who were crucified also often had their eyes pecked out by crows. After a while, you have trouble breathing because of your own weight pressing on your chest. Thus, you also slowly suffocate. It's pure torture.--Best Dog Ever (talk) 04:27, 30 June 2010 (UTC) Never watched someone die of cancer, have you. All of that and more occurs from within. Even by any other method the sacrifice of one's own life for a religious purpose might need a little unspoken motivation. which 71.100.2.98 (talk) 04:31, 30 June 2010 (UTC) Just answer the question. 71.100.2.98 (talk) 04:35, 30 June 2010 (UTC) OK. No. OK?--Best Dog Ever (talk) 04:39, 30 June 2010 (UTC) Just answer the question. 71.100.2.98 (talk) 04:37, 30 June 2010 (UTC) There is no evidence in the Bible or anywhere else that this was the case. Enough already. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:41, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

buying a copy

I'm interested in buying a copy of an image. It's of an unknown woman's hand holding memorial ribbons. The ribbons were given to mourners at the memorial service for the eleven crewmembers who perished when the Deepwater Horizon exploded and sank. The image is courtesy of the Associated Press. When I tried their website and Pictopia, I didn't have any luck. Where can I order a copy of the image for personal use?24.90.202.208 (talk) 03:28, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

If the Associated Press own the image, then you need to contact the Associated Press. --Tango (talk) 03:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The photographer appears to be Rogelio V.Solis, according to this report. (Scroll down to third photograph.) If you have a Twitter account, it would appear you can reach him at: @rsolis. Bielle (talk) 03:49, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I clicked on the report you referred me to. But I'd like to find a website where I can order a copy of the aforementioned image. Where is there one?24.90.202.208 (talk) 07:28, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

What Bielle is saying is that your best bet is to contact the photographer directly via his Twitter account. He may still hold the copyright and thus be able to sell you a copy direct. If he's assigned the copyright to AP, he might still be able to help you. --Viennese Waltz ^talk 07:47, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Competition from the Chinese and other international markets

I've been trying to find references that deal with the above but have been unlucky. I'm trying to find references that discuss the importance of decreasing labor costs, enlarging a customer base, and using more advanced technology in order to compete more effectively with the Chinese and other international manufacturers. I'm looking at this from an American perspective. Like I said, I've been trying but have been running into problems with the signal to noise ratio in the searches that I run with Google. Can anyone help? Thanks, Dismas|^(talk) 04:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Since you’ve started with a conclusion – that decreasing labor costs, enlarging a customer base and using more advanced technology will somehow convince American workers to accept wages proportionate to their productivity – but can’t find any evidence to support your preconceived notion, perhaps you should rethink the premises. Just a thought. DOR (HK) (talk) 09:29, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Your best bet IMO is to subscribe to The Economist and get access to their search archives. I'll take a swing through when I get a chance. Harvard Business Review would have lots too, but I haven't subscribed to that in quite a while (I lost interest in what the latest wrong idea was).

As to your premises, they are indeed a little off. The endpoint is actually total factor productivity. Simply pushing down labour costs is a bandaid solution, not least because you simply cannot hire someone in the US and hand them $10 a day. And if you source sub-components from China, you get variable quality and the odd bit of lead paint and poisonous milk. However, chasing cheaper labour has been done for a long time, viz the maquiladoras along the Mexican-US border. You would also want to look at business process outsourcing where routine activities are pushed off to areas with matching skills. The latest Economist discusses legal-process outsourcing. Driving down labour costs within America itself does happen though - witness the automobile companies establishing greenfield plants in the southern states with right-to-work (open shop) laws and the concentration of meat-packing industries into vast plants which pay dirt for wages, often earned by recent immigrants.

Enlarging a customer base, that's a bit of a dead end. American companies have always been very good at becoming multinationals. I once worked for an American company that in 1990 started a "Vision 2000" program on how to move from being a multinational to being a global enterprise. They still pretty much own the product space.

