Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2009 May 27

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May 27

Daniel Arap Moi's wife Lena

At what year was Lena Moi (Daniel Arap Moi's ex-wife) born in. Daniel Arap Moi is a former national leader of Kenya from 1978-2002 from his aging of 54 to 78, and after that Mwai Kibaki took over moi. DA Moi marry Lena at 1950 and left Lena in 1974 when Mr Moi was 50. Lena Moi die in 2004 was said to be in her mid-70s, then this makes her born between 1926 and 1929, would Lena's birthyear be best as 1927? And also is Lena Moi Non-African (white) or is she native African (black)?--69.233.255.146 (talk) 00:31, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

• And mois have total of 8 kids but how many males (sons) and how many females (daughters). The youngest one is Gideon Moi born in 1964 but what around the oldest's birthyear. Daniel was 26 when he was marry then oldest child of Daniel's is it around by 1952?--69.233.255.146 (talk) 00:34, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Government departments non-profit?

Are government departments considered non-profit organizations? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.17.161.165 (talk) 02:30, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I would say "non-profit organization" implies non-governmental. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:34, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

The "organization" part usually excludes government - a government department is an operational department of the entity, being government. It is not inconceivable, though, that a government-backed body could be regarded as a non-profit organization. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 02:37, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

"Non-profit" or "not-for-profit" are designations applied for tax purposes. Government departments don't incur tax liabilities whatever they do, so the question does not arise. // BL \\ (talk) 03:00, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Although the government is somewhat like a nonprofit organisation: as you get tax credit for giving to nonprofits, if you give the government money you'll have to pay less in taxes :-) Nyttend (talk) 05:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

It depends a bit on what you mean by "department". In Australia there's a number of Government Business Enterprises that are owned by the Federal Government but operate at arms length from direct government control and compete in the market place alongside other companies (although some have virtual monopolies). Some of them, such as Australia Post do all they can to make as much profit as they can. Others, like Medibank Private are non-profit, meaning that they're not prevented from making money but they're supposed to plough all their profits back into the business rather than holding significant cash reserves. -- JackofOz (talk) 06:59, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Wrong pilot credited with Bf 110 first flight

Reference: [1] the "early variants" section. Numerous sources have over the years quoted one particular source who's research was shoddy. My father, Rudolf Opitz, has always said that Dr. Herman Wurster (Chief Test Pilot of the Messerschmitt factory at the time) had the honor of making the first flight in the Bf 110 on 12 May 1936. I have my father's pilot logbooks which show that he was practicing spot landings at Darmstadt and Wiesbaden on 12 May 1936(after just recently having soloed in powered aircraft). I also have obtained a copy of Dr. Wurster's pilot logbook page from 12 May 1936 where it shows conclusively that indeed Dr. Wurster made the first flight in the Bf 110.

How do we get this fixed?? As far as I can tell, I have a primary source in my father who says he didn't do it. I have his logs and Dr. Wurster's logs which apparently makes me guilty of "original research". Both of these seem to disqualify me from making a change in the article. I have gotten one web site to change this item on their Bf 110 page: [2] What do I need to do to get this piece of absolutely shoddy research overturned? Or will Wikipedia be content to go on publishing the historically incorrect falsehood?MRO50 (talk) 05:12, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

It is very simple and straightforward. Get a reliable source to publish the truth, based on the documents you cite. Then the right pilot will be credited. Is your father still living? My regards. Edison (talk) 06:06, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, he is still alive. He is 98, and turns 99 in August. He suffers from very poor vision and hearing, but otherwise is in pretty good health for his age. He still gets around with just a cane.MRO50 (talk) 13:03, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

acepilots.com is a secondary source but not reliable as it is self-published. There are no details of the credentials of the author(s) of the website. Going by the text "... mistakenly credit the first flight to Rudolf Opitz, who has stated on numerous occasions that this honor belonged...", where were the statements made? Jay (talk) 08:51, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

As he is still alive, and has complained vocally about this poor research job for the last 20 - 30 years, he has made the statements in a variety of places and venues. At one point he even wrote William Green (the person that we believe is the one who is quoted by all of the other misinformed authors) and the German Aerokurier magazine about this issue probably at least 20 years ago. This was when Dr. Wurster was still alive. Green and Aerokurier were basically arrogant, and replied to the effect "Tough, we have our own sources." They did not even bother to check with Dr. Wurster. My father has always let his accomplishments speak for themselves, and is also a victim of someone else claiming that they did something which was actually done by my father. All he wants is for history to be recorded correctly the way it actually happened. Just because William Green wrote it, and others quote him, doesn't mean that it actually happened that way if the basis of the research was faulty to begin with.MRO50 (talk) 13:03, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

