Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2009 June 30

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June 30

Gnosticism

Is it like the 'religion of philosophy'? 94.196.114.87 (talk) 01:05, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Nope, see Gnosticism. There are lots of things which get called "gnosticism", but generally the term gets applied to any of a number of Judeo-Christian heretical sects of the first few centuries AD. Most would be considered "cults" under the modern understanding. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Gnosticism involved specific mythologies (see Aeon and Ogdoad for some of the complexities), and often included the ideas of extreme spirit-matter dualism, and that the creator of this world was actually the evil demiurge, a false god. Many forms of gnosticism were ultra-ascetic (opposed to all sex, even within marriage), though a few were "antinomian" or "libertine"... AnonMoos (talk) 18:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Jervis Bay Territory's reason for existing

According to its article, the Jervis Bay Territory was created in order that the Australian Capital Territory could have access to the sea. But why was it considered important for the Australian Capital Territory to have its own access to the sea? -- 203.97.105.173 (talk) 07:11, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

• The short answer is that the Seat of Government Act 1908 (which determined the site of the ACT) required it. As to the reasoning, it may have been so the ACT wasn't dependent on NSW for access to the sea and the trade and travel that went with it. This was, after all, before the age of air travel. Dalliance (talk) 09:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

• • Until fairly recently, being landlocked was a VERY impractical way to be for any political unit. Lots of territories had their borders established so that they would always have access to warm-water ports; see the relationship between Bremen and Bremerhaven for a similar situation in Germany. Lots of conflicts were started as countries fought over access rights to the sea, see Polish Corridor and Ingria and Crimean War for some background on areas that were hotly contested specifically because they were vital for ocean access. In most cases, even in subnational political units, like Australian or American states, the borders were carefully considered to allow each state access to deep-water ports. Look at the U.S. states east of the Mississippi. Every state except Vermont and West Virginia has either direct access to the ocean, or has deep-water access via either the Mississippi River or the Great Lakes. Lots of these states have short panhandles which give them this access, see Pennsylvania, Alabama, Mississippi. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 14:16, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Within the former Yugoslavia, the boundaries were drawn so that four of the six constituent republics had seacoasts, and Slovenia set up a port that to some degree competed with the ports of Croatia and Montenegro... AnonMoos (talk) 18:52, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

• • • Actually, Vermont does have access to the sea, via Lake Champlain and the Richelieu River, and West Virginia has access via the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 21:09, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Returning to Dalliance's answer, the thing is that Jervis Bay is separated from the ACT by about 100 km of New South Wales. So even with the Jervis Bay Territory, the ACT is still "dependent on NSW for access to the sea", unless they transport their boats by air! --Anonymous, 19:40 UTC, June 30, 2009.

Jervis Bay serves to ensure the ACT would have control over its own port - and thus is not subject to, for example, "soft" pressure from NSW in the form of, say, landing duties. That goods and people still have to travel to Canberra by road through NSW is not an issue unless NSW actually blockaded Canberra - and if that happens, sea access might be the least of the ACT's worries. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 23:59, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the responses. Very helpful. -- 203.97.105.173 (talk) 04:04, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Boundaries of the ACT

One thing that strikes me when I look at the ACT on a map is that the actual capital city is located near one edge of the irregularly shaped territory. When a new capital city and territory is created out of a largely unpopulated district, it seems more natural that things would be laid out more symmetrically, like the way the original square shape of DC had the government buildings near its center. On what basis were the boundaries of the ACT chosen? --Anonymous, 19:40 UTC, June 30, 2009.

(ec)I can only give additional information here. Most of the rest of the ACT (the bit that Canberra is not built on) is National Park. Might it have been chosen so that the Capital Territory had national parks? On the Jervis Bay question, there's very little of use in the Jervis Bay territory. It's mostly seen as a holiday spot from here in Canberra. Steewi (talk) 01:45, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Some of it serves as water catchment for reservoirs that supply the city, but I have no idea if that's part of the reason for its inclusion. -- 203.97.105.173 (talk) 04:04, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

I did notice that the border travels along the top of the mountains and ridgelines along much of the border. You can see this on Google Earth. This is particularly true along the western side. So it does seem like a lot of the border is determined by natural features. - Akamad (talk) 13:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

I see. Thanks. --Anon, 20:14 UTC, July 3, 2009.

