Wikipedia:Peer review/You Only Live Twice (novel)/archive1

You Only Live Twice (novel)

The Bond novel You Only Live Twice was written when Fleming was at a low point in his life - court cases, health issues and ongoing unhappiness in his marriage - and he was running out of energy and enthusiasm for writing more stories. The novel itself is largely taken up with travelogue descriptions of Japan and its culture, and the main element withing it - Bond v Blofeld - only takes up around 30 pages at the end. This has been through a major rewrite recently and a run at FAC is envisioned after this. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 16:24, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Placeholder. @SchroCat I will go through the article before I get any comments here. Regards. MSincccc (talk) 17:54, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

@SchroCat Could you please wait till Friday before archiving this PR discussion? Meanwhile, I will try to wrap up my suggestions for the article. I have been busy lately. Looking forward to your response. Regards. MSincccc (talk) 17:43, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Lead

• The story was serialised in the Daily Express newspaper, where it was also adapted for comic strip format, and in Playboy magazine. Avoids repeating the term "The Daily Express" and provides a smoother flow.

Only this much for the lead. I will reach out to you with other suggestions (if any) later. Regards. MSincccc (talk) 11:41, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. - SchroCat (talk) 12:08, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

@SchroCat I have nothing much to comment upon at the time being. It will be great to have it at FAC. Just ping me once you have listed the article there, and I will let you know of any further suggestions (if any at all). Regards. MSincccc (talk) 13:30, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

UC

Will probably do some more detailed feedback later, but for now a copyright query on File:The Times masthead.svg. It claims to be PD UK because it is more than seventy years after the death of the artist -- I don't know who designed it, but I suspect that we'd have to apply this to the strict version of the masthead depicted here (that is, the precise details of font, drawing etc, not the simple and long-running form of the words and the coat of arms). Its US PD is more dubious -- the uploader claims to have released it into the public domain, but I'm not sure how they would have had authority to do so, unless we have some very high-up News UK execs in our midst. The caption is also a bit windy over the two clauses: if you do end up keeping it (or swapping it for something else), I'd suggest splitting into two sentences, the second being "Fleming had to ask the newspaper for permission to use it..." UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 18:20, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi UC, I think it probably is okay, but it's not really terribly germane to the article, so I'll take it out. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 19:59, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

• I think you had a footnote in another article to explain the discrepancy between the number of books and the number of novels: suggest cloning that here.
• the last Fleming novel published in his lifetime -> the last novel Fleming published in his lifetime?
• The novel deals on a personal level with the change in Bond from an emotionally shattered man in mourning, to a man of action bent on revenge, to an amnesiac living as a Japanese fisherman.: I would cut on a personal level here -- I found this sentence difficult going with the series of clauses.
• the decline of post-Second World War British power and influence, notably in relation to the United States: do you mean particularly?
• the author Ian Fleming had published ten books: could cut the author as tautological, given had published ten books.
• Towards the end of February 1963 he wrote to his friend and copyeditor William Plomer "I have completed Opus XII save for 2 or 3 pages and am amazed that the miracle should have managed to repeat itself — the 65,000 odd words that is, and pretty odd some of them are!": before such a long quotation, I would put a colon, but this is a matter of taste and readability rather than strictly a grammar question.

  I tend to view colons before quotes as a more American trait, but I'm not entirely opposed to them. Tim riley: would you colon or not here? - SchroCat (talk) 06:33, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

  Brace yourself for woolly and boring response. Yes, I agree that in a plain sentence such as Tim said "It's a nice day" AmE use would favour a colon; BrE would usually have a comma, though for short sentences like that there's no need for a stop at all. For the long quote here, though, I'm with UC. A colon would help the reader's eye along, I think. And perhaps have look at the current Fowler, p. 678. Tim riley talk 12:51, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

  I shall add a colon, but the advice from the new Fowler is awful, and I look forward to ignoring the creeping Americanisation. I suspect HWF wouldn't agree, but there we go. - SchroCat (talk) 13:01, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

• the matter was complicated by the presence of the royal coat of arms.: any idea of how that story finished -- did someone have to get royal signoff?

