Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2017 September 23

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September 23

Error checking software for Hard Drive(s)

Error checking required for my drives, they are way to big (over 1TB each) and will take far too long normally. Partitioning is impossible. What I require is a "Play|Pause" (start from where it was last left) button function, - if you know what I mean - an opensource software that I could use even after I restart my PC the next day or so... Could someone help me please. 103.67.156.38 (talk) 02:42, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Have you tried running your existing checks when you are asleep ? Can't it complete in that time ? StuRat (talk) 03:21, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

A proper check of a 1TB+ drive takes time, and nothing you do can change that. That's a billion bytes. A billion seconds ago, the first Blockbuster Video rental outlet opened in Dallas, Bill Watterson introduced us to Calvin and Hobbes, the first dot com domain name was registered, and Microsoft Corporation released the first version of Windows, Windows 1.0.

Also, you won't be happy trying to do something else on a PC that is running a really comprehensive disk test program.

You can pick up a used PC for less than $100 including shipping: https://www.amazon.com/Refurbished-Optiplex-DVD-Rom-Windows-Professional/dp/B01CZ2OK4C/

Buy one, put your drive in it, and run TestDisk: http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk

Let it run until the testing is done. --Guy Macon (talk) 05:33, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

It's a lot of work to move a hard drive from one device to another, unless it's an external drive, and the risk of damage makes this unwise unless necessary. In a laptop, it may not even be allowed. StuRat (talk) 14:38, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

If it's not a laptop or some weird difficult to access OEM computer, it's maybe 5-10 minutes if you know what you're doing. I guess this is a lot of work to you, but to the rest of us, this is less time than I'm sure the OP has spent with their many, many questions asking for random software. As for damage, again if you know what you're doing the risk is minimal.

The biggest risk by far is actually running the check, although that just means the disk should be binned or RMAed anyway. That said, I'm not sure if I agree that a PC is unusable when it's running a comprehensive disk test program. Unless you're doing something really intensive, if you aren't actually trying to use the disk, and if you have a decent multi core processor and RAM, you're not likely to notice nowadays. An exception is if there's really something physically wrong, in that case slow downs can sometimes affect the whole system (although often not). But in that case I don't see a point checking, just get the data off it if you actually need to then either RMA or bin the drive. (Getting the data off may be where having a second computer will be useful.)

I'd note that for a 1TB disk, if it's IO limited it'll take maybe 2-3 hours to read the whole disk. If it's not IO limited, what exactly are you concerned about and testing? If it's a file system issue, that may take a while but it shouldn't have to read the whole disk. If you want to read and write, the whole disk, you can maybe double to triple that. Ideally of course you should just clear the disk in which case the writing and read steps can be separate.

If you're leaving the data there, remember what I said earlier, if there really is a physical problem and you need the data and don't have a backup, doing this could easily mean further damage. You really should be getting the data off ASAP, so concentrate on that first before worrying about checking the disk. And then next time make sure you have backups do don't have to do this again.

Nil Einne (talk) 15:31, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

5-10 minutes ? Let's look at some of the steps required:

0) Power down both PCs, unplug all the cables and power cords from them, and place them where they can be opened up. (It's a good idea to label where each cord goes, as sometimes there are multiple seemingly compatible ports, only some of which work.) Ensure a bright light source you can direct into each case, such as a gooseneck lamp or bright flashlight. (You could also leave the mice, keyboard, monitors, etc., connected, and only unplug the power cord, but that may impede your ability to move it all to an area where you can open up the case. If you are lucky enough to have it all where you can open it up and work on it to begin with, as opposed to jammed under a desk, then good for you, I'd love to have room for that setup.)

1) Open both cases. This often requires removing screws (usually needs a Phillips head screwdriver of the proper shape and size), and sometimes a key is needed and/or there are levers to depress or turn simultaneously.

2) Ground yourself to prevent electrical damage from static electricity to any of the sensitive equipment.

3) Move anything out of the way which is blocking the source or destination drive bays. In a densely packed PC this can require pulling cards out, etc. In a less densely packed PC you may still need to tie back some cables which are in the way (requires wire ties).

4) Remove the data and power cables. Not always easy, in my experience, since they lack good handles to pull on, often requiring needle-nose pliers. The removed data and power cables should then be tagged, so you don't confuse them with all the other unplugged data and power cables likely to be present.

5) Remove any screws holding the hard drive into the drive bay. Carefully store these screws separately from the case screws, as they may be different sizes. I suggest magnetic trays, placed a safe distance from the PC.