1st person hanged

Who was the first person who was given death penalty i.e. hanging? Please do not give answer with reference to any specific region or country, rather considering the whole word history. 119.152.77.212 (talk) 09:00, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Did you mean "e.g." where you have "i.e."? It seems strange that you ask for the first person put to death if you are looking only for those hanged.

I've read that death by hanging originated in ancient Persia, but am not sure how reliable that information is.

For what it's worth, and despite your tersely worded addendum, death by hanging as a penalty in China appeared during the Spring and Autumn period. The Zuo Zhuan records that, in the year 493 BC, Duke Ai of Lu instituted death by hanging (with a silk noose) for ministers of the lower ranks. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 09:10, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I suspect the Chinese records are the most precise you will find. The Tollund Man is likely to have been killed by hanging. Though he is thought to be from the 4th century BC, and hence a little later than Chinese records, it is believed that he was probably killed as a sacrifice suggesting that hanging was by that time an established method among the Danes. Esther 7:10 (from about the same time) also mentions hanging: "So they hanged Haman on the gallows which he had prepared for Mordecai", though this may have been hanging his dead body rather than a method of execution. Among the Maya, suicide by hanging was regarded as a noble death and it was also used as punishment, but it is unknown when in Mayan history this practise began - it is also likely that heinous crimes carried a sentence of death rather than hanging specifically. More generally, the Code of Ur-Nammu from the 3rd millennium BC establishes the death penalty for murder, robbery and the rape of a married virgin (rape of another man's virgin slave carried only a 5 silver shekel fine). Fouracross (talk) 10:13, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

The Baker was hanged by Pharaoh. --Dweller (talk) 12:49, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

How long did a woman typically remain a virgin after being married back then? Seems like it would be a narrow window of opportunity for the bad guy. Perhaps out back of the reception hall? Edison (talk) 14:32, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I presume that was a question in response to Fouracross, not my comment. I've not read the Code of Ur-Nammu, but I'd bet he's referring to a two-stage marriage like that described in the Bible, where the couple are first "betrothed" and then marry some time later, during which period sex with others is adulterous and divorce is needed to separate the couple. --Dweller (talk) 14:37, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether the married state would have started at the betrothal, but, anecdotally, one of the complaints made against Gilgamesh in the Epic of Gilgamesh is that he abuses his power by sleeping with brides before their husbands can (early in the story he turns up at a wedding to do just that, but is distracted by a fight with the wild-man Enkidu). It's possible that the death penalty in Code of Ur-Nammu was aimed at preventing such droit de seigneur abuses by the ruling classes. Fouracross (talk) 17:12, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Obviously people were given death penatly far before any recorded histroy exists. Some somarian tables that are 6500BC mention death setences.--58.111.133.169 (talk) 12:12, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

6,500 BC is a trifle optimistic however: the earliest Sumerian language tablets date to very late in the 4th millennium/early 3rd millennium BC. Perhaps you are thinking of the legal code mentioned above (3rd millennium BC). Fouracross (talk) 13:01, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Could be a confusion of 4,500 BP and 4,500 B.C.. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 00:13, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

...and the OP specifically is interested in hanging ("i.e.") and not other (or unknown) methods. --Dweller (talk) 23:20, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Living standards measure

This Google search seems to indicate that living standards measure is a uniquely South African market segmentation framework. Is there any equivalent concept in other markets that can possibly serve as a redirect for LSM? If not I think LSM should be turned into a blue link, the first Google result seems like a comprehensive reference (I will try to get something started if I have time). There may be a few redirect targets in the market segment article, however I leave it to someone more economically-minded than I to make a recommendation. (Enter Zain Ebrahim, stage left. I hope) Zunaid 09:58, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Queen of Iraq

Can anyone tell me about the queens of Iraq in 1920-1958? Their names are here in Wikipedia, but they have no articles. Did they play any official role, or did they live in traditional seclusion?--Aciram (talk) 10:22, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