Using advanced technology is also an American strength and always has been. Let's say, oh, nuclear weapons and Predator drones? Or industrial laser-cutters and the immense productivity surge in the 90's (that's the 1990's for you young folk) that resulted from investment in information technology. The interesting theme there is the very capable way in which China has limited foreign firms to local partnerships which have to transfer the technology rather than just importing key components.

Individual firms do keep trying to compete in their markets of choice. Kodak kept trying to make camera film for quite a long time. If the labour cost component is large, they fail or move overseas. You need to look for examples where firms have concentrated on their skills and outsourced the things that anyone can do to where it gets done the cheapest. Xerox might be a good example, they are still a big name in copiers but outsource their components. Or Apple of course, which specialises in ideas and cool designs. Or Google, which buys whoever's computers and sticks ideas on top of them to make a fortune. Genome sequencing and medical devices too.

And that is the major theme, the US economy has for decades been moving to higher-value industries and services, like aerospace, (erghh) banking, and motion pictures. User:SteveBaker is a Brit who works in Texas, making video games. Rather than actually make the product, they design and market the product and struggle with the balance between cheap components and high-quality components. Again, HBR would have good case studies on this trend.

I'm not sure whether that long ramble will be helpful or not. Basically, if you want to use advanced technology you need well-educated and capable people to do it, but if you drive down your labour costs those people go work somewhere else. I think you need to focus on business magazines for your research. Franamax (talk) 19:52, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

JFK in Dallas 22.11.1963

Please do not cross-post questions to multiple desks. I have removed this question; if anyone wishes to help, it can be found at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous#JFK in Dallas 22.11.1963. Warofdreams talk 09:16, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

UK planning objections and appeals

Where can I find information about what actual criteria are used to assess a planning objection or planning appeal in the UK? All I've had from my LA is a pathetic flimsy leaflet with only half a dozen words vaguely hinting at what the criteria might be. Where can I find more information about what features or content are relevant to succesful objections or appeals please? Thanks 92.29.114.87 (talk) 10:50, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Local authorities vary wildly in the information they provide. This is one of the better ones, and you should be able to find the information you need somewhere there, but note that the criteria vary depending on a number of local factors, e.g. conservation areas, green belt, local development schemes, etc.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:01, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

There is a UK govt website here - http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/public/ which may have the information you require.

That said, Planning matters in the UK can be quite complex as Shnatavira notes , I would add 'historc building' to the list of factors though, so your best bet bet might be to seek professional advice. Please note, the reference desk can't give legal advice. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 11:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

As well as endorsing the advice by Shantaviraj and Sfan, I can offer some general advice as a former local authority planning officer myself - but it's complicated, and depends on where you live as well as what you intend to do. Are you doing something as simple as building a porch, or seeking to change the use of an entire building, or putting up a new building? Is it in a town, in open countryside, on green belt land, in an area covered by an environmental designation... etc. etc. There are also some differences between the systems in England, Scotland, and Wales. All will be guided by general principles of "sustainable development", but how that is interpreted will vary greatly between local authorities. The basic principle everywhere, though, is that development (which includes "change of use") should be in accordance with policies and criteria in the "local development plan" (which may be called that, or a "local plan", or something else) - and in making any decisions, weight will be given both to an old but approved plan, and to a newer but not-yet-approved plan. Your local council website will almost certainly contain the text of its local plan, and maps, or if that fails there will be copies for inspection in your local council offices or library. But the best advice, almost certainly, is to talk to one of the planning staff in your local council office - by phone, or by a meeting if necessary. They will be able to spell out to you exactly the criteria that they will take into account in making any recommendations on your proposals - and speaking to them at an early stage, and taking note of their advice, will definitely save you money and time later on. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:26, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