6) Remove the hard drive from the old PC, carefully transport the hard drive to the new bay and insert it into position (if there was already a hard disk there you would first need to remove it, following all the steps listed previously, and being careful not to remove the boot drive).

7) Secure the hard disk in the new bay with screws (you could skip the screws if it's only temporary and you are careful not to jostle this PC during that time).

8) Plug in the power and data cables to the hard drive, very carefully, to avoid bending any pins. This assumes that this PC has compatible cables and that the wattage limit from the power supply has not been exceeded.

9) Jumper settings may need to be changed, review the documentation.

10) Close the cases. You can skip the screws if it's just temporary.

11) Plug all the cables back into the two PCs. If the PC to be used to run the drive checks didn't already have a mouse, keyboard, and monitor connected, you will need to do so now, although you really should have done so before starting this process, just to ensure that everything was working. Optionally, you may want to connect other devices, such as external speakers.

12) Attempt to boot both PCs, and see if they boot and if the new hard drive is accessible (and it may not be obvious which drive letter is the new drive, if it even has a drive letter assigned, requiring you to check the properties of each for manufacturer, GBs, etc.). Many errors are possible here, some of which will just give you a series of beeps instead of any visual feedback, so then you will need to go online to determine what those beeps mean. For example, if you nudged a RAM chip out of position, it may not boot.

13) Now you can attempt to run the hard drive check on the one PC while using the other.

14) Repeat all these steps, in reverse, to put everything back the way it was.

Presumably you aren't including step 13, and maybe 14, in your 5-10 minute estimate, but steps 0-12 sound like far more than that, to me. You would need to perform each step in under 30 seconds to finish in 5 minutes, and in under a minute each to finish in 10 minutes. If you have a video of you doing this, without cuts, in that time, I'd love to see it (not like a cooking show where all the ingredients are already prepared, and they just pour them into a pot on camera, then they cut to when it is done). StuRat (talk) 16:32, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

WTF changes jumper settings on hard disk in the past 10 years? (I mean seriously, IIRC by 2005 SATA hard disks were generally cheaper than PATA ones. Also we're talking about a 1TB HD here. And does the computer suggested by Guy Macon even have a PATA port*?) WTF uses needle nose plies to remove SATA power and data connectors? (And incidentally, WTF do you have multiple unused SATA data connectors in your computer and WTF do you care which SATA power connector you plug the disk into?) WTF do you need to remove all external connectors, let alone label them? You're just removing the hard disk, not doing anything major, if you really can't do it in-situ then fine but you should not need to label anything. I read all these three highly flawed suggestions and stopped reading. Clearly you don't know what you are doing, so you should not be giving advice on such matters. I explicitly said this only applies to people who know what they are doing and also explicitly said it doesn't apply to difficult to access OEM computers (e.g. anything which you will need to remove a card to simply remove a hard disk). * = seems that it does [1]. If you really are using a PATA 1TB drive then maybe you can add a few more minutes, especially if there isn't a PATA cable plugged into the second computer, I'll give you that as something I didn't specify. Nil Einne (talk) 12:58, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

The "used PC for under $100" might indeed be over 10 years old. I've also seen lots of PCs with some non-functional ports, such as USBs, or some that provide limited functionality, such as an HDMI port without full audio support, so it's a good idea to label which port you unplugged from to avoid any unexpected problems. Another difficulty I should mention is in plugging the display and power cables into the monitor on the backup PC for the first time. I have monitors (Phillips 32PFL5708/F7) with the PC inputs on the bottom of the back, and recessed, so it is necessary to turn the monitor upside down to plug them in. This absolutely horrid design requires me to balance them, upside down, say between pillows, to avoid damage, when plugging anything in. If anyone made the mistake of mounting these monitors on the wall before plugging them in, they would also need to be dismounted first (I use stands instead of wall mounts to make them somewhat more accessible). Also, if you pulled a wireless mouse and/or keyboard out of a drawer to use with the backup PC, you may need to change batteries. The backup PC may also want to run a slew of updates and/or complain about expired or missing licenses.

For these and many other reasons, this approach is a bad idea. Just run the disk check at night, when asleep, and be done with it. This will require far less of the user's time than swapping hard drives. And ever heard the saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" ? This applies in a major way to PC repair. Every time you open up the box there is a risk of damaging something, say if you didn't ground yourself properly and a static spark hits a sensitive electrical component. If you have a good reason to do so, then it's worth the risk, but not when it's not needed, as in this scenario.

