Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2015 February 8

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February 8

Soulfly album covers for Dark Ages and Conquer

I can't identify what beings are shown on album cover artwork of Dark Ages and Conquer. I thought it might be a Babylonian or Mesopotamian deity on Dark Ages. For Conquer, it looks like a scary, bear-like monster sporting many limbs holding many weapons. But I couldn't find exactly what creature is depicted on Conquer. I did searching for those, but I couldn't find it. I need to know what beings they're on so I can correctly add info about them to those album pages on Soulfly Wikia. PlanetStar 03:14, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

That first one looks like a Jewish angel of death (like Samael), and the second a Hindu god of destruction (like Kali). But there's also some original work mixed in. Monsters, anyway. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:40, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

I've removed the cover images and put in links to the relevant article pages. We can't use non-free images anywhere except on the pages they apply to. Rojomoke (talk) 07:21, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Kali is a blue-skinned goddess, looking lot different than what is shown on Conquer cover, which has brown fur having more limbs than Kali has. So what is shown on Conquer cover is not Kali, or maybe it is based off of Kali. I agree with Samael more on Dark Ages cover. I added Samael and Kali to Wikia anyway, based from your thought. PlanetStar 02:44, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Given that the figure on the Dark Ages cover is riding something with antlers, I'd also be tempted to say Arawn, or some leader of the Wild Hunt. Samael wasn't commonly depicted in art, and was usually described as another angel (if an unpleasant one) or a demon. The Dark Ages figure is knightly, and possibly has a crown.

Kali is female. The figure on the Conquer cover is probably Hayagriva, Yamantaka, or one of the other Wrathful deities of Buddhism (of which Kali is but one).

Finally, I suspect that the figures probably aren't anyone in particular, they're just meant to look cool; and that if they were meant to represent anyone, there'd be an actual source saying who they're supposed to be. Ian.thomson (talk) 02:59, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, they took some liberties (as a metal cover artist should). Only like Samael and Kali. Maybe Yamantaka, too. I assumed the thing on the Conquer cover is female. It doesn't have breasts, a pretty face or thin arms, but neither does a female bear. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:57, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

For Conquer, I would choose Yamantaka since it is the conquerer of death. That doesn't exactly mean that Conquer cover shows Yamantaka, but a creature made by art that resembles Yamantaka. Hayagriva has the head of a horse, in which the head shown on the cover doesn't look like a horse's head. For Dark Ages cover, I would stick with Samael, since I compared Bing images for Samael and Arawn, determining that Samael looks more like what is shown on Dark Ages cover than Arawn, agreeing with InedibleHulk above. PlanetStar 08:06, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Did you remove depictions of Samael from the later video game Darksiders from your search? The oldest depiction of Samael is the "form of a lion-faced serpent." Eliezer ben Hurcanus also described Samael as the serpent in the Garden of Eden, and Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa associated him with Typhon (source: Gustav Davidson, "Samael" in Dictionary of Angels, p. 225). Other depictions were typically angelic or demonic until the current era. Yes, Samael was the angel of death, but other than that there's no really connection to the figure on the album cover (who appears to be some sort of deathly king or knight, not angel -- an important distinction). The skull in the middle of the album appears to be the head of a mount, and the fringes to the side appear to be its antlers, which would fit a Wild Hunt motif (the leader of the Wild Hunt is usually the king of the underworld, and may ride a deer, reindeer, or something else with antlers). The Wild Hunt factored into "Dark Ages" mythologies (late Celtic, Germanic, etc) more than Samael did (Samael mainly appeared in Jewish folklore at the time).

