Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2008 November 19

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November 19

Why was Spain at the recent G20 Summit.

Looking at this picture, [[1]] I notice in the back row the President of Spain, Señor José Luis Rodriguez Zapatero. Why were Spain there if they are not listed as members of G20? Richard Avery (talk) 13:30, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

France was entitled to two seats, both as a nation, and as they hold the current EU presidency. After lobbying from various countries, they decided to give their second seat to Spain. Deutsche Welle has further details. Warofdreams talk 13:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I was going to give the short answer: They were invited... But Warofdreams has given a much more specific one... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 13:38, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, I really must pay more attention. Thanks both. Richard Avery (talk) 08:21, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. Did you not spot Jan Kees de Jager in that photo too? William Avery (talk) 13:30, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Leadership styles

In many organisations in Zambia the type of leadership style has affected the labour forces performance negatively. How do leadership styles affect productivity in corporate organisations in developing economies.Blak thot (talk) 14:23, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

oooh... That's a tricky question. I only wish that colleges and universities taught classes where information such as this was presented in the form of a lecture or a textbook, so that I could attend those lectures and take notes, or so that I could read that textbook and find possible answers to questions such as this... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 17:38, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I have linked your question to various articles, in case you are missing some fundamental concepts that are not in your text book this year. Try also to read those articles.--Lgriot (talk) 04:52, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Messiahs in History

In many Christain faiths, Jesus is considered the Messiah. In the term that I understand, Messiah is someone who delivers man from evil/chaos/etc. So Jesus is considered the first Messiah historically. So, are there any notable figures in history that can be Messiah-like after Jesus? I guess one comes to mind - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Is this a fair assumption? --Emyn ned (talk) 15:41, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I would have thought the concept of a messiah in modern society to be a subjective title - as daft as it may sound Hitler was probably initially seen by the German population as a messiah, delivering them from social depression and giving them hope; long term history obviously shows otherwise. Throughout history there have been a number of people claiming to be the messiah - and even today a section of the American public will feel that Barack Obama has the qualities of a messiah! --KizzyB (talk) 15:52, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Messiah is a title for the expected deliverer of the Jewish people (who hasn't arrived yet). Christians refer to Jesus as the Messiah, claiming that he is the delivered of the Jewish people. (Yes, there are Jewish Christians who blur the distinction). In slang, it can mean anything you like. You can claim Bart Simpson is the Messiah if you like. Once you change the definition of a word, you can make it mean anything you like. -- kainaw™ 15:53, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

The meaning of Messiah has changed dramatically over the years as well. To 1st century Jews, for example, the term was widely held to mean a warrior-king who would lead an army to deliver the Jews from their oppressors and form an independent state. Its why Jesus was treated as such a political threat. When asked "are you the Messiah" by Pilate, for example, what Pilate was really saying was "Are you the guy the Jews keep saying will overthrow the Roman government here in Israel (i.e. Pilate himself)". Jesus, of course, took himself to be a different sort of deliverer, one who would deliver all men from the oppression of sin. Jesus, of course, told Pilate "it is as you say" with his own definition in mind; Pilate took him to mean the more commonly understood definition, which is why he considered Jesus enough of a threat to put up for execution. Since Jesus time, the term has broadend to imply anyone who delivers others from an oppressive situation, but this is a more recent sort of synecdoche than the original, more narrow, definitions... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 17:45, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

---

The original meaning of the Hebrew word Mashiaħ משיח was "annointed" (referring to the ceremony of consecrating priests and kings by annointing them with oil). In the actual original Hebrew text of the Old Testament, the word Mashiaħ משיח refers to several Israelite priests and kings (and even the Persian emperor Cyrus in Isaiah 45:1), but never to an apocalyptic future savior... AnonMoos (talk) 22:02, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Side-spring boots in Heart of Darkness