What I would do is to solicit some other publication, probably a magazine, interested in military aviation history — surely there are more than a dozen, especially if you expand your search to be worldwide — to do an interview with your father, and bait the hook to the journalist(s) by mentioning there's a side of this story that has not been told. The interview probably won't be all about this topic, but if the interview gets published in a known publication, and the interview touches on this subject, then your father will probably be relieved. The "poor research job" is unsurprising; the squeaky wheel gets the oil, and journalists and historians, just like everyone else, are all busy doing a million other things. It takes a lot of work to get anyone to take interest in publishing your story. You need to make things absolutely as easy as possible for the journalists. Before you contact the journalists, put up a web page on the subject with all the information you have, including scans of the logbook pages and a clear and precise timeline — so the journalists can refer to it and get the story (mostly) straight with a minimum of effort and time. If you want to blow some money on this, you could hire a PR agent to research what magazines are most likely to take interest in such an interview, and then do all the legwork. Tempshill (talk) 16:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and in case my implication wasn't clear, once it's been printed in some magazine that isn't a vanity press, then you've got your reliable source, by today's Wikipedia standards, anyway, and the Wikipedia article (and anybody else) can say "Mr. MRO50 Senior was quoted in Military History magazine in 2009 as stating the first pilot was actually Dr. Wurster, and provided log books to back up the assertion[93]". Tempshill (talk) 16:31, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

OK, Thanks... We have old friends at Flight Journal Magazine that may help us out here. They have previously asked me to write some articles for them, but in this case, it would be "them" that have to do the writing if I understand the Wikipedia rules for this sort of thing.MRO50 (talk) 19:20, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Supply and demand

Is buying up the entire world's stock of something (say...chocolate) in order to control the price and overinflate it massively for huge profit, illegal? If so, do we have an article on it? Thank... Vimescarrot (talk) 06:28, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Don't know if it's illegal by itself, but the majority of those who've tried it on a large scale over the past century or so seem to have gotten themselves in a lot of trouble. See Bunker Hunt, Corner the market... AnonMoos (talk) 07:06, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Illegality is jurisdiction-based; it might be illegal to do A in Country X, but perfectly legal in Country Z. DOR (HK) (talk) 07:45, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Many countries have anti-monopoly laws and commissions that try to prevent 1 person (or company) controlling too much of the market (or in the case of Natural monopoly(ies) there may be extra regulation/requriements that need to be met to try ensure evenness. You'd probably be interested in De Beers who - if my understanding is accurate - regulated the supply of diamonds to massively inflate the price. Similarly Opec and other similar Cartels exist that can have groups work together to try control prices. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

As I understand it, anti-monopoly laws don't generally prevent monopolies existing (although some countries prevent mergers that would create a monopoly, I don't know of any laws preventing organic growth in market share to monopoly levels), they prevent monopolies being abused. If you have a 90% market share, that's fine, but if you use that to gain leverage in another market you will find yourself the subject of an antitrust investigation. --Tango (talk) 09:30, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. Microsoft would clearly meet the definition of having a near-monopoly on computer operating systems. Their market share is up in the 90% range. However, they only become an illegal monopoly when they use their market share to unfairly influence the market; for example by using their operating system monopoly to drive competitors out of the market for other products they have. Also, classically DeBeers is a monopsony, or perhaps a bilateral monopoly, in that they act as the sole middle-man in the diamond market. Their control of the market has diminished as diamond mines in non-DeBeers controlled areas like Australia and Canada have come on line; however for much of history they were the sole buyer of raw, uncut diamonds in the world, which almost exclusively came from South Africa. They used that position to carefully control the supply and price of said diamonds. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 12:20, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

What you're talking about is called "cornering the market" and of course we have an article. —D. Monack ^talk 03:33, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Human resource functions

If this isn't the appropriate desk, please let me know and I'll move my question to the Misc desk.