You could try List of Kings of Iraq and investigate the articles of the individual kings There were three during the Mandate years and later independence. If their wives were not notable enough for individual articles, they may be covered in the articles on their husbands. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 14:06, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

The use of the phrase "Queen of Iraq" somewhat begs the question of whether or not these women played a public social role at all comparable to European queen-consorts (which is what you're asking about). The word "queen" is not really very appropriate to refer to those wives and/or concubines of Muslim rulers who lived in "traditional seclusion"... AnonMoos (talk) 19:11, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this is true. The time for the first "Queen" in this sense seem to differ in Muslim countries: Afghanistan in the 1920s (Soraya Tarzi), Iran 1930s, Egypt 1940s, Jordan 1950s, from what wikpedia say. How was it in Iraq? That would be interesting to know!--Aciram (talk) 12:55, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Madoff's life

How will Madoff live from now on? Will he be able to leave prison, at least for a couple of days? Could he commute his stay into home arrest?--Mr.K. (talk) 10:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Barring appeals, Madoff will be incarcerated in a federal prison for 150 years (practically speaking, until he dies). There is no parole available for federal sentences. He's been jailed since March so I expect this means that there's no real change in his status. To be specific with your follow-up questions: again, barring appeals (or presidential pardon), he will not leave prison for any sort of vacation nor will his term be commuted. — Lomn 13:53, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

His article points out that he was deemed a flight risk and therefore was not allowed to stay in his home. What makes you think that he would be allowed to stay in his home after being convicted? wow, no article for flight risk?Dismas|^(talk) 14:40, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

And I would imagine his pardon chances are zero out to 8 digits or so, since a granting such a pardon would be political suicide considering how unpopular Madoff is. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 19:16, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

The only possibility I can see is if he becomes terminally ill and they release him to his family. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 00:40, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I thought about something related to bad health or his age (over 70). Incarcerated seniors will develop Alzheimer or other form of dementia someday (if they don't die earlier). What is the purpose of letting them in jail? They can't commit any crime and they don't even know where they are.Mr.K. (talk) 09:38, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

If the rules in the USA are the same as the UK then it is possible that he would be allowed to leave prison for compassionate reasons, to attend a funeral or vist a dying relative. This would be a brief visit, and would normally involve being handcuffed to a guard (maybe two) so though he would technically be out of prison he would not be free in any normal sense. -- Q Chris (talk) 13:00, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

legal advice

Someone stole the hubcaps off my car last night. Does anyone know where I can go for some free legal advice? Wikivanda199 (talk) 13:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Try your local police station. -- kainaw™ 13:27, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, also call your insurance company. The insurance company will probably ask that you file a formal report with the police. The police will politely take your report, and of course if they actually find your hubcaps, they probably would return them. However, isolated incidents of petty larceny of this type are rarely investigated as strenuously as more serious crimes; unless there appears to be a pattern of similar thefts. You probably will not recover your hubcaps anytime soon, if ever. You may recover their value from the insurance company, depending on the level of your deductable. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 14:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I was looking for some information on where to get free legal advice so I can find out if the owner of the property on which the vehicle is parked might be liable. Wikivanda199 (talk) 14:13, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Wait, are you for real? You parked your car somewhere, your hubcaps got stollen, and now you want to sue the owner of whichever random spot you decided to park your car on? I might be just an ignorant European, but that sounds awfully... well, stupid. No offence. Oh, you might want to check this out, might help you along: responsibility

Ah, guilty-pleasures insipid stereotypes confirmed in real life, the world would be too complex without you. TomorrowTime (talk) 21:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Tomorrow, you might consider whether the parking lot owner might not have a responsibility to the people who leave their property in his care. I don't say that he necessarily should, but it's not outrageous to imagine cases where it would apply. In which case the original poster might expect compensation without needing to sue. --Anonymous, 08:18 UTC, July 1, 2009.