PS - You may get some useful guidance from this page, which (for England) links to official government statements of what is and is not acceptable in policy terms. Each statement will be taken into account in any local decisions or appeal decisions, depending on what the proposal actually is. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:48, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm not intending to do anything - I'm trying to stop my crazy neighbour from putting up a shanty-town extension an inch away and right in front of my house. Its disgraceful there isnt a simple list of criteria anywhere. It is all kept so very secret. 92.29.114.87 (talk) 11:58, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Nothing is "secret", but it can be complicated. Here is guidance on what people should do to consult neighbours on planning proposals. There is general guidance on house extensions here and a walk-through here. If your neighbour's proposal fits within those criteria it is likely to be "permitted development", which does not require an application for planning permission (unless it is in a conservation area, or similar). However, if it falls outside those criteria, it will require planning permission from the local council. If he/she is undertaking work without having first obtained that permission, you should speak to the local planning department - specifically, the planning enforcement officer. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:07, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The walk through, although needlessly spectacular, appears to be about "designated land" only. 92.15.3.46 (talk) 18:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Only the first two pages are about "designated land" - the remaining sections are about other land. (Don't know why they do it that way, but anyway... the summary makes it clearer that that is the case.) Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:06, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

As long as they don't keep the necessary information on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door sayinmg "Beware of the Leopard"! -- AnonMoos (talk) 12:31, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

They don't do that. Seriously. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:33, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

And, as always with this stuff in the UK, if you can get an appointment at your local Citizens Advice Bureau, it's usually worth it. One of the things the CAB is there for is helping people get access to free legal advice and guidance following convoluted regulations. 86.164.57.20 (talk) 12:57, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

CAB is a good idea, but you should also be able to get help from the council itself. Phone or email the planning department and ask to speak to the planning officer considering the case. Keep trying. Early morning is often a good time, before they go out to site visits. Check out who has been notified of the application and get your neighbours together to write a joint letter. Itsmejudith (talk) 17:40, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Good advice - and, if that fails, you should also contact your local ward councillor, who is there to act on your behalf with council officers when necessary. Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:08, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

It is worth pointing out that planning is a very emotive subject in England. In some cases even major infrastructure plans can get held up for years in planning inquiries because a few NIMBY concerns, and many perfectly acceptable plans (from a planning point of view) for house extensions are objected to, simply "on principle". In my opinion, the OP's use of words like "shanty-town extension", "an inch away" and "right in front of my house" is just the type of language which suggest a NIMBY objection rather than a reasoned objection based on the planning policies applicable to their case. I really do hope the OP does not use that type of language in their planning objection and instead consult a solicitor. Astronaut (talk) 20:29, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Clever of you to pass judgement on the basis of zero facts and evidence. 92.24.187.92 (talk) 22:44, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Having seen both side of this kind of argument (where your objections are seemingly ignored, and where your plans seem to raise spurious objections from neighbours) I'm not passing judgement at all. I'm simply reminding you to choose the words you use rather carefully. Astronaut (talk) 02:57, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Hmm. In my experience, a letter from a solicitor on a planning matter like this - unless it raises any valid legal points, which is unlikely - will be seen as unnecessarily provocative by planning officers (and councillors, and your neighbours), unhelpful, and is likely to be money wasted. Better to go down the route suggested by others above - contact the planning officers (including the enforcement officer if appropriate), go through the CAB if necessary, and contact the ward councillor. Much more likely to get results, and much cheaper. Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:02, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

If you mean they make their decisions on sentiment, then that's disgraceful. 92.24.187.92 (talk) 22:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

How did you read that into what I said? They make their decisions - or should do - based on the policies set out in local planning documents, which themselves are based on national government policy, as I've already set out. However, obviously, different local politicians may have differing interpretations of what should be done in different circumstances - that's why we have systems to elect them and ensure they are accountable. If they have taken decisions in any other way, you should indeed think about engaging a solicitor and making an approach to the Local Government Ombudsman. Ghmyrtle (talk) 06:30, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

I would observe that there is a balance between the planning advice given by the council employees, and the decisions made by elected councillors. The advice has to be based on the clauses in the regulations, although there is inevitably a qualitative element of that given the competing demands of various stakeholders.

I would also note that there is a clear range of processes in terms of application, withdrawal of application, rejection, re-application etc that can become challenging, and it does at times appear that the advice given by planners to developers makes best use of the opportunities within that process to deliver a favourable outcome. I would counter your suggestion of impropriety by opening up the point that it's just effective use of the rules. As an example it's permissible to withdraw an application very close to the due date, having flushed out objections, and that resets the clock on future applications. The developer has had the opportunity to identify objections and counter them in the next application, so it strengthens their position.