Can someonne please direct me to articles or online resources that describe what are the various functions that an HR department performs, the relative importance of these functions in different types of industries (heavy engineering, FMCG industries, IT companies, banking & financial companies) and how these HR functions relate to the business needs of the organization. Thanks -- ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 07:02, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Have you read the human resources article? Dismas|^(talk) 10:42, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes I have! Does it have the precise information I am seeking? May be I missed it, let me looky again. ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 11:24, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I read it again, but it only has a bulleted list of the hr functions, with no details and their relative importance in different types of industries. --ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 11:43, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

The "relative importance" would be too subjective to state as it would vary from industry to industry and company to company. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.146.74.132 (talk) 17:51, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Being raped in the subway

I have heard different version of a story about woman being raped in the subway and no one helping them. Is this an urban legend or does it really happen? I cannot remember of any single news reporting it.--Mr.K. (talk) 12:17, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Here is a link to a news story http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30105703/ Eiad77 (talk) 12:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Groping, but not rape, is so prevalent on Japanese trains (at all times of day), that there are signs in every station saying 「チカンはいかん！」 (molestation is no good!), as if to remind people not to do it. But it still happens so much that I have known girls who've experienced it several times on different trains by different perpetrators in a single day. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 15:11, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Japan is one of the few non-Muslim countries with sex-segregated public transportation)... AnonMoos (talk) 16:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Only on Japan Rail (JR). I've never seen them on other rail carriers, but this is the exact reason they have them. I was there for ten years, and I saw all of this evolving. I really felt sad. But that is my opinion, and should not be taken as an answer to the OP's question. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 20:57, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

As a small child I remember a women-only compartment on a British train. 78.147.31.121 (talk) 16:42, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

It's rare, though. Tempshill (talk) 16:17, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm fascinated . . . why is this so prevalent in Japan? I apologise if I sound entirely ignorant, but I would have thought that, as one of the more developed nations, the Japanese would have . . . moved beyond such low-evolution habits by now? Maedin\^talk 16:27, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

It's not really surprising considering this is a culture that has comic books depicting very young girls having sex with bizarre monsters. Go to any bookshop in Japan, and you are likely to find half of the entire store devoted to this. The only reason they use monsters is because it is illegal to show adult male genitals, even in comic book form. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 20:37, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

This is not true, and I assume you realize that if you lived in Japan for ten years. Please don't write stuff like this. I guess it was intended as a joke, but people might take you seriously. -- BenRG (talk) 23:18, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Ben, I would like to agree with you, but unfortunately, it is actually true. Read the article I linked to if you don't take my word for it. There are even whole stores dedicated to it. Go to Shinjuku, Roppongi, Akihabara, and you'll see what I mean. Maybe the monsters bit might be a little elaborated, but the rest isn't. I apologize, but I was just stating a fact. Ask any gaijin who's lived in Japan for a while, and you'll get the same answer. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 07:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

You think roughly half the space in a typical Japanese bookstore is dedicated to comic books depicting monsters raping prepubescent girls? Or was part of that "a little elaborated"? Just the monsters part? Where did you get the idea that "The only reason they use monsters is because it is illegal to show adult male genitals"? Some random person told you and you believed it? Did you nurse these creepy ideas the whole time you were in Japan? At any time you could have walked into a bookstore and read the books. Or maybe just the manga, because half of the store is dedicated to manga, and "manga" and "tentacle rape" are the same category in your mind? What the hell, man? -- BenRG (talk) 10:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

OK, I shall rephrase it. Half the space of a typical bookshop in Japan is dedicated to pornography, both soft and hard, and most of it using schoolgirls, or girls dressed as schoolgirls. It is actually illegal to show genitals, as I read in the Japan Times on numerous occasions, when reading articles about people being caught committing crimes and having their apartments searched only to be found with this type of pornography. Don't argue with me mate, I was there, I saw it, I know what happened. As I have said before, just ask any other gaijin who has been there for a while (more than the average 1 or 2 years that most people stay for). I thought it was a terrible thing, but there was no I could change it. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 11:38, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think you just made this 50% figure up, because (a) it sounds like you made it up and (b) I've been in a lot of bookshops in Japan, ranging from antiquarian to all-manga, and I don't remember seeing large amounts of porn. But, that was over a decade ago. Maybe times have changed, maybe I wasn't paying attention, I don't feel like searching for sources. Anyway. People are caught committing crimes, and the police search their apartments, and find porn. Porn which is, I gather, legal to own in Japan, since you imply it's the same stuff that's sold at all those bookshops. Presumably the police also found other licit merchandise in their apartments, but the newspapers don't mention that, only the porn. In the U.S. the bugaboo is violent video games. After the latest teen shooting spree, the police search the teens' rooms and are shocked, shocked, to find violent video games there.