If the property owner bears any liability whatsoever, count on your insurance company to tell you, when you file a claim. Reason being that if the property owner is responsible, he pays, and the insurance company doesn't have to. -- 76.201.158.47 (talk) 01:31, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

What is the replacement cost for your hubcaps? Lawyers in the U.S. charge anywhere from $150 to $400 per hour. How many hours are you prepared to pay for in an effort to get the property owner to replace the hubcaps? If your parent or sibling or domestic partner is an attorney, that is the best way to get free legal advice. Everyone else pays, in general. A lawyer might not take a contingent fee case (on spec) if all he stands to earn is half of the recovered hubcaps. Edison (talk) 14:29, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

• The original poster asked for free advice, not $150 to $400 an hour advice. I've certainly heard of lawyers providing a free (and short) initial consultation, although this might vary from place to place. Probably the original poster should start by contacting the law society, bar association, or whatever they call it where he lives. --Anon, 08:18 UTC, July 1, 2009.

Have you never seen those programs on television like Judge (insert name)? They never have lawyers. Wikivanda199 (talk) 14:37, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

You're correct that small claims court often doesn't require lawyers, but you've asked where you can get legal advice -- that's something completely different, and requires a lawyer. At that point, as Edison notes, you're likely to get charged since the lawyer isn't going to gain anything from the case itself. On the other hand, you could continue to take your cues from television (note per our article that those are arbitration in the guise of court, not actually court) and take the property owner to court without knowing whether you've got any ground to stand on. There's probably a filing fee but past that, it's as close to free as you're likely to get. — Lomn 14:49, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

You could peruse the materials at http://www.nolo.com/. -- Coneslayer (talk) 15:12, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Most UK car parks whether publicly owned or private have a disclaimer along the lines of "Vehicles parked at owner's risk. The owner does not accept liability for vehicles or contents." - Unless you can show a duty of care here and possibly negligence I doubt you'll get very far with this. You must also consider whether the card is worth the candle - I had a car hit by an uninsured driver and opted to simply scrap the vehicle rather than sue him for repairs - the value of the car wasn't worth the amount of time, effort and costs involved in litigation. Exxolon (talk) 19:04, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

If there have been several incidents of such thefts occurring, and the landlord has not done anything about it, you might have something, regardless of a disclaimer. Probably not worth the hassle though unless these were some seriously expensive hubcaps. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 19:13, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Sometimes, strongly worded disclaimers like the one Exxolon describes turn out to be less powerful than they seem when tested in court. If a duty of care is shown in one case, it becomes a precedent for other people's cases. This is exactly the sort of thing that the original poster would want to know by way of legal advice.

Once again, I am not saying that the original poster should have any expectation of being compensated -- that would be legal advice and in any case I do not pretend to know! I am saying that it is reasonable to want to get legal advice if you suffer a loss. --Anonymous, 08:18 UTC, July 1, 2009.

Eddie Van Halen's race

He looks totally white. How the hell can he be half Indonesian?--Bored of the world (talk) 14:11, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

The Dutch were the colonial masters of Indonesia, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that his mother was of Dutch descent, so making her white. --TammyMoet (talk) 14:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Since his mother's maiden name (Van Beers) is Dutch, I would think she's at least part Dutch herself. The Dutch wikipedia refers to her as "Indische Nederlander", which probably means she's half Indonesian (Javanese in her case). I don't think that term is used for white Dutchmen who lived in Indonesia in colonial times though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.171.56.13 (talk) 17:35, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

She could also have been of full white Dutch descent and still have been an Indonesian citizen. There are people of many different races who are citizens of many different countries. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 17:49, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Theoretically that is possible, but historically it's far less likely; after Indonesian independence, a bloody affair, not many Dutchmen stayed around and took Indonesian citizenship. It's especially unlikely in this case because we know she was in Amsterdam in the fifties when she had her son Alex, Eddie's brother. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.171.56.13 (talk) 18:03, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Looks can be deceiving. Or, more to the point, your preconception of what it would mean to look "half Indonesian" could be wrong. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 00:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Tolkien -Turin's tale - dragon origins

In the various version of the tale of Turin and Niniel edited by C. Tolkien the dragon in the story twists the truth in its conversation with Turin. In a lot of the related work in clear that Tolkien has borrowed of been influenced by old myths, folk tales, and 'fairy stories' - but I don't know of any similar story in respect to the dragon conversation (clearly the killing of the dragon is much like that found with Sigurd).