  It's not covered at all, unfortunately. Technically the royal arms would have been out of copyright (under the 1938 TM Act), so permission wouldn't have been needed is it were being used in a book. I can only think that the legal departments of Cape and the Times arranged it between them, or possibly they may have felt obliged to get sign off from someone - the archives at Ca1pe probably hold that particular secret - SchroCat (talk) 06:33, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

• You Only Live Twice is the last book completed by Fleming before his death and the last that was published in his lifetime: I think this is more natural as was the last book, as Fleming completed it in the past tense (compare "you were the last person to see him alive").

  Both are correct, I think, depending on the subject and where one wants the focus to go. - SchroCat (talk) 06:33, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

• the least revised of all Fleming's novels: what exactly does this mean?
• partly as a result of the recent news that he had, at most, five years to live: suggest we explain why this was, at least briefly. It's germane that he had recently had a major heart attack, too, I think.

  I've added the heart attack. While the rest of the reasons also explain his melancholia, they're too involved to summarise here (his sister-in-law dying; his brother-in-law was ill, his wife's lover, Hugh Gaitskell, died while the book was being written, etc.) All good info for the full-scale books, but a bit OTT for this article, I think. Please let me know if you disagree though.

  I think the fact that he was upset because his wife's lover -- and that he was Hugh Gaitskell! -- had recently died is so wonderful that I'd take any excuse possible to shoehorn it in, but you may be a more responsible writer than I am. No objections to any of your replies here -- all the best with the article. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 10:39, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

  "Upset" may not be the right word here; Lycett refers to the situation as "complicated". Although the two men got on (Gaitskell enjoyed the Bond novels and he and Fleming corresponded), they were not necessarily friends. Anne Fleming was with Ian in Jamaica when Gaitskell died, and his death hit her hard, which impacted on the mood in the house - as well as another reminder of mortality for Fleming with his 'five years or less' left of life. "Complicated" is definitely the right word for it! - SchroCat (talk) 07:03, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks, UC. All attended to, except where commented on. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 06:33, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Comments from TR

• Lead

• "The story begins eight months after the murder of Tracy Bond" – perhaps as well to say here that she was JB's wife?

• Plot

• "convincing the head of Japan's secret intelligence service, Tiger Tanaka, to share..." – in the King's English one does not convince to: one convinces that or persuades to.
• "After surviving a near execution" – What is a near execution? (Shades of The Mikado: I don’t see how a man can cut off his own head./A man might try/Even if you only succeeded in cutting it half off, that would be something).

• Background and writing history

• "wrote to his friend and copyeditor William Plomer" – the OED makes "copy editor" two separate words, unhyphenated.
• "the presence of the royal coat of arms" – heraldry buffs will object to that: the coat of arms is just the shield. The Times's masthead is the royal arms tout court.
• "it was the one that had least revisions prior to publication" – "fewest revisions", perhaps?
• "Bond's personality in the book was altered by the screen persona, compared to the previous books; Fleming took the elements of humour in Sean Connery's filmic depiction of Bond and added them to You Only Live Twice giving Bond a sense of humour and a more relaxed manner" – The second part of the sentence makes all plain, but the first part had me going back to the beginning to try to make sense of it. I think you want something on the lines of "Bond's personality in the book, compared with that in the previous novels, was altered by his screen persona".

Afterthought: perhaps better and briefer: "Bond's personality had developed from that in the earlier novels;" and then "Fleming took the elements ..." or some such. Tim riley talk 12:46, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

• "although his visit only lasted for three days." – I don't believe in the superstitions about the placement of "only" but when, as here, it is convenient to do so I follow the pedantic path, and would write "although his visit lasted for only three days.." or even omit the "for": "his visit lasted only three days".
• "Like his first trip" – "As in his first trip" would be grammatically correct.

• Inspirations

• "a Swiss girl from Vich in the canton of Vaud, who Fleming was engaged to" – "to whom", please.

• Characters

• "following the death of his wife Tracy " – perhaps "murder" rather than just "death" here?
• "purportedly written for The Times by M. Fleming" – The reader – this reader at any rate – wonders who M. Fleming was. You'll really have to rejig these two sentences. Perhaps something on the lines of "purportedly written by M. for The Times".
• "Samurai armour, of the type Blofeld would have been dressed" – missing a word?

• Release and reception

• "62,000 pre-orders for the book, a significant increase " – what did it signify? You mean "considerable" or some such.

That's all from me. Tim riley talk 09:58, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks for these - all extremely useful. I’ll pop this into FAC in a week, when I’m back from my travels. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 16:25, 18 August 2024 (UTC)