It really upsets me—not you specifically, just in general—how willing people are to accept Japan as a nation of perverts. It wasn't always a nation of perverts. Not long ago it was a nation of hardworking businesspeople that discouraged individualism and was going to take over the world, kind of like the Borg. Before that it was Eastern and mystical. Before that it was yellow and perilous. I'm amazed when I hear people talking about how Japanese people separate the world into "ingroup" and "outgroup", or how they wear a mask that hides their true intentions when talking with others—as though they aren't describing every human society that has ever existed. This is an enlightened age in which we've realized that the peoples of the world have far more in common than they have differences, but Japan seems to be a special case. They do the awful things that would never happen here, we report objectively on it. The Moral Decline of Japan is no different from the Moral Decline of America. It's a breakdown of traditional social structures. Please stop treating Japan as the weird country. -- BenRG (talk) 16:36, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry, Ben, I think I made it clear that I wasn't Japan-bashing. It's a lovely country and full of lovely people. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 00:20, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Interestingly, the article you linked to says "Milton Diamond and Ayako Uchiyama observe a strong correlation between the dramatic rise of pornographic material in Japan from the 1970s onwards and a dramatic decrease in reported sexual violence". Malcolm XIV (talk) 22:17, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I suppose I can believe that. However, there has been a dramatic increase in crimes against children. The cases of Airi Kinoshita and Kaede Ariyama were notorious. I was in Japan when these cases happened, and the public uproar (as well as in the media) was very powerful. Those articles also give links to other cases. I'm not Japan-bashing, however, and do not wish to be understood. I love Japan, and will be moving back there in a few years. Cases like the ones I have just linked to are not isolated to Japan, as they happen in every country. I am just stating that there has been an increase in reported crimes against children. In fact, when a child is murdered, it would get reported, so I think you can see what I am getting at. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 08:01, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't quite see what child murders in Japan have to do with the question, which is about a woman being raped on the subway. Please don't use the Reference Desk as a chatroom; try to stick to the subject in hand. Malcolm XIV (talk) 10:52, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I was not using it as a chatroom. It was an answer to your comment. You talked about sexual violence decreasing, I told you that sexual violence against children where the victim is murdered have increased. You started it. We're on a touchy subject now, and that is why everyone is on edge, as it angers us all. Let's calm down and just report the facts. And, MalcomXIV, you have been told by many people on Wikipedia to stop disagreeing with people just for the hell of it. We have had this conversation before. You wanna talk about something you know, go ahead. You wanna talk about something you have no idea about, then you don't even deserve an answer. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 11:38, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

This is not the place for your tedious personal attacks. See your talk page. Malcolm XIV (talk) 21:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

That wasn't a personal attack, lar, and you have threatened me on my talk page. YOU are the one who is once again in the wrong, as you very often have been told by other Wikipedians, but you never listen. You just keep coming back to argue. You don't even know what you are talking about, but you always take the opposite stance to everyone else. Don't threaten people, lad, or you shall see what happens. IPs are logged and you could be banned for what you said on my talk page. You're telling me to watch myself? You're the one with the attitude. Sort it out or go away. I'm making this public, because I know there are others here who are sick of your argumentative attitude, and they will be behind me. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 21:14, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Yawn. If you don't think posting a stream of obscenities on my talk page is a violation of WP:CIVIL, I suggest you give it a read. Let's continue this thrilling discussion elsewhere. Malcolm XIV (talk) 21:17, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, lad, I didn't realize you considered a single sentence to be a stream of obscenities. Your posts on my talk page, on the other hand, are very insulting, and many of them there are. I suggest you stop. That is advice. Take it or leave it. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 21:37, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

On my talk page you wrote: "Hey, twat! Don't fucking threaten me!"

On your own, you wrote: "Get off my fucking talk page, you twat! You've been warned plenty of times by others on Wikipedia, and you still try to cause shit. Fucking wanker." ... "Just fuck off, dickhead. I have no time for your shite." ... "you in your infinite wisdom should be able to look through wikipedia's fucking archives to find out who has been calling you all the twats going".