All rules have loopholes. As already observed the best way to challenge the development is to address the points in the guidance in a dispassionate and unemotional way.

ALR (talk) 08:47, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

New Martinsvile Glass, Dates and Designers ?

Hi, I was wondering if there were any experts on New Martinsville Glass pieces from the mid 1930's,

I'm trying to add some information to the image in the article here Hostmaster_(New_Martinsville_Glass) and for the relevant contributor's Nomoreforme uploads.

The assistance of the reference desk in getting more specific datings ( and designer names) would be appreciated.

Sfan00 IMG (talk) 10:50, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Matters such as those you want to know about are usually treated in specialized books written for the collectors' market—in this case, the one cited in the first note in the article looks like the fullest treatment of the company's output. It's possible that someone reading this page may have the work, but you may need to visit a library. Deor (talk) 15:18, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

What are "household effect" in context of family law?

As asked above. Such as in section 1361a of the German Civil Code "...Allocation of household effects when spouses are living apart..." Thank you so much.

124.121.108.99 (talk) 12:22, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I hazard a guess it refers to the goods within the house - the furniture, white goods, cutlery & crockery etc - and is speaking about their division between a couple who are splitting up. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:31, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

That's how I've heard the phrase used in US English (compare with personal effects). However, I doubt the German Civil Code is written in English, so to get the actual meaning as intended it would probably be better to examine the words used in the official German version. (slight inaccuracies may have been introduced by the translator.) -- 140.142.20.229 (talk) 18:09, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The original says "Haushaltsgegenstände", literally "household articles". "Household effects" is a good translation which does not introduce misleading connotations. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 20:29, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Historical comparison of Portugal and Spain

Can we say that Portugal had less cruel history (in terms of internal and external policies) and less bloody build-up of empire than Spain? 109.237.121.80 (talk) 14:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Not without references. Googlemeister (talk) 14:56, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

This is a subjective question, as it is somewhat difficult to quantify cruelty or bloodiness. I think that we can say that Portugal simply had less empire than Spain, at least until around 1900, and therefore perhaps less cruelty and blood, but maybe not less per square mile or kilometer. The Portuguese bandeirantes were probably directly or indirectly responsible for the death of millions of indigenous people in the interior of Brazil (through enslavement, disease, and slaughter), much like the Spanish conquistadores. Furthermore, the Portuguese carried on a particularly brutal trans-Atlantic slave trade to supply their Brazilian plantations with labor. Brazilian slaves had a higher death rate from overwork and disease than slaves in some other regions. In Africa and Asia before the mid-19th century, the Portuguese were more interested in setting up trading posts than conquering territory, though its trading posts in Africa were deeply implicated in the slave trade. However, from the late 19th century, as Spain lost nearly all of its remaining possessions, Portugal carried out a particularly brutal form of colonial rule in Angola in particular, followed by the even more brutal Portuguese Colonial War. So the history of the Portuguese empire arguably had its share of cruelty and blood. As for Portugal's internal history, it is very generally similar to that of Spain, except that Portugal experienced fewer civil wars in the 19th and early 20th centuries. However, like Spain, Portugal was ruled by a fascist government (in Portugal, the Estado Novo) for much of the 20th century. Marco polo (talk) 15:40, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The Portuguese were EXTRAORDINARILY cruel as colonial masters of Mozambique, for starters. While the numbers of victims and extent of territory was greater for Spain, qualitatatively Portugal has as horrible a colonial legacy as any -- and that's saying a lot. 63.17.72.210 (talk) 03:50, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

---

The Portuguese empire was under Spain from 1580-1640, by the way. In the first hundred years, the main Spanish effort was devoted to conquering and administering huge areas of land spread over significant parts of two continents, while the main Portuguese effort was devoted to establishing strategic coastal forts and island bases in the Indian Ocean area, and imposing effective Portuguese control over all long-distance sea trade there, so the two empires were quite different at that period... AnonMoos (talk) 00:44, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Economic index