What are side-spring boots? I came accross the term in Heart of Darkness, in which a minor character is described as wearing side-spring boots, and pink pyjamas tucked into his socks. I have searched all over the Internet, asked the librarian at my university library, and flipped through various books written about fashion in that period, but I have not been able to figure out what side-spring boots are. Neelix (talk) 16:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Was there anything before "side"? The term "spring boot" isn't common (as far as I know) anymore. It is a style of boot that has a pattern down the side. You can get leather side spring boots, cashmere side spring boots... just about anything (even zebra striped fur side spring boots). Because "pyjamas" is not written in the American modern form (pajamas), I assume that "spring boot" is still in use in British English. -- kainaw™ 17:29, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Because I asked the nurses for this answer (I don't know jack about women's boot fashions), I was just told that one of our nurse's from London owns and often wears leather side spring boots. -- kainaw™ 17:31, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

The usage is "with sandy hair and red whiskers, who wore sidespring boots, and pink pyjamas tucked into his socks" - on googling one also finds "side-spring boots" in Victorian texts. I have never heard the expression "spring boots" in British English. Conrad used the British spelling of pyjamas because (despite being Polish) he was British. DuncanHill (talk) 17:33, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Asking again... I was told that "spring boots" is a very old term that isn't used anymore in British English either, but most women know what it means. Perhaps it is like "petticoat". Nobody uses the term, but they know what it means. Since spring boots are for women and there is nothing before "side", I assume that the author is not referring to spring boots. -- kainaw™ 17:47, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I just realized that the author is most likely referring to spring clasps (like those found on ski boots). You may find leather boots with spring clasps on the sides in stores that sell motorcycle clothing. I rarely see anyone wear them in real life, but I've seen them in many Japanese animation books, movies, games, etc. -- kainaw™ 18:54, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

See this glossary in an edition of Heart of Darkness. The boots in question have elastic panels along the sides to make them easier to pull on and off. Deor (talk) 19:37, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Well done for finding that glossary - very useful to now have a name for that sort of boots. Rather embarrassing for me, however - the edition you linked to was edited by my uncle! DuncanHill (talk) 21:47, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Reminds me of the gag, "Dad, what does 'tore his leather' mean?" "I don't know, son, why do you ask?" "Because this book says, 'Robin Hood tore his leather jerkin off.'" --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 21:40, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I am quite amazed that I thought of that and refrained from posting it. Great minds run in similar gutters. Edison (talk) 07:23, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Ankle length riding boots, paddock boots, jodpur boots and Chelsea boots, elastic-sided, sound and look like the idea of "spring-sided" or "spring" boots. I like them for casual wear in winter but people identify them as riding boots, though I don't ride). Nice gag, Julia Rossi (talk) 02:17, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

US Capitol Trolley Car

Is there information about this on Wikipedia? [2][3] It seems like something that someone would obsess over (like I would like to), but I can't seem to find anything. Does it have a more common name? My google-fu is failing. - cohesion 16:46, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

United States Capitol Subway System ? Nanonic (talk) 16:55, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

No, I think that is the public subway, this one looks like it's some sort of congressional-only transportation? - cohesion 17:50, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

The article states that this is not for the use of the general public unless escorted, and the first website in the external links section contains a photo very similar to the first you provided here. Nanonic (talk) 17:53, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Oops, you're right. I saw that picture and didn't move on. I was looking for one exactly like the linked one, and the flickr one. I guess they have different types of cars. Thanks! - cohesion 21:51, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

When did it become necessary to have an escort on this system? I know I rode it unescorted in the early 90's. Rmhermen (talk) 20:57, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