The need to remove the external cables is that you typically will only be able to move the box a few inches before you will reach the limit of motion of some cord or the other, and possibly pull the monitor off the table in the attempt. This is especially true if you're a neatnik who has used cable ties to keep all the cables neat, as this limits their ability to move freely. As for me knowing what I'm talking about, I've done many disk swaps, admittedly years ago, but it sounds to me like you haven't done any in the real world, since you don't seem to know that PCs are likely to be under a desk or under a monitor, on a crowded desk, where there's just no room to work on them. Perhaps you have some type of a lab where they are all laid out on large empty tables with plenty of room to work. StuRat (talk) 15:50, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

• @103.67.156.38 . Suggest you find out the manufacturer and version of your drives then google around for the manufacture's own diagnostic tools (which should be free to down load). Especially taking note of the advice for your type of Operating System. Reason being, is me thinks, if it takes that long you aren't using Linux but Microsoft. Think about it. Microsoft operating systems insist that all background applications continue to run and thus will keep interrupting the check in oder keep accessing the drive and keep monitoring all the ports and all that short of stuff. 'You' need to shut them down yourself and also disable power management controls, otherwise it will notice your not actively using the keyboard and wiggling your mouse or scrolling thus repeatedly try to shut down to low power mode. These background task on Microsoft systems take up far more time by the order of several magnitudes than the drive checks themselves. Also, with the manufactures software they should give the option of short and fast checks, drive health diagnostics etc. My checks happen over night but I think Linux can check a terabyte in about 90 minutes. If I'm wrong, I will shortly be corrected here. Aspro (talk) 16:00, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Oh! a last thought. Haven't tried it for a while. Yet you could download a 'Live' Linux flavor on to a pen-drive and check the disks via that - without having to run Microsoft. Puppy Linux is good for sorting out problems with HDD's and very quick to download. The check should go very much faster with that little rascal in your USB. Aspro (talk) 16:20, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Not likely. If you're simply reading the entire hard disk, you will be physically IO limited whether on Windows or *nix. There is no magic here. For a 1 TB hard disk, 90 minutes is simply not realistic. To read 1TB in that time, your HD will need an average transfer speed of ~186MBb/s. This is one of the fastest HDs out there [2]. Yet even it can only achieve an average 179MB/s over the whole disk. Now if short stroke it, you will have a higher average speed and some 1TBs may be short stroked, but they'll often also have lower platter densities. New 1TB hard disks in the 3.5" category are fairly rare anyway. So more likely you'll get maybe 150MB/s or lower.

Incidentally, you recommend manufacturer tools then bring up *nix. There are only two manufacturers of 3.5" hard disks that survive, Seagate and Western Digital. SeaTools for DOS hasn't been updated since 2010. It may still work particularly on a SATA drive or obviously with an old computer like that recommended by Guy Macon above but I wouldn't guarantee it. If you have compatibility problems, SeaTools for Windows is your only option, and no it will not be slower unless there's something majorly messed up with your computer or if you're trying to check an use drive (especially a system drive).

Western Digital is updating their Data Lifeguard Diagnostics for DOS [3] [4] although I'm not sure how well they've kept up with compatibility especially for USB. Again, whether you use the Windows version or DOS version, you should not expect significant speed differences unless you're trying to test an in use drive, or there's something majorly wrong with your computer. (Or I should mention also if it's USB3 on a USB3 controller but limited to high speed probably because of some DOS compatibility issue.)

Mind you nowadays the manufacturer tools don't tend to do that much special except perhaps give you an RMA code. The extended/long test is simply part of S.M.A.R.T.. Likewise, for the SMART values, from my experience it's often actually better to use better SMART utilities which can keep track of changes. The manufacturer tools tend to just give you a pass or fail. So generally, there's nothing wrong with using the manufacturer tools (and actually I normally do that myself for the tests, but not the SMART values), but they often don't actually give you that much more than other tools. So if you did want to use something else on *nix, Windows or whatever, go ahead just don't expect it to be any faster. The main things which are semi unique from the manufacturer tools are stuff like checking for new firmware (which for SeaTools and I think WD requires the Windows version because it simply sends you to the website) or maybe the few feature controls (especially short stroking) unrelated to diagnostics.

Nil Einne (talk) 12:45, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

If the OP has a Seagate, Samsung, LaCie or Maxtor drive then this may help. How to use SeaTools for Windows. Aspro (talk) 12:25, 24 September 2017 (UTC)