What would be the correct economic index or measurement to determine the change in (commercial real estate) rental prices from one year to another? For example, if Tenant A paid $X monthly rent in the year 2010 ... that rent would be expected to rise to $Y in the year 2011. That sort of thing. I started looking up some different terms -- such as inflation, consumer price index, etc. -- but then I realized that I had no idea where to even begin (as I am very unfamiliar with these economic terms). So, what's the best term that covers what I am looking for? Also, where would I find the exact numbers for this economic index? Is there a website or some federal agency that publishes such numbers? I am referring to the USA, by the way. Thanks. (64.252.65.146 (talk) 19:24, 30 June 2010 (UTC))

If its looking to the future, then it would be a forecast. 92.24.187.92 (talk) 22:48, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, thanks ... but using which economic index? (64.252.65.146 (talk) 23:04, 30 June 2010 (UTC))

I think the consumer price index, published by the Bureau of Labor Statistics at the U.S. Department of Labor, is the best-known inflation index in the U.S. The CPI includes rent, so if you just want to know how rental costs have changed, you can find that in the tables for the CPI at the BLS website. The BLS also publishes several other inflation indexes used for various purposes. Many economists make forecasts for where they think the CPI will be at points in the future. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:17, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The US Urban Consumer Price Index for housing is here [[1]]. Depending on where the property is, your performance may vary by a huge amount. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:07, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Great. Thanks to all! I appreciate the input. Thank you! (64.252.65.146 (talk) 19:03, 3 July 2010 (UTC))

The OP asked for a "commercial real estate" price index, not consumer. Try Moodys/REAL Commercial Property Price Index (CPPI) Paulscrawl (talk) 19:39, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Who said "Bullshit, love is the only weapon with which I've got to fight."

Who said this quote? "Bullshit, love is the only weapon with which I've got to fight. I've got a whole lot of weapons to fight! I've got my claws, I've got cutlasses, I've got guns, I've got dynamite, I've got a whole lot to fight! I'll fight! I'll fight! I will fight! I will fight! I will fight! I will fight!"

Its also used at the start of the Alabama 3 song "Mao Tse Tung Said" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.98.94.70 (talk) 19:55, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Various people online say it is from a speech by Jim Jones. If the meaning isn't clear, immediately before the bit you've quoted he says, "Love is the only weapon? Shit. Bullshit. Martin Luther King died with love. Kennedy died talking about something he couldn’t understand, some kind of generalized love and he never even backed it up. He fucked up! Bullshit, love is the only weapon with which I’ve got to fight."

I cannot verify that this is the case, but it seems to be the consensus of the internet. Since people seem to be quoting from a spoken recording, and not from something written down, there seems to be some disagreement as to whether it is "cutlasses" or "compasses", although "cutlasses" makes more sense. 86.164.57.20 (talk) 20:17, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The anon's above comment is . Magog the Ogre (talk) 01:28, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Which bit? The bit where I say I can't verify it? The bit where I say this is what various people online are saying? Can you find a decent source? Because I tried and failed, which is why I posted what I had found so far with lots of disclaimers. 86.164.57.20 (talk) 01:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

this site from San Diego State U. has transcripts of many tapes of Jim Jones giving speeches, sermons, speaking on the radio, &c. I didn't find the quote in any of transcripts I checked (more or less at random), but for someone with a yen to really dig, there might be pay dirt. Some jerk on the Internet (talk) 17:52, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Two musical groups from the 1990s used a clip from the speech as prologue to songs Concrete Blonde on the song Jonestown on album Mexican Moon. And Machines of Loving Grace on Gilt (album), I think on the song Serpico, both albums credit the sample to Jim Jones. 76.22.140.195 (talk) 17:22, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Google either failed to properly crawl and index the site listed above, or it's not transcribed, or it's not from Jim Jones. But the audio does exist on YouTube, and it says it's from a Jim Jones. "Audio recording of Comrade Jim Jones speaking at a crisis level meeting (White Night) of the communist People's Temple Agricultural Project in Guyana." If you can compare the speech with other known, verified recordings, you may be able to tell if it really is him or not. ^Avic_ennasis @ 20:24, 23 Tamuz 5770 / 5 July 2010 (UTC) 20:24, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Something blue

I'm not sure if this belongs here or at the Languages desk; if it is the latter, I apologize.