My question is - does anyone know of an older tale which contains a character like the dragon - ie in its twisting of the truth in the conversation with the protagonist? Thanks83.100.250.79 (talk) 15:14, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

European dragon article may help. Actually, you may start with dragon for a broader picture. Please don't hesitate to ask further questions if you have them. --Dr Dima (talk) 18:16, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

An after-thought: the article on Christian teaching about the Devil is probably more relevant. The idea of dragon as twister of truth is likely coming from Christianity and not from the folk tradition. --Dr Dima (talk) 18:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, both links were useful - particularily in the wider context.

More specifically I was looking for example of two motifs:

• One in which an oracle, or other type fortune teller gives a character a prediction of the future - which though technically accurate - turns out to be horribly fulfilled (eg in a very simple example "you will be reunited with your friends" today - leading to the character finding themselves in prison or as slaves with their friends)
• Another in which a creature retells the past with a malicious spin to the protagonist (probably a doomed or tragic hero) - either as a taunt, or reveeling the fulfillment of a curse on the hero.

I'm sure I've read or heard of both these elements in stories (above example excluded) - though my mind is blank as to where - probably european or greek myth, possibly shakespear. It's not very important though if anyone can give an example I'd appreciate it. Thanks83.100.250.79 (talk) 20:15, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

The first is a recurring trope in stories about the Delphic Oracle; the second is the plot of Oedipus Rex. AlexTiefling (talk) 20:59, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Macbeth was a bit disappointed by the witches' prophecies. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:13, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes thanks - it was Macbeth I was thinking of for the first one, for the second one the tale of Oedipus is close - but I was thinking of a story in which the protagonist is cursed (but does not understand the curse), and then later has the meaning of the curse explained by some evil creature or enemy, at which point the curse has already played itself out. I think in Oedipus the curse though like a riddle is understood (though not believed), and there is no evil enemy taunting the tragic character at the end? Any ideas? 83.100.250.79 (talk) 21:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

The ambivalent prophecy is a mainstay of legend. Example: when King Croesus of Lydia asked the oracle at Delphi whether or not he should attack the Persians under Cyrus, he was told that if he did, he would destroy a great empire. Turns out the empire was his own.

A Roman noble asked the [[Sybil]° if he should stay at home or flee his enemies. The written reply: DOMINESTES. He interpreted it as 'Domine, stes' (Lord, stay), when actually she meant 'Domi ne stes' (don't stay at home). He was arrested. That Sybil-- what a card! Rhinoracer (talk) 09:57, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Andes flight disaster - Can someone please provide me with the exact co-ordinates of the Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571 crash site? Article has possible discrepency.

I'm trying to locate the exact crash site using Google maps, based on the given co-ordinates from the Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571 article on Wikipedia. However, if I look at the maps listed in the article, and refer to Google maps, it seems as though the crash site on Google maps is in fact more westerly than indicated on the Wikipedia map (34°45′54″S 70°17′11″W).

I say this because the border line dividing Argentina from Cile places the crash site on different sides of the border than indicated on the Wikipedia article maps (east), and it appears on the western border in Google maps.

This could very well be a geographical error on Google maps, but I would still like to know the right co-ordinates to use on Google maps to find the precise location. I fail to see how the airplane debris is located on the side of a mountain, where there is no snow at all (this also might be a seasonal influence, but the image in Google maps doesn't quite match the story line either).

I have also edited the discussions page on the article, but I was hoping to get a more immediate answer here.

Your help will be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Daniel Minnaar —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.209.221.70 (talk) 19:29, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Note: Editted to remove email address. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 19:45, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Good luck with your search, but I am not sure if you can locate it using google maps. From what I understand, the resolution of the satellite imagery is rather good for many US cities, but is rather poor for rural areas. In a place like the Andes, the resolution might be so poor that even if you were looking directly at a object the size and shape of that airplane, it might not be recognizable. 65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

The above question refers to the actual location in terms of co-ordinates, and not so much trying to identify debris, because the debris has since been incinerated. Can anyone help here? This must surely have been recorded. There were reports of the daily sightings of the victims with regards to the terrain around them - so perhaps someone could indicate where on Google Maps these features are located? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dminnaar (talk • contribs) 09:13, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

International Society of Krishna Conciousness

Hi, this webpage is deceptively convincing. Can anyone provide a convincing list of anti-thesis? I am being led to believe that Prabhupada is most misleading and it is just difficult to find modern respectable adversion to his work and translations. All I can find when searching on Prabhupada is the highest esteem. There must be something to counter that...? ~ R.T.G 21:53, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

You meant criticisms of his translations or interpretations - I suppose you already tried searching for "Prabhupada criticism" and gave up in the sea of praise - keep trying - here's one http://www.iskcon.com/icj/7_2/72surya.html , there are a lot of hindus, many educated, there must be more.