Also, image searches are just generally a bad idea for identifying legendary figures, because you're mostly looking at depictions that come from after those albums were released, or depictions that the album artist were not aware of. Traditional motifs are a better source. Ian.thomson (talk) 17:27, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I'd actually guessed Samael based on the death angel Malthael from Diablo 3. A bit too modern, perhaps. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:00, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm getting the point now in accepting that Dark Ages cover looks more like a knight than an angel, based from the history of depictions in arts. The knight appears to be surrounded by somethings that look like tusks and feathers. It appears that the creature he is riding on is wolf-like with antlers. You can take a look after making changes to a Wikia article in response. PlanetStar 05:50, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

A Change of Complexion

This is apparently the first Pat Powers production, but how did whoever wrote that know this, and not know so much else? What sort of source has only a release date, genre, title and producer? InedibleHulk (talk) 04:31, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Found one just saying it was completed in October 1909, from 1994. Didn't get the result with the same search terms yesterday, though. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:02, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Minnie Pearl

Minnie Pearl was inducted into the National Comedy Hall of Fame on April 16, 1994 before a live audience at the Grand Ole Opry in Nashville, TN. Hosted by Ralph Emery, with special guest Tony Belmont the President of the National Comedy Hall Of Fame. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.200.214.212 (talk) 10:24, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Hoooooow-dee! So... What's you question? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:27, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

I imagine the OP would like this information added to the Minnie Pearl article - they can do it themselves if they can provide a reliable source for it. However, we do not have an article on the National Comedy Hall Of Fame - the organization exists (here is its website), but doesn't appear to have much in the way of national (American), let alone global, significance. See this New York Times article for some pertinent comments. Tevildo (talk) 19:51, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

In a perfect world, a reliable source would be nice. But as it stands, not much already there is sourced, either. That certainly doesn't make it alright, but it makes it seem alright. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:52, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Dyan Cannon

Her given name was either "Samille Diane Friesen" or "Samile Diane Friesen". Googlebooks prefers one "l" by 49 to 20 - our article uses both. Is there a definitive source? All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 14:21, 8 February 2015 (UTC).

Going back to Harlan

In WP-article Emmylou Harris appearances - listing "appearances that Emmylou Harris has contributed to" - I find the song named "Going back to Harlan" listed as her own song (according to column 2, Songwriter). But in the article about Emmylou I find this quote: Wrecking Ball, produced by Daniel Lanois (...), an experimental album for Harris, the record included (...) Kate and Anna McGarrigle's "Goin' Back to Harlan".

So I haven't found the answers I was looking for: Who wrote the song? It's not easy to search the net, as other sites disagree just as much, picking randomly one for the other. My other question, not as easy to find an answer to: No matter who wrote the song, where is this Harlan? I have actually been to Harlan, KY and found it a nice place, but of course there are far more than one Harlan. Does any of those Harlans relate to either Harris or the McGarrigles? TorSch (talk) 18:25, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

(posted elsewhere, reposted here TorSch (talk) 19:20, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

and I got a helping hint: )

@TorSch: Have you tried WP:RD/E? They specialise in questions like this. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:02, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Anna McGarrigle, according to the McGarrigles. I see no particular reason to disbelieve them. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:53, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you so much, Tagishsimon. As a result I got to correct the entry in Emmylou Harris appearances, though honestly I failed to give a solid reference for the correction. But more, I found a contact address for Anna McGarrigle / staff, so I just may get an answer to the second question from the artist herself! TorSch (talk) 21:23, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

"Found it a nice place" From Harlan, Kentucky article: " 32.4% of the population were below the poverty line, including 40.0% of those under age 18". So some of the residents might not agree. Rmhermen (talk) 22:14, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Poor =/= not nice. Niceness is not quantified by income level. --Jayron32 23:38, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Real world information about The Joker

I've been trying to expand this article for like two years. I've bought books where possible and feel that I've got to a good place on publication, character, history, etc, but I am seriously struggling on real world impact sources, homages, parodies, toys, merchandising, influences, etc. Searching Google for "The Joker" doesn't really yield beneficial results, even tagging "merchandising" onto the end doesn't really help, it's more likely to bring up places to buy things than sourcable information. Does anyone have any good places to search for these kind of things or books they could scan relevant parts of with useful info? I've already got "A Visual History of the CLown Prince of Crime".

Thanks for reading. Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 22:28, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

The page could use a link to Trickster, IMO (the ancient god concept, not the other comic character). That's not a very proximal source of inspiration, but surely and influence nonetheless! You could probably crib some sources from and also make some links to Batman_action_figures. Here's a fun little collection of financial stats for Batman media [1]. I also found this specifically about the Joker getting a boost in sales when that one guy died. [2]. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:53, 9 February 2015 (UTC)