When the government got all paranoid after 9/11. There also was a time when any person could just walk into the Capitol building and take a look around the public spaces like the rotunda and such. Now, there's a new "visitor's center" that is publicly accessable, while the main building is generally closed off to the public (a BAD IDEA in a democracy, if you ask me...). However, I don't think the Capitol Subway system has ever been truly a "public" subway. While I suspect that no one at the time asked you for credentials in order to ride it back then, it's also not like its the sort of subway people just use to travel around DC. Seeing as it is only accessible from the interiors of buildings which themselves have security controls, its likely that only those who have business between the Capitol and one of the congressional office buildings will be riding that subway. If you are in a suit and carrying a briefcase, and look like you know where you are going, its likely no one is going to stop you and ask you a lot of questions... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 21:49, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I can attest that before 9/11, it was very easy for members of the public to wander around and below Capital Hill. The subway system had cars reserved for "members (of Congress) only," and during votes it may have been off-limits to the general public. But I rode on it many times in the mid-90s. A particularly wistful story -- when I was on a high-school trip to DC, I was wandering around the Capitol building trying to get to the rotunda before it closed. A security guard asked me with a wink, "You want to get to the rotunda?" He took me around some back doors and said "Here you go!" I was the only person there. Just me and the dome and the paintings for about five minutes before another security guard came around and said, "Um, you know this is closed, right?" Nowadays they'd probably shoot me on sight. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:02, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

That matches my experience in the '60s; I was just a kid, wandering freely around the Capitol basement (as well as the various office buildings.) Nobody looked at me twice. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 16:14, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

In those days, there were guards to shoo civilians off the trolley so Senators and Representatives could ride. Edison (talk) 07:21, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Imported Oil for India

Does anyone know if India gets imported crude oil? How much imported crude oil does India get? Sonic99 (talk) 17:15, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

List of countries by oil imports says 2 million barrels a day but it's estimated as of 2004 which is quite old. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 18:38, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Where is India getting its crude oil from? Is Burma supplying some crude oil to India?Sonic99 (talk) 21:01, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

India imports around 70% of its crude requirements from around 30 different countries. Of the imports, around 71-72% comes from Middle East, 16-17% from Africa, 4-5% from South and Central America and 4-5% from South East Asia. India does not import import crude from Myanmar, though there are talks to tap its natural gas. Chancemill (talk) 10:55, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

This source (http://www.bp.com/), with a little data manipulation, says production is only 85% of imports. This site (https://sdbs.adb.org/sdbs/index.jsp) says imports were 142.4 million metric tons in 2006. The largest share of imports coming from an OPEC member was from the UAE that year.DOR (HK) (talk) 05:31, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I heard that there are pirates hijacking vessels in the Gulf of Aden. I don't know how far the pirates would go out to the sea to hijack tankers and vessels. Would that have any impact on the price of oil imports in India?Sonic99 (talk) 04:01, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

There will be a definite impact. The premium paid on shipping insurance has shot up due to increasd piracy, and there are reports that liners are actively considering moving around the Cape of Good Hope, instead of moving through the Gulf of Aden and that adds to your shipping cost. Besides, traded oil prices at their sources also went up with the news of Sirius Star being hikacked.

However, if the impact of all this is going to be a $4-5 increase in oil price imports for India, it is still no match for the downward pressure from the economic downturn. Crude is below $50 - and thats one third of what it was three months ago. 220.225.217.2 (talk) 09:42, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Chad

In Chad, what has more native speakers, as a first language, French or Arabic?. Referenced statisics only please.

I strongly expect it to be the same as the neighboring countries. The Christian population will speak French. The Muslim population will speak Arabic. Most of the country is Muslim. Because both French and Arabic are official languages, I suspect that most people speak both fluently. -- kainaw™ 17:34, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

It is actually Chadian Arabic (asked a Nigerian to see if he knew and, surprisingly, we have an article on it). -- kainaw™ 17:36, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure if French is a mother tongue in Chad. Sure it's one of the official languages, but that's something different. -- 93.132.170.2 (talk) 17:28, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Ethnologue figures from the 1993 census give 754,590 native speakers of Chadian Arabic and only 3,000 native speakers of French. According to their figures, Arabic and Ngambay (on which we don't even have an article) both have around 750,000 native speakers, and are the most widely spoken first languages. Warofdreams talk 22:15, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

