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The President (novel) edit

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I've listed this article for peer review because it has passed GA and has an active group of editors who could take it to FA: see Wikipedia:WikiProject Murder Madness and Mayhem.

Thanks, Wassupwestcoast (talk) 00:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ruhrfisch comments: I will review this later today. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 19:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I like the Background section, but I think a bit more context is needed in places - see WP:PCR. For example, from reading it is clear Estrada Cabrera left office in 1920 and faced trial afterwards, but exactly what happened is unclear - how was he forced to stand trial?

I've clarified this. --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 06:59, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Awkward sentence, maybe break into two: Gregory Rabassa, a biographer of Asturias, also supports the notion that Asturias's fictional leader, the President, was shaped by Manuel Estrada Cabrera because of Austurias's personal observations of Estrada Cabrera, with whom he came into almost daily contact while working as legal secretary to the court that tried the dictator.[6]

This now reads:Gregory Rabassa, a biographer of Asturias, also argues that Asturias's fictional leader—the President—was shaped by Estrada Cabrera.[8] Asturias worked as a legal secretary at the court which tried the dictator. Rabassa confirms that that Austurias made personal observations of the ruler during this time as he was in almost daily contact with him.[8]--Mfreud (talk) 06:41, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to have another go at this. I don't think we can have such short, staccato sentences the whole time! --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 06:59, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Since the novel was published in Mexico, how did the political situation in Guatemala prevent its publication previously (presumably because the author lived there, but make this clearer please)
Plot summary needs more references - try for at least one ref per paragraph.

I have added a reference per paragraph, hopefully this makes the summary clearer.--Katekonyk (talk) 21:34, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Awkward sentence: When Colonel Jose Parrales Sonriente, a loyal military man of the President, jeers "mother" at him,... perhaps When Colonel Jose Parrales Sonriente, one of the President's loyal military men, says "mother" jeeringly to him,...? Try reading the article aloud to find these.

This sentence is hopefully fixed.--Katekonyk (talk) 21:34, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unclear: Genero de Rodas returns home and discusses the event with his wife... Which event - the orginal murder or that of the Zany (or something else)?

I have clarified this event as the killing of the Zany.--Katekonyk (talk) 21:34, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have not read the novel and had some problems following the plot summary. I would read WP:IN-U to make sure it is written from an out of universe perspective. Perhaps identifying some of the main characters more by their roles as well as their names would help (i.e. the General's daughter)?
Need a ref for The fact that the novel's title character, the President, is never named gives him a mythological dimension, rather than the personality of a specific Guatemalan dictator.

Done! :)--Mfreud (talk) 06:41, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean Mystery also abounds [as to] when and how he sleeps.?

This now reads: Mystery also surrounds the questions of when and how he sleeps--Mfreud (talk) 06:46, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Scholar Franklin..." is a strange name to use, also Scholar Hughes Davies - I would prefer Professor or Literary critic to "scholar" here.

I have changed both to literary critic--Mfreud (talk) 06:46, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the Dictator novel section I would swap the first and second paragraphs to flow better

I agree, I switched it and it definitely sounds better.--Katekonyk (talk) 21:34, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

El Señor Presidente is repeated at least five times in the first paragraph of the Style section

I have changed a few of these to avoid this repition--Mfreud (talk) 16:42, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is it clear to readers that the President's country is Guatemala or could it be any Latin American country? Either way, should this be mentioned?

it is both... is that okay?--Mfreud (talk) 06:47, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hope this helps, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 21:17, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cryptic C62 edit

The General Eusebio Canales section has no citations require citations
Avoid using weasel phrases, such as "Given Macune's assertions, it is clear that El Señor Presidente has been well received not only in its original Spanish form but also in its English translation."

I have removed the phrase "it is clear that" and the sentence now reads, Macune affirms that El Señor Presidente has been well received not only in its original Spanish form but also in its English translation

And I've changed this to the simpler "shows." --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 06:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The first paragraph "Reality vs. dream" focuses not on reality, but on fear. The final quote by Eckart is a shoddy attempt to connect the fear discussion to the reality discussion.