So on the "very insulting" and "suggest you stop" topic, I'd say you don't have a leg to stand on. Malcolm XIV (talk) 21:42, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Whatever. That was my talk page, not public pages like the RefDesks. I can say what I want, especially when someone invades it and threatens me, like you did. Wikipedia is not a place to threaten people, Malcolm, it's a place to state facts. If you want to threaten people, join the teenagers on IRC or something. Let's stop this now, because the poor OP's question is turning into a playground for trolls like you. It's not fair on him. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 21:55, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

WP:No angry mastodons. If you find yourself typing obscenities at another user, this is an indication that the mastodons are encroaching. This is no more acceptable on their or your talk page than it is on the reference desks. User talk pages are just as publicly available as these pages. When you feel the mastodons approach, try the advice on the appropriate page (linked). Or go and do something else until your heart rate slows down. 89.168.96.79 (talk) 23:30, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. Advice taken, and conversation with him is ended. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 05:19, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

A couple of "notorious" cases do not demonstrate a "dramatic increase"; the experts say that the crimes that you hear most about are the rare ones, and the splash then makes people think they're more common than they are. (What's the relevant article?) —Tamfang (talk) 22:31, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

A (female) friend was groped in the Paris Metro once while visiting that city. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 20:28, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I actually got groped by a Japanese guy when I was getting onto the train at the subway in Kanayama, Nagoya. He grabbed my backside, then proclaimed to everyone on the train that he had groped a gaijin's backside. Hey, look, I am a GUY ??!?! I was so shocked I couldn't even bring myself to kick his teeth in. I just laughed, and felt thankful (for him) that he hadn't chosen to touch my wife instead (who had been complaining to me that she was getting groped on the way to and from work almost every day). --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 21:04, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

The Paris metro is notorious for groping; check out any travellers' forum for tales. In reply to the OP, who asks if the story is an urban legend: you may be thinking of the case of Kitty Genovese, and the associated phenomenon of the diffusion of responsibility. BrainyBabe (talk) 23:57, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

It takes a lot more effort to do the right thing than most people realize. I am one of those irritating people who sort of tries to do it 90% of the time, and I find I'm the one guy even trying each time, even if there are dozens of people around. I think we could all do a little better for the world if we decide, ahead of time, to be that person, the one who makes the phone call, the one who raises his or her voice. It's not easy and we're not really socialized for it. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 00:46, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

We were socialized for it, we just got desocialized from it with the "You are not allowed to do anything against criminals, just call the police" type of mentality. --131.188.3.20 (talk) 20:35, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

In agreement with that call for courage, here's a good video [3]. I think it's awesome. Two young men in Australia see a man stabbing a pregnant woman and manage to save her life. Wrad (talk) 00:53, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

A little anecdote: I personally witnessed a girl being groped by a middle aged man, while her boyfriend next to her ignored what was happening. I was with my wife at the time, and we were sitting opposite. This guy was doing it in full view! I was the one who threw the man off the train, but got no thanks from either the boyfriend or the victim, who both got off at the next stop. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 07:07, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

On the flip side, Austin Hemmings was killed trying to saving a woman in Auckland [4]. What would have happened if he hadn't intervened we will never know, perhaps more and other people would have been injured or killed, perhaps no one would have died but the woman and perhaps others may have been injured. It's likely though that Austin Hemmings would still be alive today whatever the case. This doesn't of course mean that he made the wrong decision, but it is reflective of the fact intervening and trying to stop a crime in progress is indeed risky. And hopefully we can all agree whatever would have happened in this case, it can definitely result in what by most measures is a a worse outcome then if you had not intervened (as well as a better one). Nil Einne (talk) 18:42, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

In the book A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, young Frances Nolan gets the advice from her mother (or is it aunt?) that she should learn to stand on the subway without holding the overhead straps, keeping her hands by her side, and keeping a sharp hatpin in one hand, to retaliate against any groping. This is New York City in the 1910s. Jørgen (talk) 14:10, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Certainly in Manchester nightclubs not that many years ago (less than 10), getting groped by random lowlifes was depressingly common. Similarly to the advice Nolan received, the usual defence was to have your hands by your sides and time a grab to squeeze the groper's hand as hard and painfully (nails helped) as possible. I don't know if it is still as common. This isn't a phenomenon limited to Japan. 89.168.96.79 (talk) 20:27, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