Surely there must be other translations of the BG you could read and then see for yourself if there is something wrong with Prabhupada's work.

On a personal level I found the praise a little much for my taste - for what appears on the surface to be simply a very straightforward translation, but then I don't actually enjoy ancient literature, so any qualities it had would be lost on me :(

What I'm suggesting is that there is a natural bias at work here - assuming that his work is basically legitimate then those that enjoy/like/identify with the text will be appreciative of what he has done. To put it bluntly you may be looking at a lot of fan praise.

As far as I can tell the translation is consider good, but the commentary in general considered very dogmatic (or biased by some) (see [1] - maybe not the citable references you might have wanted). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.100.250.79 (talk) 02:42, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

83.100.250.79 (talk) 01:42, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

I am concentrating on stuff that might make him appear non-notable and/or unreliable which I have to say (sniggering at the place where it was to be found) the "Critique" book you have shown is the most convincing yet but on its own, again, not all that convincing. ~ R.T.G 07:08, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Mmmh, I can't see much chance of estabilshing non-notability in the wikipedia sense - as the author/translator of a well known book..

Doesn't Sri Aurobindo's interpretation form the basis of a reasonable critique of his interpretations eg the quote in Bhagavad_Gita#War_as_an_allegory could be used (by someone with an ax to grind - not me!) itself as an attack on the interpretations used by Prabhupda?

As an aside I'm suprised nobody seems to have criticised the way the book (ie the "Bhagavad Gita as it is") has been formatted - chopping the actual text up renders the actual story practically unreadable - I could even decribe it as arrogant. Why wasn't it formatted as original on left page, translation on right page, with commentary after each chapter, or inserted as notes at the bottom? Is the original peppered with commentary?

Good luck anyway.83.100.250.79 (talk) 19:32, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

You did do quite well, and thanks, although I still think that support for the Hare Krishnas outweighs their critiques. ~ R.T.G 18:00, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Tanzanian general election, 2005

Did Tanzania pass a rule to only allow national leaders to run for two terms only? Because first one Julis whatever start term in 1960 and end in 1985. Ali Hassan Mwinyi was second PR from 1985 until 1995 (age 69 to 70), then he left office and hand the power to Benjamin Mkapa from 1995 until 2005 (age 57 to 67), then he left again when Jakaya Kikwete took over power when he was 55. Will he be able to run for 2015 election or he will have to hand the power to somebody else. Do some country once apon a time, allow leaders to stay as long as they want, then at certain day they change a law to only allow leaders to run for two terms maximum.--69.229.111.118 (talk) 22:04, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Not as often as they want but as often as they get re-elected -- the U.S. used to be this way although only Franklin Roosevelt served more than two terms and the constitution was changed later to only allow two terms maximum. Rmhermen (talk) 00:52, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

• I beielve Mkapa and Mwiniyi will love to stay as long as they can. I beleive they will like to stay for over two terms If At Tanzania they are now only allow to sever two term only then Jakaya Kikwete will not be able to run for 2015 term. Abdoulaye Wade is planning to run for his 3d term in 2012. Hifikepunye Pohamba will probably run for his 3d term in 2013. Normally poeple won't give up the power unless they feel they are too old, or if they have term limit.--69.229.111.118 (talk) 02:10, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

In a country with fair elections, it isn't up to them but to the electorate. At any rate the article you linked to only has four sentence of text, one of which is "They were also significant in that the incumbent President Benjamin Mkapa, who has served two consecutive terms, stepped down in accordance with the constitution." Tanzania apparently adopted a new constitution in 1984. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 23:13, 1 July 2009 (UTC)