I have elaborated on why fear is important to this section, because it is also used to distort reality. I hope this makes it more clear why we focus on fear for the first paragraph because it is a tool used by the dictatorship to blur the lines between reality and truth and therefore we use it as evidence that reality and dream are blurred together.--Katekonyk (talk) 17:46, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Hope and love" is a misleading title for that section. The analysis is unbalanced, as there is a disproportionately large discussion of hope compared to the discussion of love.
In the Nobel Prize section, it mentions that "he received a medal". Which medal?

This is not clear in the reliable sources we have read, I am guessing it is an honorary medal presented by the Government of Guatemala for his achievements, but since I cannot be sure or cite this, i did not specify. Is that ok? Or what can I do to fix it?--Mfreud (talk) 05:56, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Try to find what the name of the medal was. If your sources are really as ambiguous as you say they are, there's nothing you can really do about it. Either way, I would back up the phrase "he received a medal" with at least two citations given its ambiguity.

Gregory Rabassa comes up twice within the article. The first time, he is described as a biographer. The second time, he is given the title of "professor". A concise description of Rabassa should be offered all at once. Also, if you choose to label him as a professor, you should include his field and university.\

Fixed, he is a biographer so that has been changed.--Mfreud (talk) 05:56, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

One of the citations, "Magic Realism in Spanish American Literature" is listed as being retrieved on 29. A two-digit number is not a date format with which I am familiar.

I believe this is fixed now, the date was supposed to be March 29, 2008--Mfreud (talk) 05:53, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Eckart's paper discusses both El Señor Presidente and Sara und Simon. If this paper draws connections between the two stories, or even the two authors, consider discussing this connection within the article.

What do you mean by this? Wouldn't discussing Sara und Simon on a page about the President novel be off-topic? Perhaps I am not understanding what you mean?--Mfreud (talk) 05:49, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The title of Eckart's paper, as listed in the references, is "Latin American Dictatorship in Erich Hackl's Sara und Simon and Miguel Asturias's El Señor Presidente". Why was the paper written about the two books? If it was two separate discussions on two separate novels, then Sara und Simon is irrelevant. But if it discussed common themes or social impact between the two books, you should consider discussing that in the article. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 19:48, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I agree that going into the comparison, while no doubt important for the article cited, would be losing focus here. --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 17:16, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

More comments:

"In the novel, rumors fly..." from The President. Not very encyclopedic tone.

This now reads: In the novel, rumors abound...--Mfreud (talk) 06:29, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"General Eusebio Canales finds himself forced to flee into exile..." from General Eusebio Canales. Very wordy and alliterative. Couldn't it just be "Canales is forced into exile"?

Done, thanks for the suggestion--Mfreud (talk) 06:23, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Camila is first rescued by Miguel Angel Face..." from Camila. Does this mean it is the first event in the book, the first event involving Camila, or the first time she is rescued?

I have removed the word first to avoid confusion and hopefully the sentence is clearer now.

The phrase "magic realism" occurs three times as "magical realism." I'm fairly certain the former is correct. Either way, it should be consistent.

Both are found, and are equally correct. You're right that we should be consistent. --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 21:07, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gerald Martin is referred to as a "literary critic" and later as a "Latin Americanist literary scholar". Which is it?

Both (and the two are hardly very distinct). I think the idea here is to avoid too much repetition. --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 21:07, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Asturias first wrote El Señor Presidente in response to the dictatorial rule of Manuel Estrada Cabrera, but thanks in part to the long delay in the book's writing and publication, as well as to the fact that it never names its eponymous President, by the time it eventually appeared it could equally be taken to apply to the subsequent regime of Jorge Ubico." A very long snake! Consider cutting it apart. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 20:43, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This now reads: Asturias first wrote El Señor Presidente in response to the dictatorial rule of Manuel Estrada Cabrera. Due to both the long delay in the book's writing and publication, as well as to the fact that it never names its eponymous President, many scholars have noted that it could equally be taken to apply to the subsequent regime of Jorge Ubico.--Mfreud (talk) 06:32, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]