I was rewatching The Big Bang recently, and realized that while I had heard the phrase "something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue" before, I did not know either the origin of the phrase or what the four somethings originally were. Does anyone else know? NW (Talk) 21:47, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Of course we have an article (though not an especially useful one). There's also information here, here and here. Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:28, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone really "stopped the presses", why

Has anyone really stopped the presses to insert a front page headline that is 10000x more inportant than the whole rest of the paper, when the presses were already rolling (ie literally a "stop the presses!") what were the cases? 92.230.68.216 (talk) 22:20, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't have to be 10000x more important, just important enough to warrant the cost and delay of throwing away all the papers that have already been printed and starting again. "Stopping the presses" can also refer to delaying the start of printing in order to get an important article finished. There is sometimes space left when the paper is typeset to fit in late stories, which I guess they'd fill with an advert or something if there weren't any late stories. --Tango (talk) 22:36, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't mean delays, but literally stopping running presses already churning out the next day's papers (then throwing away the ones already printed, delaying distribution until new copy is typeset, etc). can you think of actual, specific examples of that, and what news warranted it? 92.230.66.27 (talk) 23:05, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

On the night of the 2000 U.S. presidential election, many newspapers "stopped the presses" as the TV networks declared George Bush the winner after 2 a.m. EST, then retracted their call around 4 a.m. One paper I know printed a new cover for the single-sale edition, then sent people to every retailer and vending machine they could find to wrap the new front page around the old one! -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:08, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

News sources on the internet do that all the time, of course. They don't have to stop the presses, though, they just rewrite the story in-place. In the days when newspapers were the only major media and were highly competitive within a given city, they might stop a press run, or issue an "extra", in order to try and beat their rivals with their "scoop". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:14, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Two recent U.S. examples: Several papers literally stopped the presses while already in circulation and ordered back the distribution trucks etc when the news broke, around 3 a.m. (Eastern time), that all but one of the entrapped victims had died in the Sago Mine Disaster (2006). Some of the media had been printing that the miners had been found alive. [2] Apparently, the Boston Globe literally stopped its presses when Ted Kennedy's death was reported around 1.30 am (Eastern time). [3]. ---Sluzzelin talk 04:02, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Note that even if they do "stop the presses", it doesn't mean that they have to discard the copies already printed. In effect they're just creating a new edition. So maybe that day 50,000 people get the 2nd edition and 75,000 are lucky get the 2½th edition with the change, both distributed to whoever the 2nd edition normally goes to. Of course they could choose to dump the already-printed papers, but it's a separate decision.

The Toronto Sun usually has a front cover rather than a front page, by which I mean that it typically just contains a headline and photo, other stuff pointing to the inside of the paper, and no body text. I remember that one day the front cover showed a photo of Leonid Brezhnev and the headline BREZHNEV DIES. And while I don't usually read the Sun, I looked at that issue -- and there was nothing else inside. The headline was the entire story. I don't know, but I suspect that this may well have been a case of stopping the presses.

--Anonymous, 04:08 UTC, July 1, 2010.

See [4]. Various sources at Google Books say that is is exceedingly rare [5] for anyone to yell "Stop the presses" (except when they are broken, there is a grievous or libellous error, which is likely to result in the responsible person getting fired, important sports results or someone caught in the mechanism.) Papers used to put out several editions a day as well as "Extras," like in the movies when the newsboy on the streetcorner yells "Extra! Extra! Read all about it!" Edison (talk) 03:07, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Years ago, the London Daily Telegraph (and others too?) had a small box on the front page headed "Latest News". Often it would be blank, but sometimes a the key points of a breaking news story would be crudely printed into the box. In that way they could "stop press" without changing the front page layout. Alansplodge (talk) 16:32, 2 July 2010 (UTC)