We have the Ngambay stub now. Best, WikiJedits (talk) 17:31, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Izhevsk

I just saw this picture on the Commons main page, and I was wondering how many faces this building has. But our article Izhevsk has under § Remarkable buildings and structures only a TV mast. Anybody knows more about it? — Sebastian 18:27, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Monetary values compared between 1918 and 2008

I am searching for information about how much $10,000 in 1918 would be worth today. My history students are learning about the alien and sedition act and part of that was a $10,000 fine and 20 years in jail for violations. They asked me how much that would be in today's money. I gave them a guesstimate, but would like to know actual if there is such information available.72.36.61.215 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 19:48, 19 November 2008 (UTC).

According to this [[4]] site, and assuming you mean USD, it would be worth US$218,760 today.NByz (talk) 20:41, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Is that in purchasing power parity or just value compared against a standard like gold? SDY (talk) 20:46, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

It's using DoL CPI, so it would be "changes in the price level of an average urban consumer's basket of goods." NByz (talk) 20:51, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

The problem, there, though, is that the contents of the basket will have changed considerably. How does one compare a 50 pound sack of flour with granola bars ? StuRat (talk) 00:42, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Quality and income disparity (both within and across countries) are major factors in practical measures of inflation using a price index. The most appropriate way of determining how much $10,000 in 1918 would be equivalent to in this context would be to find the average wage of the type of people to whom this law most likely applies. Because hours worked would likely be different, you'd have to include a scaling factor for that (quality of life or labour/leisure tradeoff). Using the ratio of the fine to that adjusted wage as a multiplier, you could scale up the average wage of the person in the equivalent socio-economic group today. Unless I've forgotten anything, I think this should give you a pretty good idea of how a person today would view a fine like that. Lots of data though.NByz (talk) 01:29, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

If you're saying to compare the number of hours worked then for a given amount of money versus now, I can see one problem with that. Whereas now we buy close to 100% of the things we need from our wages, back then many people mostly grew their own food, sewed their own clothes, cooked their own food, built their own houses, bartered with neighbors, etc., so they only earned cash for a few "extras" they couldn't make for themselves. So, let's say you decide that $10,000 is a subsistence wage now, and $100 was back then. That doesn't mean that prices went up 100 times, though, because the $10,000 is to pay for everything you need to live, while the $100 is only for a small portion of the things needed to live, the rest being provided by the non-cash economy. StuRat (talk) 16:07, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Weren't the Alien and Sedition Acts passed in 1798? bibliomaniac15 21:40, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Awami League, Bangladesh Nationalist Party, Indian National Congress, Bharatiya Janata Party, Pakistan Muslim League, Pakistan Peoples Party

Is there a source or a data where it shows how much percentage is when it comes six major political parties in South Asia?: relationship between Awami League and Indian National Congress relationship between Awami League and Bharatiya Janata Party relationship between Awami League and Pakistan Muslim League relationship between Awami League and Pakistan Peoples Party relationship between Bangladesh Nationalist Party and Indian National Congress relationship between Bangladesh Nationalist Party and Bharatiya Janata Party relationship between Bangladesh Nationalist Party and Pakistan Muslim League relationship between Bangladesh Nationalist Party and Pakistan Peoples Party —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.55.4 (talk) 22:49, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Could you elaborate the question a little? Relationship in what sense? comparison of size or bilateral relations between the parties in question? Generally, i think these parties have rather little contact between each other. --Soman (talk) 18:02, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Shia Muslim Pakistan

I know there was a question like this one but it didn't give a full answer with data and stats. I want to know that which branch of Shia Islam do they follow and which provincial capital cities have significant numbers of Shia Muslims? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.55.4 (talk) 22:56, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

In most regions of the Muslim world (other than Yemen), it's fairly safe to assume that the majority of Shi`ites willl be Twelvers... AnonMoos (talk) 11:12, 20 November 2008 (UTC)