IIRC, Nick Leeson explains in his memoir Rogue Trader: How I Brought Down Barings Bank and Shook the Financial World his technique at nightclubs in the 1980s: he would attempt to place his penis in the hand of a girl standing on or near the crowded dance floor. I really do not understand this -- did he think it was more likely to attract a girlfriend? had he never heard of false nails? -- but he kept it up, if you'll excuse the pun, until a heavily built boyfriend of one of these young women told him to stop. I would be grateful if anyone can give a page reference for this; it would be quite early on. BrainyBabe (talk) 21:52, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Trying to bring this discussion somewhat more on topic, you may want to read diffusion of responsibility and bystander effect. This sort of thing is sadly IMHO, not as surprising as it may sound, although the classic story Kitty Genovese is not as bad as it was originally made to sound. (Actually I would say that even for this case, I strongly suspect one of the reasons why nothing was done is because the people who saw it weren't sure what else to do and didn't want to put themselves at risk. Plus they had some degree of responsibility to other things, e.g. if the driver had gotten out of the train and it had been hijacked) Nil Einne (talk) 23:54, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

In an attempt to bring the discussion back on track, two of those links were provided 24 hours previously. BrainyBabe (talk) 07:25, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry missed that in the discussion Nil Einne (talk) 18:42, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Personal Royal Mottoes (UK)

There seems to be no authoritive list of the personal mottoes of the various monarchs of the UK, and I'd like Wikipedia to have one. First, though, I'd like to answer the personal question that prompted this. So this image shows James I's arms, apparently, (the shield itself is Stuart, at least). It has the motto EXURGAT DEUS, DISSIPENTER INIMICI (God will rise, enemies will be scattered (?, my translation))- the only reference Google throws up are some coins from Charles I's time. Was it used, and by whom?

Secondly, what did the other monarchs use (other than Dieu et mon droit)?

• James I used Beati Pacifici (Blessed are the peacemakers), not that listed above.
• Elizabeth used Semper eadem, "Ever the same"
• Cromwell used Pax quaeritur bello – “Peace is sought through war”

(I also saw a person saying that Henry VIII didn't have such a motto as king, but then again they were arguing that to call an armorial achievement a coat of arms was a grave mistake. He (or she) did say that Coeur Loyal was probably incorrect as a long-term thing though.

Thanks, - Jarry1250 ^{(t, c)} 15:48, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

UPDATE: our Threepence (British coin) article, and others, date coins using EXURGAT DEUS DISSIPENTUR INIMICI — Let God arise and His enemies be scattered. to the reign of Charles I. However, I've also found here which is a very similar painting in a similar church, in James I's reign with the inscription. What's up with it? - Jarry1250 ^{(t, c)} 16:32, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Psalm 68 or 67 uses it. Was it special for his arms in churches? - Jarry1250 ^{(t, c)} 16:56, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

history

where can I find a list of major events for the period 1900-1912? Such lists exist on this site for earlier periods, but by the 20th century, there are thousands of events listed for each year.148.197.114.207 (talk) 20:27, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

You might take a look at 1900s (decade) and 1910s. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 20:30, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Galloping Major scandal

Is this article the least informative on wikipedia? 91.104.59.235 (talk) 21:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I've redirected it to Barry Townsley. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 21:45, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Financial Times front page for 1993 Bishopsgate bombing

Could anybody steer me to this front page please? I recall it being something along the lines of 'X million square foot of damage' Thanks in advance 79.78.24.13 (talk) 21:56, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Our article on the 1993 Bishopsgate bombing says that one and a half million square feet of office space were affected and 5,000 tonnes of glass were broken. There is a link to a BBC On This Day page, but I can't see an FT link. Gandalf61 (talk) 16:30, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Your local library should have it archived. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 06:49, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Ahmad Tejan Kabbah's second wife

Around how old will Ahmad Kabbah's second wife be? Ahmad Kabbah marry his second wife last year, so his second wife should be at least 30 years younger than Ahmad, so she wouldn't be older than 1970 or 1968 birth. So around how old will Ahmad's second wife be, good one might be 1972 birth.--69.229.240.187 (talk) 22:49, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

This site says his second wife, variously named Isatu (or Isata) Jabbie (or Jabbe), is 40 years’ younger than he is, which would suggest she was born in 1972. // BL \\ (talk) 01:28, 28 May 2009 (UTC)